iPhone XR Wins Best Single Camera Award

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

Now, personally I don't really "get" the desire to take a random picture of a band at a concert from 20+ meters away with everyone's hands (most likely holding their own phone) in the middle of the shot, or of anything really on a shopping trip - but I guess that depends on you

The simple fact that these acts are so common does not change just because you don't understand why people do them. Being able to do stuff like that well is important to a lot of people. 

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The simple fact that these acts are so common does not change just because you don't understand why people do them. Being able to do stuff like that well is important to a lot of people. 

That's not the core of what I'm contesting though. I'm saying that having the "best" phone camera is completely irrelevant in those scenarios.

[Brooksie359]

10 hours ago, schwellmo92 said:

720p is HD though, you’re wrong. What do you consider HD?

1080p is commonly referred to as HD. It is technically full HD but almost Nobody refers to 720p when they talk about HD. Honestly to even consider anything below 1080p on a 750 dollar phone is clearly a scumbag cost cutting measure.  The phone is overpriced. 

[Commodus]

25 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I can and will when quality matters. When it doesn't, any modern phone will do just fine.

I'd be hard pressed to call any photo generated by a half decent phone "lousy" nowadays - unless I were to compare it with a dedicated camera. Furthermore, if you're taking pictures on a date chances are they'll be selfies, in which case the award winning "best" camera won't even be used.

 

It also doesn't need to be a DSLR or even a mirrorless to be better than any phone, but point-and-shoots are dying because people clearly don't care about quality photos on the go enough to buy one.

 

Now, personally I don't really "get" the desire to take a random picture of a band at a concert from 20+ meters away with everyone's hands (most likely holding their own phone) in the middle of the shot, or of anything really on a shopping trip - but I guess that depends on you.

Hey, please don't presume to speak for others' experiences! Just recently I went on a date where we toured the Christmas lights downtown... I got a few great photos out of that.

 

As for concerts?  Well, if you have a good position near the front or a phone with a telephoto lens (ideally both), you can get some good shots.  I don't like those people who sit there recording the entire concert on their phones, but I think it's worthwhile to snap a photo or two (and maybe a short video) to remember what it was like.  And on shopping trips... well, occasionally you'll see something surprising on the street, among other things.

 

The problem with point-and-shoots is that most of them actually aren't that compelling these days.  They tend to be either rudimentary "junior's first camera" types with 3X zoom and lackluster sensors, or touristy cameras with 30X zoom but few other redeeming features.  And the really nice ones that would make you use them over a good phone camera tend to cost as much as a nice mirrorless or DSLR.

 

For that matter, there's one overriding problem even if you discount the bulk of carrying them: they're not very smart.  At best, you can pair them with your phone and transfer photos.  But there's no real direct sharing, and there's not even a hint of the computational photography at work in the latest smartphones.  You might actually get better dynamic range out of a Pixel 3 or iPhone XS than most point-and-shoots, and you certainly won't get something like Google's Night Sight or Top Shot.  So why would I settle for an inferior point-and-shoot when I can use a good phone?

[D13H4RD]

6 hours ago, Commodus said:

As for concerts?  Well, if you have a good position near the front or a phone with a telephoto lens (ideally both), 

The "telephoto" would really only work in outdoor concerts. 

 

If the concert itself is occurring in relatively low light, the phone's camera firmware is programmed to switch to a crop of the main camera due to the significantly reduced ability of the secondary module to sense light. 

 

I think there's still a reason why I've decked out my a6000 

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

I think there's still a reason why I've decked out my a6000

Which is infinitely less portable, convenient, lacks endurance in terms of battery life, and probably requires you to edit the photo after (assuming you're shooting in RAW like you should be if you're going to tout DSLRs), and also has inferior video and audio recording capabilities* 

 

iPhone XR can record video with dynamic HDR in 4K which takes the same smartHDR technology on iPhone XR/s (Max) to video

 

So actually iPhone XR would probably capture a better photos and videos in low light conditions than you're DSLR, even when shooting RAW, thanks to how much on board processing can be done with the A12 Bionic. 

[D13H4RD]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

*snip*

Boi, it's pocketable with the stock kit lens. Which I don't use because I use bigger primes. 

 

Seriously though, computational photography is nice but that's not why I still use an a6000. The only thing that can replace it is an a6500 or an X-T3 

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

Seriously though, computational photography is nice 

Yes, yes it is. That is why it performs so well in testing for a smartphone camera designed for point and shoot captures. 

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yes, yes it is. That is why it performs so well in testing for a smartphone camera designed for point and shoot captures. 

Which is not how I use my camera. Even for quick snaps, I keep my a6000 in Aperture Priority 

 

I've been in situations where even super intelligent software doesn't give me desired results. I prefer just doing the work myself unless I legitimately have zero time to frame and adjust 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, D13H4RD said:

Which is not how I use my camera. Even for quick snaps, I keep my a6000 in Aperture Priority 

Ok, so you knew that, in your view, smartphone cameras are irrelevant to you.....just gonna leave that there. 

[mynameisjuan]

16 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

So actually iPhone XR would probably capture a better photos and videos in low light conditions than you're DSLR, even when shooting RAW, thanks to how much on board processing can be done with the A12 Bionic. 

Bahahahaha.....you cannot be serious...

[D13H4RD]

3 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Ok, so you knew that, in your view, smartphone cameras are irrelevant to you.....just gonna leave that there. 

Not completely irrelevant. 

 

I use the camera on my Note8 for snapshots (quick shots with basic composition) when I don't want to think too much about composition or settings or when I want to send off an image to a friend or client. They have their uses.

 

But I'm a pixel peeper and have lately developed an absolute critical eye for detail and such (you might call me a bit of a perfectionist). And really, whilst the quality of smartphone cameras have certainly eclipsed consumer point and shoots, there are still use cases where a bigger sensor is better. And I think DSLR comparisons are still a little bit "infant", especially when we talk about background blur. 

 

And no, I've tried every single portrait mode, and they look pretty poop in comparison to "natural" bokeh 

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Bahahahaha.....you cannot be serious...

You could watch the video I linked? And see the evidence for yourself? 

[D13H4RD]

8 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

You could watch the video I linked? And see the evidence for yourself? 

That's a Canon though? 

[mynameisjuan]

12 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

You could watch the video I linked? And see the evidence for yourself? 

I did see the video and sure, shots looked good on the iphone but lets see 100% crops and lets gets raws that we can fully process and then lets compare.

[mynameisjuan]

4 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

That's a Canon though? 

Could of been an a7iii and he would still boast the iphone has a better camera. 

 

Lets see a7iii low light footage vs XS, I am sure the XS would win right       /s

[D13H4RD]

7 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Could of been an a7iii and he would still boast the iphone has a better camera. 

 

Lets see a7iii low light footage vs XS, I am sure the XS would win right       /s

I'm interested in how it stacks up against a D850

 

Because apparently, the DR on that camera is really good

[DrMacintosh]

8 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

shots looked good on the iphone but lets see 100% crops and lets gets raws that we can fully process and then lets compare.

He did that....in the video

 

6 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Lets see a7iii low light footage vs XS, I am sure the XS would win right       /s

If you've got to compare a $2,000 Camera to a $750 phone then I think Apple has accomplished their goal for the XR and Xs. 

[D13H4RD]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

He did that....in the video

 

If you've got to compare a $2,000 Camera to a $750 phone then I think Apple has accomplished their goal for the XR and Xs. 

Pretty sure Apple's goal is to have a phone camera that performs quickly and is able to shoot and process a shot in a manner that delivers more-than-decent results in a number of conditions.

 

Their goal wasn't to beat an a7iii or a D850 or a 5D Mark IV because that would be silly. 

[DrMacintosh]

5 minutes ago, D13H4RD said:

Their goal wasn't to beat an a7iii or a D850 or a 5D Mark IV because that would be silly. 

Of course not. But when you have to start bringing out cameras like that, just to be smug that it’s better than a camera like this

 

....then yeah, I think the Camera team in the giant space donut are pretty happy with what they made. 

[mynameisjuan]

14 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

He did that....in the video

No he didnt. No crops, no raw. 

 

14 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

If you've got to compare a $2,000 Camera to a $750 phone then I think Apple has accomplished their goal for the XR and Xs. 

So let me get your logic straight. You post a video of a XR vs a $2700 DSLR and claim that its better than a DSLR, so I say compare video of DSLR to XR and you just say apple wins....

 

Your logic is getting worse and worse by the day here. A DSLR is not meant to take JPGs straight from the camera and publish/print them. You are using the large sensor and raw abilities to pull out as much detail and accurate color as possible. 

 

So saying a phone that takes HDR shots, which if you didnt know if multiple shots it shoots better photos than a DSLR that shoots a single shot will generic processing. No fucking shit. Now take the photos to the PC and watch the XR/XS get spanked.

 

For shits and giggles here is iphone X vs a point and shoots at $500 and spanks the iphone

 

 

And vs a $350 Sony Rx100, handidly spanking the iphone.

 

[D13H4RD]

12 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Your logic is getting worse and worse by the day here. A DSLR is not meant to take JPGs straight from the camera and publish/print them. You are using the large sensor and raw abilities to pull out as much detail and accurate color as possible. 

I think it also depends on the intent of the user 

 

For those who just takes snapshots and posting them onto Facebook or Instagram, the iPhone and even an entry-level camera will do the job fine. The quality is more than decent enough and the detail advantages are pretty much eradicated due to the heavy lossy compression applied on uploading. 

 

But those who like photography or do it as a profession and want to tweak photos and experiment with them, an upper end DSLR or mirrorless is the better fit due to their more capable sensors amongst other things. 

 

It's funny because I've always found it fun to stretch the capabilities of my phone's camera with manual adjustments and taking RAW files but it makes me cringe a bit to see people buying an A7Riii and not knowing how to even compose. 

[DrMacintosh]

8 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

No crops, no raw. 

He most definitely does use raw photos to bring up darks and lower highlights. Maybe I’m thinking of another photographer, but the iPhone still won either way. 

 

8 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

For shits and giggles here is iphone X vs a point and shoots at $500 and spanks the iphone

iPhone X doesn’t have smartHDR or the new ISP or the 8-Core neural engine

 

9 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

So saying a phone that takes HDR shots, which if you didnt know if multiple shots it shoots better photos than a DSLR that shoots a single shot will generic processing. No fucking shit. Now take the photos to the PC and watch the XR/XS get spanked.

Can’t really tell what you are trying to say here. Yes the, smartHDR on the iPhone is made possible my taking many photos in rapid succession at different exposure levels and combining them into 1, well exposed image. 

 

Shooting in RAW and trying to manipulate the image to expose it properly results in a loss of detail. You can’t enhance data the sensor never got, something the new iPhones don’t have to deal with.

 

As for bringing the photos to a PC.....I don’t understand what you’re trying to say there. Are you implying that if you threw a RAW photo into Lightroom and tried to expose it properly, unless you had a $2,000 camera you’d be wrong because of what I said above^

 

13 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Your logic is getting worse and worse by the day here. A DSLR is not meant to take JPGs straight from the camera and publish/print them. You are using the large sensor and raw abilities to pull out as much detail and accurate color as possible. 

And like I said, unless you spend money on the big guns, iPhone XR is going to capture more detail, but admittedly probably less accurate color, than a DSLR taking a single RAW photo. 

[mynameisjuan]

1 minute ago, D13H4RD said:

I think it also depends on the intent of the user 

 

For those who just takes snapshots and posting them onto Facebook or Instagram, the iPhone and even an entry-level camera will do the job fine. The quality is more than decent enough and the detail advantages are pretty much eradicated due to the heavy lossy compression applied on uploading. 

 

But those who like photography or do it as a profession and want to tweak photos and experiment with them, an upper end DSLR or mirrorless is the better fit due to their more capable sensors amongst other things. 

 

It's funny because I've always found it fun to stretch the capabilities of my phone's camera with manual adjustments and taking RAW files but it makes me cringe a bit to see people buying an A7Riii and not knowing how to even compose. 

Oh no doubt its dependent on the user. 

 

Look at MKB's latest video and what photos were chosen as the best. If you just use snapchat or instagram then it honestly doesnt matter what camera you use. I have been saying that for years now. People preferred the blackberry over the XS. Thats says all. 

 

But people like you and me (I stopped doing professional photography 2 years ago) the difference in camera quality is HUGE once you get the photo on the big screen. Noise, artifacts, smearing, its all looks terrible on printed paper or billboards. 

 

People who see what a DSLR can do compared to a phone will never agree that a phone with a .2" sensor and a FIXED lens will every be better than a full frame with a gorgeous F1.8 50mm bokeh lens that makes you orgasm upon holding. 

[D13H4RD]

5 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Can’t really tell what you are trying to say here. Yes the, smartHDR on the iPhone is made possible my taking many photos in rapid succession at different exposure levels and combining them into 1, well exposed image. 

I think his point is that any camera can benefit from that. The iPhone does it inside the phone itself because it is able to do so due to the enhanced NPU. 

 

Even high end DSLRs don't have that capability because it is difficult to process those photos in real time in-camera without a significant deficit in performance, particularly due to the larger amount of information that these larger sensors can capture. Even still, because these larger sensors can capture so much information, you can get relatively close to the XR's final output with a single exposure on these cameras. 

 

With all that said, rumor has it that Sony is experimenting with computational photography in the next generation of mirrorless cameras