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Why is XMP garbage?

I have heard Linus mention several times that XMP is complete trash. Why is that?

 

Also, what is the alternative to getting your motherboard to use your RAM at full speed?

Rest In Peace my old signature...                  September 11th 2018 ~ December 26th 2018

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Extreme Memory Profile lets you overclock RAM and compatible DDR3 DDR4 memory to enhance the gaming features built into PCs. Get that extra edge you need to dominate. Load predefined and tested XMP profiles through your computer’s operating system, using BIOS or a specific tuning application.

 

Get more speed out of ram, you need to OC RAM.

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3 minutes ago, MandoPanda said:

I have heard Linus mention several times that XMP is complete trash. Why is that?

where? It is kinda trash to those after absolute performance because they are never as aggressive as it could have been, but it's up to the user on to whether use it or not anyway. It doesnt stop you from manually overclocking your memory either.

 

3 minutes ago, MandoPanda said:

Also, what is the alternative to getting your motherboard to use your RAM at full speed?

Manual overclocking

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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1 minute ago, Jurrunio said:

where?

I won't really be able to find it now. It was probably in one of their long form overclocking videos. He mentioned a story about how one of his board partner reps was surprised to hear that Linus didn't like XMP. I'm sure he's mentioned it in some WAN shows too.

Rest In Peace my old signature...                  September 11th 2018 ~ December 26th 2018

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I'm in the same boat. Linus was the first one I've heard complain about XMP, I've already been able to use it successfully and it's common advice on the forum.

I WILL find your ITX build thread, and I WILL recommend the SIlverstone Sugo SG13B

 

Primary PC:

i7 8086k (won) - EVGA Z370 Classified K - G.Skill Trident Z RGB - WD SN750 - Jedi Order Titan Xp - Hyper 212 Black (with RGB Riing flair) - EVGA G3 650W - dual booting Windows 10 and Linux - Black and green theme, Razer brainwashed me.

Draws 400 watts under max load, for reference.

 

Linux Proliant ML150 G6:

Dual Xeon X5560 - 24GB ECC DDR3 - GTX 750 TI - old Seagate 1.5TB HDD - dark mode Ubuntu (and Win7, cuz why not)

 

How many watts do I need? Seasonic Focus thread, PSU misconceptions, protections explainedgroup reg is bad

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8 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Manual overclocking

Just typing it into the BOIS manually?

Rest In Peace my old signature...                  September 11th 2018 ~ December 26th 2018

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Just now, MandoPanda said:

Just typing it into the BOIS manually?

yes ,just like CPU overclocking. However instead of getting the frequency and voltage right, on memory OC you lock the voltage, and find the best set of frequency and timings to use.

CPU: i7-2600K 4751MHz 1.44V (software) --> 1.47V at the back of the socket Motherboard: Asrock Z77 Extreme4 (BCLK: 103.3MHz) CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D15 RAM: Adata XPG 2x8GB DDR3 (XMP: 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 CR2, custom: 2203MHz 10-11-10-26 CR1 tRFC:230 tREFI:14000) GPU: Asus GTX 1070 Dual (Super Jetstream vbios, +70(2025-2088MHz)/+400(8.8Gbps)) SSD: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (main boot drive), Transcend SSD370 128GB PSU: Seasonic X-660 80+ Gold Case: Antec P110 Silent, 5 intakes 1 exhaust Monitor: AOC G2460PF 1080p 144Hz (150Hz max w/ DP, 121Hz max w/ HDMI) TN panel Keyboard: Logitech G610 Orion (Cherry MX Blue) with SteelSeries Apex M260 keycaps Mouse: BenQ Zowie FK1

 

Model: HP Omen 17 17-an110ca CPU: i7-8750H (0.125V core & cache, 50mV SA undervolt) GPU: GTX 1060 6GB Mobile (+80/+450, 1650MHz~1750MHz 0.78V~0.85V) RAM: 8+8GB DDR4-2400 18-17-17-39 2T Storage: 1TB HP EX920 PCIe x4 M.2 SSD + 1TB Seagate 7200RPM 2.5" HDD (ST1000LM049-2GH172), 128GB Toshiba PCIe x2 M.2 SSD (KBG30ZMV128G) gone cooking externally Monitor: 1080p 126Hz IPS G-sync

 

Desktop benching:

Cinebench R15 Single thread:168 Multi-thread: 833 

SuperPi (v1.5 from Techpowerup, PI value output) 16K: 0.100s 1M: 8.255s 32M: 7m 45.93s

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For me personally, XMP is not trash, as I dont understand how to manually OC the RAM properly especially the involved timings, etc.. So XMP is a handy tool for me who dont bother to manual OC RAM.

 

My RAM is 2666MHz C16, but I just simply go to BIOS and enable the XMP and set it at 3200MHz with 1.35v on it, and let the XMP choose the other parameters for me.. So I use a pair of 2666 but run at 3200, cheap RAM but run at higher speed.

My system specs:

Spoiler

CPU: Intel Core i7-8700K, 5GHz Delidded LM || CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-C14S w/ NF-A15 & NF-A14 Chromax fans in push-pull cofiguration || Motherboard: MSI Z370i Gaming Pro Carbon AC || RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2x8Gb 2666 || GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6Gb FTW2+ DT || Storage: Samsung 860 Evo M.2 SATA SSD 250Gb, 2x 2.5" HDDs 1Tb & 500Gb || ODD: 9mm Slim DVD RW || PSU: Corsair SF600 80+ Platinum || Case: Cougar QBX + 1x Noctua NF-R8 front intake + 2x Noctua NF-F12 iPPC top exhaust + Cougar stock 92mm DC fan rear exhaust || Monitor: ASUS VG248QE || Keyboard: Ducky One 2 Mini Cherry MX Red || Mouse: Logitech G703 || Audio: Corsair HS70 Wireless || Other: XBox One S Controler

My build logs:

 

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XMP can be trash because a lot of people get unstable clocks that cause their computer to not boot or blue screen. 

This is because the actual supported max frequency is dependant on the memory controller which on modern CPU's is on the CPU die...and the quality can vary for this as much as it does for silicon lottery. 

 

XMP i guess is great for low speeds like 3000Mhz for Ryzen or 3200Mhz for Intel...but once you start hitting 3600, 4000....then the memory starts to become more susceptible to voltages and timings dependant on your CPU's memory controller. On older DDR3 platforms XMP would be a big fail because many memory controllers would get very picky with 2400Mhz speeds.

 

People who do set the XMP will often also overclock CPU and/or GPU, and then when they start getting game crashes and other stability glitches they often forget to troubleshoot the memory timing as a cause for it, because of trusting XMP and not understanding more advanced memory settings like VCCSA & VCCIO and memory controller stability. 

 

In saying that though most DDR3 only came with the "enthusiast" profile, while most DDR4 has 2 XMPP's, one being more conservative so you're more likely to get a stable overclock at a somewhat decent rate. 

 

Spoiler

Desktop: Ryzen9 5950X | ASUS ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (Wifi) | EVGA RTX 3080Ti FTW3 | 32GB (2x16GB) Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB Pro 3600Mhz | EKWB EK-AIO 360D-RGB | EKWB EK-Vardar RGB Fans | 1TB Samsung 980 Pro, 4TB Samsung 980 Pro | Corsair 5000D Airflow | Corsair HX850 Platinum PSU | LG 32" 32GK850G Monitor x2 | Ducky DK2108 Keyboard | Steel Series Sensei Ten | MicroLab Solo 7C Speakers | Audio-Technica ATH-M50xBT2 LE Headphones | TC-Helicon GoXLR | Audio-Technica AT2035 | LTT Desk Mat | XBOS-X Controller | Windows 11 Pro

 

Spoiler

Server: Fractal Design Define R6 | Ryzen 3950x | ASRock X570 Taichi | EVGA GTX1070 FTW | 64GB (4x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000Mhz | Corsair RM850v2 PSU | Fractal S36 Triple AIO | 10 x 8TB HGST Ultrastar He10 (WD Whitelabel) | 500GB Aorus Gen4 NVMe | 2 x 1TB Crucial P1 NVMe | LSI 9211-8i HBA

 

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