Is mac OS more secure than windows ? There have been user data loss with some windows updates, what do you think ?

[Bonergarage_007]

I want to store a whole lot of office files and frequently transfer money online. Am I better off with a macbook/mac mini or should I get a more powerful windows laptop with rtx gpu (to play some call of duty maybe). I'm only worried about security and don't want to get bothered with windows update every 5 minutes.

[GoodBytes]

4 minutes ago, Bonergarage_007 said:

I want to store a whole lot of office files and frequently transfer money online. Am I better off with a macbook/mac mini or should I get a more powerful windows laptop with rtx gpu (to play some call of duty maybe). I'm only worried about security and don't want to get bothered with windows update every 5 minutes.

We can't say which OS is more secure. You can't measure this. Mac's are less popular, so less of a target, then again, they have security holes where a virus/malware can penetrate a hardware firmware. So, even if you re-install the OS, it re-infects, and anti-virus can't do anything in removing the root of the problem. You'll need to discover what hardware is infected, and replace it.. if you can.

 

What is more popular today, are ransomware over viruses in any case, as anti-virus can't detect them unless they are known before. If you have sensitive data, regardless of the OS, you should have backups.

 

Windows update has caused partial data loss for select few people in the past. Probably more people where affected by a failing HDD during the upgrade process due to the drive load, then from the actual update. I have no data to back this claim. It is just my opinion. Again, you should have backups. So beside some inconvenience, you should be fine.

 

[Homelessscootalo]

It would probably do better to make sure your accounts for your banks and stuff have security like 2FA enabled.

 

Don't go to shady sites or execute random programs you find online.

[Bonergarage_007]

Just now, Homelessscootalo said:

It would probably do better to make sure your accounts for your banks and stuff have security like 2FA enabled.

 

Don't go to shady sites or execute random programs you find online.

So it's more like good internet habits rather than the OS ? but still what about the windows update problem ?

[Homelessscootalo]

1 minute ago, Bonergarage_007 said:

So it's more like good internet habits rather than the OS ? but still what about the windows update problem ?

I buy storage from OneDrive and save all important things on it anyway, so I've never been too worried about the pesky W10 updates.

[GoodBytes]

1 minute ago, Bonergarage_007 said:

So it's more like good internet habits rather than the OS ?

Yes. And keeping all your software fully updates

 

Quote

but still what about the windows update problem ?

As I mentioned, you should have backups in any case.

Hardware failure can occur on a Apple device as much as on PC. Consumer grade are only rated in reliability between 95-97%. Getting that 99%+ is very costly, hence, one of the reasons why server equipment tend to be so much more expensive over consumer hardware. It is a big diminishing return. So even if there 0 issues with OSX or Windows 10 updates, you still risk of failures.

 

Again, it happened only once that some select few people had data loss, and Microsoft quickly pull the plug to get ti solved. This is very rare instance.

 

[CoDrift07]

Best to get a cheaper PC (around 20-30$ optiplex's will do) for the secure stuff. And an RTX based PC for gaming.

This way the gaming PC won't effect your files. And you won't have to deal with OS updated on the cheaper PC with a different OS, say Windows 7.

[kirashi]

17 minutes ago, Bonergarage_007 said:

I want to store a whole lot of office files and frequently transfer money online. Am I better off with a macbook/mac mini or should I get a more powerful windows laptop with rtx gpu (to play some call of duty maybe). I'm only worried about security and don't want to get bothered with windows update every 5 minutes.

No one can guarantee 100% security on ANY OS. Period. Full stop. As @GoodBytes noted, the OS with less market share will of course appear more secure, but only because the marketshare of the OS is... well, less than that of Windows. If you were to create an even playing field, leveling the percentages to be 50/50, you'd actually see a higher percentage of infections with MacOS users, but not because the OS is inherently less secure: the higher infection rate would be from uneducated users who've been told that "MacOS can't get viruses" - these same people would probably be among those that blindly install MacKeeper or other such malware onto their Mac's because they believe those are legitimate applications.

 

The best form of security is CommonSense™, combined with a basic security software such as Windows Defender or Gatekeeper on MacOS (or whatever Apple ships with MacOS these days) and regular system updates. And yes, you heard me right - you must install regular updates on your OS if you want to keep it as secure as possible when connecting to the internet, regardless of it being MacOS or Windows. Are updates annoying? They can be, but they're no different than changing the oil in your car or rotating your tired regularly. Technically you can avoid them for a long time, but eventually something is going to break, at which point it'll be your fault for not keeping up with regular system maintenance.

 

And again, the number one rule with anything is backup, backup, backup and and all data you cannot re-create or re-download with ease, as hardware can and does fail, no matter how much money you spent on it. I've had all brands of hard drives die on me over the years, some of which died in less than 6 months despite being "enterprise" rated, while other consumer brand drives are still holding strong after 5+ years in constant operation. If you haven't started backing up important data, check out Backblaze's 3-2-1 Backup method on their blog post here: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/the-3-2-1-backup-strategy/

[NetherRealm]

Have you considered linux as an option? I mean, there are some wonderfully made distros out there, and with the community working together to patch vulnerabilities, it could be a great choice, especially since you shouldn't need to upgrade the hardware you already run on! Not to mention the numerous optimizations in some of the distros i've used that barely use any RAM or CPU time at all!

 

Just saying there ARE free options available...

[DrMacintosh]

User data loss from bad Windows updates is different from OS security. 

 

No OS is entirely "secure" but macOS does have the advantage of occupying just 13% of the market, meaning that the people who make viruses/malware/etc. are not likely to invest time into the Mac. So essentially macOS is secure because it is obscure. 

 

If you plan on doing any gaming, a Mac is not for you. You'll need Windows on some level for that. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

 

Windows update has caused partial data loss for select few people in the past. Probably more people where affected by a failing HDD during the upgrade process due to the drive load, then from the actual update. I have no data to back this claim. It is just my opinion. Again, you should have backups. So beside some inconvenience, you should be fine.

 

Honestly they really need to look at revamping Windows Update. Moving to MacOS and working out Linux for a while, they have basic, yet much better update systems, and I've never had a kernel panic or anything crashing as a result. I know Windows has to update more systems, more varied hardware - and its bound to happen, but not doing anything about it is a little ambitious. Windows Update is probably the number one inconvenience that pushes people away from Windows. 

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, floofer said:

they have basic, yet much better update systems

Not to mention that you can opt-out of updates if you want. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Not to mention that you can opt-out of updates if you want. 

 

Well, you don't actually need to with a Mac, because you choose what data gets sent to Apple, and the updates install automatically, quickly, and only over wifi. I've just never had to think about an update for my Mac. 

[kirashi]

39 minutes ago, floofer said:

Well, you don't actually need to with a Mac, because you choose what data gets sent to Apple, and the updates install automatically, quickly, and only over wifi. I've just never had to think about an update for my Mac. 

Eh, I wouldn't say quickly... anytime I've ever installed a major OS update it's taken just as long on a Mac as it does on a Windows 10 PC - about 20-45 minutes in an HDD based machine, and about 10-35 minutes in an SSD based machine. That being said, you're right about picking and choosing what data allegedly gets sent to Apple, but unless you've got access to the source code, you can only trust them at their word.

[-CLASSIFIED-]

the only reason they say its more secure is because most viruses etc target / are made for windows. otherwise its no less secure 

[JoostinOnline]

1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

No OS is entirely "secure" but macOS does have the advantage of occupying just 13% of the market, meaning that the people who make viruses/malware/etc. are not likely to invest time into the Mac. So essentially macOS is secure because it is obscure.  

Not just this, but Mac OS (and pretty much every Unix system) is inherently more secure when compared to Windows. It's not just about marketshare.

 

I wouldn't buy a Mac because I don't feel like the better software is worth the premium (plus I like the ability to customize), but Windows is not a good option strictly for security.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kirashi said:

Eh, I wouldn't say quickly... anytime I've ever installed a major OS update it's taken just as long on a Mac as it does on a Windows 10 PC - about 20-45 minutes in an HDD based machine, and about 10-35 minutes in an SSD based machine. That being said, you're right about picking and choosing what data allegedly gets sent to Apple, but unless you've got access to the source code, you can only trust them at their word.

Its about 20 min max for me, for a big update. I mean that really depends on the size of the update, but I was just saying whether the update could be detrimental or you try and start up your machine and it goes straight to update - you're always given the option to defer the update as soon as its downloaded on a Mac. 

[EldritchMoose]

5 hours ago, Homelessscootalo said:

It would probably do better to make sure your accounts for your banks and stuff have security like 2FA enabled.

 

Don't go to shady sites or execute random programs you find online.

I'd say this is a much more important factor when it comes to securing data than OS choice.

 

At the end of the day, it's not the failed attempts at gathering your data that should worry you, it's the successful one. Fact is, every OS has its own vulnerabilities that can be exploited and just because OSX does not have the kind of market share that Windows has, doesn't take away the fact that people WILL try to create viruses specific to it. Hell, the claim that "Mac don't get viruses" alone was taken as a challenge and disproven pretty quickly.

 

The more important factor from the OP IMO is the ability to have an RTX-enabled GPU for gaming purposes. That's a specific hardware requirement that will likely limit your choice in Mac hardware since it looks like the current iMacs run Vega cards. Aside from that, more often than not, a game will not be ported to OSX, which would require you to buy a copy of Windows and allocate part of the already limited drive space to an OS simply to run a few games, meaning you'd have to reboot into another OS every time you felt like gaming.

 

I recently jumped off the Apple boat specifically because I wanted to do more gaming and felt like Boot Camp was too annoying of a hoop to keep jumping through. I like OSX and how it still runs as smoothly on 8 year-old hardware, something which I couldn't say for the Windows installation on the same machine.

[WkdPaul]

I haven't read all the replies, but to sum it up, this is the most important point, regardless of the OS ;

8 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

As I mentioned, you should have backups in any case.

 

Especially if, like you said, you're going to store a lot of office files and do lots of money transfers.

 

Have a good backup solution (both on-site and off-site backups), have a good anti-virus solution (look at reputable brands), keep your system up-to-date (even if there were issues with Windows updates recently), make sure to properly filter the emails you open (phishing attempts are getting pretty good), etc ...

[RejZoR]

6 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

Not just this, but Mac OS (and pretty much every Unix system) is inherently more secure when compared to Windows. It's not just about marketshare.

 

I wouldn't buy a Mac because I don't feel like the better software is worth the premium (plus I like the ability to customize), but Windows is not a good option strictly for security.

Linux is also stupid clumsy wqith it's "better" security that people just don't want to deal with. It's why they use Windows more, because it's not bugging them for every crap, it just does what they want. Imagine if car asked you for password every time you wanted to reverse or try to open a trunk...

[JoostinOnline]

7 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Linux is also stupid clumsy wqith it's "better" security that people just don't want to deal with. It's why they use Windows more, because it's not bugging them for every crap, it just does what they want. Imagine if car asked you for password every time you wanted to reverse or try to open a trunk...

Well we're not talking about what's more user friendly. That's heavily influenced by the distro anyway. There are plenty of reasons to prefer Windows, but security isn't one of them.

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

Well we're not talking about what's more user friendly. That's heavily influenced by the distro anyway. There are plenty of reasons to prefer Windows, but security isn't one of them.

You got one thing right about it. When people already give up when they are placed in front of 500 billion distros... they just say fuck this shit and go with Windows 10 Home, because they don't think they'll need the features in Windows 10 Pro. Coz it literally has 2 "distros" for home users. Also this fixed idea that Windows is inherently insecure. Guys, this isn't Windows 98 anymore. Windows 10 design is just as secure as any Linux. It's more user friendly out of the box, but if you want it locked down, it can be just the same. I can also make OS that's the most secure thing in the world. You just can't really do much with it. But it's the most secure.

[Donut417]

On 3/27/2019 at 10:20 PM, Bonergarage_007 said:

I want to store a whole lot of office files and frequently transfer money online. Am I better off with a macbook/mac mini or should I get a more powerful windows laptop with rtx gpu (to play some call of duty maybe). I'm only worried about security and don't want to get bothered with windows update every 5 minutes.

Mac OS is based off Unix, similar to Linux. Part of the "Better Security" claim that people made about Apple's OS is that it has a very low market share. Back in the day Microsoft had a 96% market share in the desktop OS market. 2% of that was Apple and 1% was like Linux. Since Microsoft now has a market share in the 80 ish % range. Apple has gain some market share. Over the last few years we have seen some more Virus activity on the Apple front as a result. Most of computer security is the User, if the user is not a total idiot then you tend to not have issues. 

 

Windows 10

 

Windows 10 is probably the most secure OS MS has ever released. It has built in Virus protection and in generally just better security. As far as Windows updates are concerned. If you are on a home version they will just push updates to you with out consent and yes your machine could restart by itself at bad times. I personally have never had Windows 10 just restart on its own, but I have read many posts with people it did. Generally security updates wont do anything to your system but make them more secure, well at least we hope. Major updates like any of the creators updates can cause system issues. For example the October update is just finally being fully pushed out to users after fucking up a lot of peoples machines last year. In any case @GoodBytes is right, if you have sensitive data regardless of OS, you should have a backup. My advice would be as far as updates on Windows are concerned, if possible keep you data on a separate disk from the OS. Thats what I do and I have no issue if Windows has a stroke. 

 

 

[GardeningWithSilicon]

I thought I might chime in with a youtube video from blackhat. Mudge, former Cult of the Dead Cow member turned NSA guy, wrote a fuzzer to find vulns in the three major OS. 

 

You can find the summary here: 

 

In short: Windows is a lot more secure than you would first think, and Linux (in this case Ubuntu 16.04)  is not as hardened as you would imagine.  Mac comes in the middle. Please note that this is a talk from 2017 - so not ancient, but not current. 

 

Another key thing to note is that more than just the OS is vulnerable. While you may ask about which OS is out of the box most secure, you would be ignoring all the software which makes the computer useful. Your software should be something that you can trust. Employing good practices (such as verifying the  software source, verifying the integrity of the file, and updating frequently to patch security vulnerabilities) are just as important that making sure you chose a "secure" OS from the get go. 

 

Having done security work for all three platforms, my recommendation would be to choose a platform which allows the most security by default and using best practices. Security cannot defeat a determined user who wants to open attachments from Nigerian scammers. 

 

As far as Linux being more secure - this simply is not true. Mac is not more secure. Windows is not more secure. A determined adversary will find a way into the system. 

 

With that being said, it sounds to me like you probably aren't going to be the target of a state-level actor trying to compromise your system. 

 

Best practice for your use case would probably be to use two different systems. One system which handles the money transactions, and one system that does everything else. If you can keep them on separate networks, that would be even better. But, it's probably not realistic. So, IMO, just get a low price laptop for transactions and a desktop for gaming/surfing the net/ everything else. 

[wasab]

On 4/5/2019 at 5:21 PM, GardeningWithSilicon said:

I thought I might chime in with a youtube video from blackhat. Mudge, former Cult of the Dead Cow member turned NSA guy, wrote a fuzzer to find vulns in the three major OS. 

 

You can find the summary here: 

 

In short: Windows is a lot more secure than you would first think, and Linux (in this case Ubuntu 16.04)  is not as hardened as you would imagine.  Mac comes in the middle. Please note that this is a talk from 2017 - so not ancient, but not current. 

 

Another key thing to note is that more than just the OS is vulnerable. While you may ask about which OS is out of the box most secure, you would be ignoring all the software which makes the computer useful. Your software should be something that you can trust. Employing good practices (such as verifying the  software source, verifying the integrity of the file, and updating frequently to patch security vulnerabilities) are just as important that making sure you chose a "secure" OS from the get go. 

 

Having done security work for all three platforms, my recommendation would be to choose a platform which allows the most security by default and using best practices. Security cannot defeat a determined user who wants to open attachments from Nigerian scammers. 

 

As far as Linux being more secure - this simply is not true. Mac is not more secure. Windows is not more secure. A determined adversary will find a way into the system. 

 

With that being said, it sounds to me like you probably aren't going to be the target of a state-level actor trying to compromise your system. 

 

Best practice for your use case would probably be to use two different systems. One system which handles the money transactions, and one system that does everything else. If you can keep them on separate networks, that would be even better. But, it's probably not realistic. So, IMO, just get a low price laptop for transactions and a desktop for gaming/surfing the net/ everything else. 

Linux is inherently more secure simply because 

 

1) we Linux user's get almost everything from our distro repo which is as likely of catching malware as downloading an app from Google play store on Android or apple App store on iOS. I mean when is the last time you have heard of botnets on your phone's even though they far outnumber personal computers?

 

2) because of root permission, user permissions, and ownership, there are few attack vectors for malware's to exploit on Linux in the first place. To do anything substantial, a malware has to perform privilege escalation attack on top of whatever it's originally intended exploit is. Talk to any Linux system admin running a data base or web server. They can easily tell you how many unsual failed logins they see a day (like thousands of attempt per second all from the same ip) which is obviously perform by a computer control by some hackers. 

 

3) yeah. I heard people say market share and all that. Yes partly but it is more than that. In web servers where Linux enjoyed an unchallenged Monopoly, there are plenty of malware's/viruses targeting Linux  and yet the IT proffesional would still tell you Linux is more secure.