How is the tier list made?

[fade2black001]

What are the determining factors that make one better than the other? I am asking this as I am shocked to see that my PSU an EVGA 750w G3 is listed as tier B (budget), while the G2 is a couple of steps above that and even the G1+ is rated above a G3. From all the research and reviews I have read I got the impression that the G3 was better than the G2. So I am confused here.

[Oalei]

G3 and G2 is kinda the same platform (Leadex II) but G2 have a bit better component load regulation seems the same, on the other hand G1+ is a completely different PSU that is just better thats the only thing i can explain, there is still some others that can tell you more info on it.

[hello_there_123]

(should be) components, protections, topology, noise/fan bearings, performance, compatibility issues (cough cough focus) etc.

 

reality is a completely different thing, though...

[LukeSavenije]

3 minutes ago, hello_there_123 said:

components, protections, topology, noise/fan bearings, performance, compatibility issues (cough cough focus) etc.

and other problems, correct

 

the g3 is a leadex ii based unit, but shorter. the problem with it is that the g3 had 1/5 die in overpower testing, and a second going outside of atx spec. that's why we chose for tier b

 

g2 and g3 have a high opp tripping point, but that's outside the question here

[LukeSavenije]

20 minutes ago, Oalei said:

G3 and G2 is kinda the same platform (Leadex II)

nope, leadex for the g2

[Oalei]

22 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

nope, leadex for the g2

Oh OK seems like I'm kinda confused between the 2. 

[-The_Mask-]

It's quite difficult to spot the differences between Leadex and Leadex II, the differences are really small. Differences between a standard Leadex II and EVGA SuperNOVA G3 look a lot bigger, because the changes in layout, the PCB is much smaller. 

 

About the tier list, it should be rated the way hello_there_123 described. 

40 minutes ago, hello_there_123 said:

components, protections, topology, noise/fan bearings, performance

But at the end it's like any other PSU tier list, quite random. 

[LukeSavenije]

33 minutes ago, -The_Mask- said:

But at the end it's like any other PSU tier list, quite random. 

ah, i see you made it here... 

 

still with no show of evidence... and we're currently working on revision 1.25 with single rail high wattage downgraded...

 

but you can always contact me, as you know

[-The_Mask-]

25 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

ah, i see you made it here... 

 

still with no show of evidence...

 

Sure I did, the real question is what did you do with it?

 

25 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

and we're currently working on revision 1.25 with single rail high wattage downgraded...

You shouldn't focus one one, two or maybe three thing only. If you something like that the list is gonna be random again. Always rate a product as a whole. 

 

Example, you have two high-end power supplies that are quite comparable overal. Like all products they aren't perfect. Both have like two downsides, but because the tier list is only focust on some problems one ends up two tiers lower even if they are comparable. 

[LukeSavenije]

10 minutes ago, -The_Mask- said:

Sure I did, the real question is what did you do with it?

let's see

 

earthwatts gold is in tier a, which is focus based, the platinum is in c, where it should be. raider is also group, raider ii is soon to be moved to tier b. aurum pt is dc-dc

 

that was the one example you gave

20 minutes ago, -The_Mask- said:

You shouldn't focus one one, two or maybe three thing only. If you something like that the list is gonna be random again. Always rate a product as a whole. 

do you see the point of the list? it's a quick guide to not choose some random psu from a known company. it's a baseline for buying, because most people simply don't want to read through a whole guide, or simply don't understand them. there's a reason we started on renewing it.

 

willing to talk further in dm, we're derailing here

[Rexper]

It's not derailing. The whole purpose of this post was to question the methodology of the tier list, to which no one has described exact anywhere.

At the moment its based on assumptions, contradictions, and subjection.

I've also noticed alot of biased, especially towards the German-branded PSUs. For example, How is the Pure Power 10 a tier higher than Corsair CX? Why is the System Power U9 a tier higher than the S12iii?

 

But as Stefan told me, the list is for those who don't really care about choosing the right PSU.

 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, fade2black001 said:

How is the tier list made?

Ouija board.

 

[comicsansms]

16 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

Ouija board.

 

I think you mean a Luigi Board

[LienusLateTips]

We throw a dart at a board with a picture of Lisa Su in the middle, and pray it doesn't land on "Chinese Taipei".

 

 

On a side note, the G3 is bumped due to broken protections.

[-The_Mask-]

11 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

let's see

 

earthwatts gold is in tier a, which is focus based, the platinum is in c, where it should be. raider is also group, raider ii is soon to be moved to tier b. aurum pt is dc-dc

 

that was the one example you gave

Not really, it was quite different, I didn't talk about a EarthWatts Gold or Raider II for example. You should check again what I said. Because all those four I named where Aurum derivatives based on a ACRF forward design with group regulation. 

 

11 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

do you see the point of the list? it's a quick guide to not choose some random psu from a known company. it's a baseline for buying, because most people simply don't want to read through a whole guide, or simply don't understand them. there's a reason we started on renewing it.

I can see the point for a good list, I don't see a point of just another bad list. I mean there are enough bad PSU Tier lists why do people need another one? Just to get misinformed more?

 

10 hours ago, Rexper said:

But as Stefan told me, the list is for those who don't really care about choosing the right PSU.

Right now it is. Yet people that don't care at all aren't looking for something like this in the first place. People that do see this list do care at least a bit, but just simply lack the knowledge.

[LukeSavenije]

8 minutes ago, -The_Mask- said:

I didn't talk about a EarthWatts Gold or Raider II for example.

but you did talk about the platinum, which you said was in tier a, while it isn't. as simple as that

 

9 minutes ago, -The_Mask- said:

because all those four I named where Aurum derivatives based on a ACRF forward design with group regulation. 

only the aurum cm was misplaced, and has been noted in our central dock, so will be changed in the next revision

raider is tier d because it's worse than an aurum and group regulated and there's no earthwatts plat in the tier a. raider ii is a different story and will soon be added

20 minutes ago, -The_Mask- said:

can see the point for a good list, I don't see a point of just another bad list.

you have a choice: mock the tier list like some do, or actually help make it better. i'd appreciate the second one more

 

11 hours ago, Rexper said:

System Power U9 a tier higher than the S12iii?

because it's a dual meg vs a dc-dc and it's a discussable spot because at the time there weren't many reviews out?

 

9 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

Ouija board.

nah, we play luigi board, as confirmed by now

 

but as said, any problem in it is reportable to me, to stefan, to seon and to lienus

[-The_Mask-]

1 hour ago, LukeSavenije said:

but you did talk about the platinum, which you said was in tier a, while it isn't. as simple as that

I guess not. 

 

1 hour ago, LukeSavenije said:

raider is tier d because it's worse than an aurum and group regulated and there's no earthwatts plat in the tier a. raider ii is a different story and will soon be added

What's worse about Raider? The efficiency? That's the reason?

 

And please check the list again, because everyone can see that you're wrong, there is a EarthWatts Platinum in Tier A. It has only been placed under the wrong brand, but still there is only one Earthwatts Platinum and that's a Aurum based PSU using ACRF topology with group regulation.

 

1 hour ago, LukeSavenije said:

you have a choice: mock the tier list like some do, or actually help make it better. i'd appreciate the second one more

Who is mocking who exactly? You can also say that this list is mocking people with less knowledge by tricking them to make the wrong choice because of this tier list. 

[LukeSavenije]

2 hours ago, -The_Mask- said:

EarthWatts Platinum

ah, i see. don't know how that got at silverstone. will go into the revision

 

2 hours ago, -The_Mask- said:

You can also say that this list is mocking people with less knowledge by tricking them to make the wrong choice because of this tier list. 

so you're saying you rather have someone buying a cm elite than a cougar gxs just because it's a company they've heard of before?

[-The_Mask-]

No I'am saying that you don't help people with more bad advise. It only confuses more.

 

 

[LukeSavenije]

2 hours ago, -The_Mask- said:

No I'am saying that you don't help people with more bad advise. It only confuses more.

really? you can't quote?

 

and it's better than a outdated guide (ahem)

[imajerec]

No list is perfect and can be improved. 

It's hard to make an accurate list when such much criteria defining the overall quality of the PSU are involved.. More than that, some value one criteria more over an other. it can get subjective

 

But it's better to have such a tier list than no list at all,and the effort of trying to help is appreciated. the chances to get a good PSU chosing from the top side of the list are higher than to buy a bad PSU by yourself.

[Rexper]

11 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

you have a choice: mock the tier list like some do, or actually help make it better. i'd appreciate the second one more

 

No one can "help" the list because no one knows what voodoo criteria you use for the tiers.

 

For the fiftyith time Im asking for the exact, detailed criteria and methodology you use to dictate which PSU is which tiers.

Are there any calculations at all or is it just guy feeling?

[LukeSavenije]

7 minutes ago, Rexper said:

No one can "help" the list because no one knows what voodoo criteria you use for the tiers.

Quote

Units may be bumped down due to the following: missing protections, group regulation, bad electrical performance and catching fire.

 

Sleeve bearing fans will not be placed above Tier B. Group regulated units will not be placed above Tier C.

so it's fan quality (not loudness), performance, protections, regulation and general issues

 

9 minutes ago, Rexper said:

Are there any calculations at all or is it just guy feeling?

I'd say feeling, as we still haven't found the perfect calculation for it

[Rexper]

12 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

Quote

Units may be bumped down due to the following: missing protections, group regulation, bad electrical performance and catching fire.

 

Sleeve bearing fans will not be placed above Tier B. Group regulated units will not be placed above Tier C.

so it's fan quality (not loudness), performance, protections, regulation and general issues

Okay....

So you don't care if the build quality of the rest of the unit is garbage, just the fan.

You don't care about transient filtering, surge or inrush protection.

"Performance"... What? What sort of performance? What exact aspects? At what values do you define them as "good"? You don't combine performance measurements to find an "overall" performance scores?

Protections, same again.

Regulation is part of performance, is it not?

15 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

I'd say feeling, as we still haven't found the perfect calculation for it

Which is why this tier list is just as useless/biased/flawed as every other one.

You should've figured it out before starting the list.

[Stefan Payne]

17 minutes ago, Rexper said:

So you don't care if the build quality of the rest of the unit is garbage, just the fan.

Yes, because we are not competent enough to rate the Build Quality.

In this Forum, there is _ONE_ Person that might have some experience to do that.

And that is @jonnyGURU

Because he works as a manufacturer and has access to data I/we have not.

 

But to really be able to rate the Build Quality, you have to be an electronics engineer with specialty in Power Engineering (means not Dave Jones, he specialized more in Nautical, Measurement and FPGA Design).

 

Quote

You don't care about transient filtering, surge or inrush protection.

There is no inrush protection.

There is only Inrush limiting. Basically a Resistor (either a normal one that might or might not be brigded by a switch or a temperature dependant resistor) in series with the whole PSU. That means that with a 1200W PSU, the whole 10A has to go through this resistor if its not bridged.

 

Besides that:
Its technically an output filtering, not an input one. It is there to keep the shit from the PSU from the mains, not the other way around. ITs called input filtering because its the first thing happening and on the input stage of the PSU. Not because it filters the Input.

 

Quote

"Performance"... What? What sort of performance? What exact aspects? At what values do you define them as "good"? You don't combine performance measurements to find an "overall" performance scores?

Everything? To a certain point...

At a certain point the "better Performance" is not relevant no more.

 

Quote

Which is why this tier list is just as useless/biased/flawed as every other one.

You should've figured it out before starting the list.

If you disagree, try to work with us and try to make it better!

But just complaining solves nothing...