Microsoft continues to back off of UWP programs, Win32 re-"elevated to full status"

[Delicieuxz]

Microsoft Confirms UWP is Not the Future of Windows Apps

Microsoft wants to close the UWP, Win32 divide with 'Windows Apps'

 

Quote

 

 Microsoft is effectively killing UWP by ensuring that all its capabilities are available to once-legacy app development platforms.

 

“You’ve told us that you would like us to continue to decouple many parts of the Universal Windows Platform so that you can adopt them incrementally,” Microsoft corporate vice president Kevin Gallo writes in a blog post aimed at developers. “Allowing you to use our platform and tools to meet you where your customers are going – empowering you to deliver rich, intelligent experiences that put people at the center.”

 

To be clear, this is a positive change: Instead of blindly pushing forward with its failed strategy to make Universal Windows Apps (UWPs) the only truly-modern platform for building Windows apps, Microsoft has, over time, opened up more and more UWP functionality to non-UWP platforms. This includes legacy platforms that Microsoft once deprecated, like Win32, WPF, and WinForms. So what’s old is new again.

 

Naturally, the firm needs to continue the marketing narrative, however, and Gallo told Mary Jo Foley that neither UWP nor the Microsoft Store was dead. (I have stated point blank that UWP is dead and I recently questioned whether the Microsoft Store had a future given that most users install apps from elsewhere.)

 

“By the time we are done, everything will just be called ‘Windows apps,’” Gallo told Foley. The ultimate idea is to make “every platform feature available to every developer … [But] we’re not quite there yet.”

 

...

 

As Foley notes, Microsoft’s new strategy is to make all developers features available to all of the Windows frameworks. Left unsaid, however, is that this is a refutation of the original strategy and that Microsoft only made this change, over time, because most developers rejected UWP.

 

Put another way, UWP is dead. Not literally—it’s still the only way to create WinCore apps that run across Windows 10, HoloLens, Surface Hub, and IoT—but effectively. And the way we know that’s true is that Win32, WPF, and WinForms have all been “elevated to full status”—Gallo’s words—in Windows 10 all these years later.

 

 

Well, this is good to read. In almost all ways, UWP was a step back from Win32 in that it didn't advance the Windows platform for 3rd-party programs, but devolved it, seemingly as part of an attempt by Microsoft to create their own version of the Apple Store, where everyone would go to get UWP programs.

 

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That effort didn't work out, likely because Microsoft Store sucks, UWP sucks, and because the already-existing Win32 is generally better at everything for developers and consumers.

 

If there is no interest in using UWP already now, then I expect that uptake on UWP will only decrease now that Win32 is officially back to 'full status' (in Microsoft's view) - not that Win32's status ever really changed in anyone else's view.

[PlayStation 2]

Is it me or is Microsoft backing off of their stupid decisions more and more lately?

[Emberstone]

10 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Is it me or is Microsoft backing off of their stupid decisions more and more lately?

Isn't it wonderful?

[Delicieuxz]

1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Is it me or is Microsoft backing off of their stupid decisions more and more lately?

I think some of Microsoft's bad plans, of which there were many around the launch of Windows 10, have simply failed for long enough that there's no point in MS continuing to exert their energy with them. I don't think Microsoft has run out of stupid ideas, though.

[Trixanity]

If only Microsoft showed some vision, direction and ambition - and I mean that in the sense of positive goals, not their usual MO of half-assed scheming.

[RejZoR]

The idea behind UWD was paved with good intentions, but it was just too clumsy and limiting to the end user. And especially sucked for games. The last thing we needed was another Windows Live for Games nonsense... I like Windows Store for some things, like Paint.NET and MusicBee so they auto-update without me having to do anything. But I'm sure they can do the same with Win32 apps instead of doing a mess with it.

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Is it me or is Microsoft backing off of their stupid decisions more and more lately?

Yes, but not for the reasons we think of.

 

The stupidest decision ever was Xbox Live "Gold". You had to pay for Gold, even if you wanted to watch Netflix. I forget when this changed, but clearly the people in charge of Xbox still have their heads up their butts, since they still demand their own servers for games, thus still no MMORPG's on the Xbox platform.

 

Microsoft's quick-to-abandon hardware is still a stupid decision, now I'm not saying I want a Windows Phone or PDA again, but when they decided to kill of Windows Mobile (CE) they should have had a stripped down Windows available like how iOS is just MacOS with a different window manager, but no, they screwed this up, and then tried to force it on the rest of the desktop (Windows 8 ) users. Now we're going to be forever stuck with this monstrosity in the background that only works with the UWP/Windows Store.

 

They backed off these things because they thought they had the brand loyalty Apple does and that people who use Windows would want a "Windows-anywhere" ecosystem, but instead their arrogance bit them a few times, and thus we're where we are today and Microsoft can't grow by entering new markets, so they have to poach existing ones for a while. Microsoft, if you're listening, if you want to make another attempt at a Windows Phone, I'm dying for an alternative to the rubbish Android phones. 

[Nowak]

Expected. UWP has no reason to exist now due to Windows Phone's death.

[ZacoAttaco]

29 minutes ago, Nowak said:

Expected. UWP has no reason to exist now due to Windows Phone's death.

I'm thinking about what happens to Windows 10S, didn't that rely on the UWP? Perhaps that's been abandoned now too.

[captain_to_fire]

32 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

I'm thinking about what happens to Windows 10S, didn't that rely on the UWP? Perhaps that's been abandoned now too.

Since the Windows Store nowadays also distributes Win32 apps, it's possible that Windows 10S will be locked down to Win32 apps only distributed from the Windows Store since one of its features is better security. 

[jagdtigger]

6 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

better security

It doesnt have better security, its just so unpopular that no hacker would waste time with it...

[strajk-]

Nice, so does it mean that they're finally going to update the Controls in their WPF Library?

They're all absolute trash and not needed at all outside the scope of writing a small test App.

Reached the point that 90% (not a bullshit stat) of the Controls I use in development are ones I made myself either from scratch or inheriting the Original interface.

 

The worst offender being the <WebBrowser/> Control, that crap is still running on IE8 and it has HUGE airspace issues since it's a Win32 WinForms component wrapped to be hosted in WPF, it's not native, due to that I had to fork CefSharp and make my own.

[captain_to_fire]

52 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

It doesnt have better security, its just so unpopular that no hacker would waste time with it...

Actually, it can resist common malware attacks because it is locked down to the Windows Store. However, most institutions can do similar application whitelisting with Intune or GPO which eliminates the need for 10S. 

 

The use case scenario I can see for the 10s are parents who want to lockdown the device their kids are using and schools so that students wouldn't install random shit. 

[LAwLz]

This might be great, but it might be a bit sad, depending on what they mean.

I really like some things with UWP. And by UWP I mainly mean the distribution through the store, and the packages. Those things are great especially now that you don't need a Microsoft account to use the store. A repository which hosts and updates a bunch of programs? Sounds great!

 

My big problem with UWP was the terrible programming framework they also launched with it. The one that was suppose to run on all platforms (like Windows Mobile, Xbox, etc). It was shit. It was extremely limited in what it could do.

 

 

I hope they keep the UWP packaging stuff and Store (although it needs a lot of improvements) and scrap the framework stuff.

[Guest]

Got nothing on Apple anyway

[jagdtigger]

29 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

Actually, it can resist common malware attacks because it is locked down to the Windows Store

My point still applies, you common malwares are for win32, not for this garbage....

[captain_to_fire]

35 minutes ago, floofer said:

Got nothing on Apple anyway

Adobe CC and Office 365 is now available on the Mac App Store...

Spoiler

... could definitely pave the way for an ARM-powered MacBook...

 

[yian88]

15 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Is it me or is Microsoft backing off of their stupid decisions more and more lately?

Dont worry they will make new stubborn stupid decisions and then after a couple of years of stubbornness they will back off and windows will continue to be a shit platform due to failed ideas. Metro, UWP, windows mobile and the ever growing windows bloat, if they mess it up with Windows Core modular OS (and they will) then windows is out the equation for me, its just running like garbage and  getting worse, at least on laptops, i no longer use Desktop PC and even with a mid-high end laptop its utter garbage i have to run Linux just to have a bit of decency on my machine, my 200$ phone 4GB runs way faster than windows on a mid-high end laptop lenovo y520 with 16GB RAM, fucking ridiculous, if software doesnt keep up with hardware its like hardware never advanced, windows is like an extremely obese person that refuses to give up junk food and live healthy, on the other hand linux, android and mac/iOS are like fit people that eat healthy and go to the gym regularly.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

This might be great, but it might be a bit sad, depending on what they mean.

I really like some things with UWP. And by UWP I mainly mean the distribution through the store, and the packages. Those things are great especially now that you don't need a Microsoft account to use the store. A repository which hosts and updates a bunch of programs? Sounds great!

 

My big problem with UWP was the terrible programming framework they also launched with it. The one that was suppose to run on all platforms (like Windows Mobile, Xbox, etc). It was shit. It was extremely limited in what it could do.

 

 

I hope they keep the UWP packaging stuff and Store (although it needs a lot of improvements) and scrap the framework stuff.

As well as that,  weren't they trying to move everyone away from win32 trying to make things less dependent on specific hardware (ergo the move to ARM compatability)?

 

 

[LAwLz]

14 minutes ago, mr moose said:

As well as that,  weren't they trying to move everyone away from win32 trying to make things less dependent on specific hardware (ergo the move to ARM compatability)?

I thought so too at one point, but even before they became less strict about Store policies there were several "true UWP" programs which only supported one platform or the other, including several programs from Microsoft themselves.

So it didn't seem like cross architecture support was a necessary part of UWP. Although Microsoft were certainly pushing for developers to do it.

[LAwLz]

Also, can I take a moment to just say how confusing and terrible Microsoft's names for things have been?

UWP can currently refer to 3 different things.

1) A program which runs on most Microsoft platforms such as Xbox, Windows 10 desktop, Windows 10 Mobile (RIP), and so on.

2) A program using the XALM and the UWP APIs (sometimes refered to as UWP app, sometimes referred to as Windows Store App, and formerly known as Metro-style apps).

3) A program running in UWP container, which includes the desktop bridged Win32 programs.

 

There might be some other version of an "UWP" program I am missing, but seriously... Couldn't we have separate terms for this? Why not name the APIs one thing, the container one thing and the architecture-agnostic thing a third name. It would have cleaned up a lot of confusion.

[TechyBen]

18 hours ago, Trixanity said:

If only Microsoft showed some vision, direction and ambition - and I mean that in the sense of positive goals, not their usual MO of half-assed scheming.

Yeah, I'd have nothing bad to say about UWP if it at least FILTERED their programs/submissions. But even Steam in it's current state does more checks and balances to protect users than the UWP store. I saw "Micro$oft Solitaire" and "MicaSoft Word" apps galore, and would not risk downloading incase they were malware.

 

3 hours ago, yian88 said:

Dont worry they will make new stubborn stupid decisions and then after a couple of years of stubbornness they will back off and windows will continue to be a shit platform due to failed ideas. Metro, UWP, windows mobile and the ever growing windows bloat, if they mess it up with Windows Core modular OS (and they will) then windows is out the equation for me, its just running like garbage and  getting worse, at least on laptops, i no longer use Desktop PC and even with a mid-high end laptop its utter garbage i have to run Linux just to have a bit of decency on my machine, my 200$ phone 4GB runs way faster than windows on a mid-high end laptop lenovo y520 with 16GB RAM, fucking ridiculous, if software doesnt keep up with hardware its like hardware never advanced, windows is like an extremely obese person that refuses to give up junk food and live healthy, on the other hand linux, android and mac/iOS are like fit people that eat healthy and go to the gym regularly.

 

PS, IMO Windows Mobile was not a failed idea. It seemed fantastic actually. It got killed by development medling, marketing failure and grand scope pull out and retreat for some reason. If they'd not kept tweaking it and killing compatibility/market share (Apple dropping 32bit apps is bad enough, but MS did 3 or 4 OS revisions needing NEW apps each time!).

[Doobeedoo]

Getting kinda messy though. 

[Hellion]

19 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Is it me or is Microsoft backing off of their stupid decisions more and more lately?

No. The spyware mess that is windows 10 still exists.