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is the nh-d15 overrated?

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Go to solution Solved by Stefan Payne,
19 hours ago, ears_ears said:

Sorry for bumping, but I found absolutely NOTHING that suggests the D15 is in any way better than the LGM even with its dual fan setup

You have to look at Reviews that use at least a soldered CPU -> AMD FX, Intel LGA2011 at the time.

 

Cooler Tests with Intel Consumer Plattform with Ivy Bridge or later are just useless horseshit and can be ignored because the TIM is the limiting factor.

 

So even if the NH-D15 would be able to cool 450W at 100%, you can't get a notable difference with that system towards a good single tower because the TIM can't conduct more heat from the die...

 

Hardwareluxx for example uses that:

Prozessor Intel Core i7-4790K (4,2 GHz)

And that's just horseshit and makes the "Review" almost useless for highest end coolers.

No... It is the top of the line air cooling, silent, easy mount and performance... but I'll give you that it's looks are awful and Noctua must do better work on that, lately I've been recommending the Dark Rock Pro 4 instead across the board since it's nearly the same while looking waaaay better.

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Just now, Princess Cadence said:

No... It is the top of the line air cooling, silent, easy mount and performance... but I'll give you that it's looks are awful and Noctua must do better work on that, lately I've been recommending the Dark Rock Pro 4 instead across the board since it's nearly the same while looking waaaay better.

but why is LGM a tier below when it's ever so slightly cooler at max load max oc, quieter and easy mount too?

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I have Dark Rock 4 cooling R7 2700x, and from performance charts I found on the web, its almost identical performance-wise. And it looks miles better. So yea, its a little bit overrated.

Main system: i7 8700k 5Ghz / Asus Prime Z370-A / Corsair Vengeance 2x8GB 3000Mhz / Asus TUF RTX3080 / EVGA 750W GQ / Fractal Design Meshify C

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well you should ask the reviewers these questions

the d15 is great cooler and the company is great at supporting their products (remember free mounting kits for new sockets?)

MSI GX660 + i7 920XM @ 2.8GHz + GTX 970M + Samsung SSD 830 256GB

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9 minutes ago, ears_ears said:

but why is LGM a tier below when it's ever so slightly cooler at max load max oc, quieter and easy mount too?

Two top of the line, silent, really long lasting fans vs. one fan from a relatively unknown company.

 

2 > 1

 

Noctua fans make up the difference. 

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On 12/6/2018 at 8:24 PM, Neftex said:

well you should ask the reviewers these questions

the d15 is great cooler and the company is great at supporting their products (remember free mounting kits for new sockets?)

That's not my point, my point is that the D15 is too high up on the tier list compared to other products like windale 6, LGM, macho direct etc

 

On 12/6/2018 at 8:25 PM, corrado33 said:

Two top of the line, silent, really long lasting fans vs. one fan from a relatively unknown company.

 

2 > 1

 

Noctua fans make up the difference. 

I really hate when people say things like this...

Unless there's a real world benefit (which the benchmarks *clearly* do not show) then why bother mentioning that useless fact?

Also drop the adjectives, the LGM's single fan is also "top of the line, silent, and really long lasting". Use benchmarks, not words, to prove your point.

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2 minutes ago, ears_ears said:

I really hate when people say things like this...

 

Unless there's a real world benefit (which the benchmarks *clearly* do not show) then why bother mentioning that useless fact?

 

Also drop the useless adjectives, the LGM's single fan is also "top of the line, silent, and really long lasting". Use benchmarks, not words, to prove your point.

 

Feisty one aren't we? First an argument over the PSU list, now an argument over the CPU cooler list? You're off to a great start.

 

2 fans is better than one simply for redundancy. If your 1 fan fails, you're fucked. Plus push pull configs have shown to be superior to single fan configs for a long time. 

 

https://www.kitguru.net/components/cooling/dominic-moass/fan-config-does-it-matter-testing-push-vs-pull-vs-pushpull/2/

 

Anything else you'd like to argue about mr Angry?

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4 minutes ago, ears_ears said:

I really hate when people say things like this...

 

Unless there's a real world benefit (which the benchmarks *clearly* do not show) then why bother mentioning that useless fact?

 

Also drop the useless adjectives, the LGM's single fan is also "top of the line, silent, and really long lasting". Use benchmarks, not words, to prove your point.

 

TBF, there is a real world benefit if the Noctua fans last longer. If you look at average performance figures over the course of 5 years and the non-Noctua fans die after 3 years then the performance difference between the coolers during those last 2 years will be massive. It will average out to a much better overall performance for Noctua.

Or if you choose to shell out to replace the dead fans then that greatly affects the price to performance figures, again giving a massive advantage to Noctua.

But that's based on the premise of the Noctuas lasting longer. I'm not saying that's necessarily true, but I think that's part of what the other guy was saying.

 

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A comparison:

  • Fans are known and tested to be reliable and silent (But so are bequiet!'s and NoiseBlocker's) The TY-14X series fans are known for having ticking develop over time (albeit not occurring often). Honestly, the reported info on the fans are similar, but the datasheets almost always lie.
  • LGM (159mm) is above the standard max-height for a CPU cooler (165mm 155mm is the normal max). Although it'd almost certainly fit, most people don't want to risk it. The Noctua D15 is 165mm tall.
  • RMAs from both companies are very easy (In my experience)
  • Noctua often adds support for older coolers. (I've not seen TR do this, but they may)

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11 minutes ago, Imbellis said:

A comparison:

  • Fans are known and tested to be reliable and silent (But so are bequiet!'s and NoiseBlocker's) The TY-14X series fans are known for having ticking develop over time (albeit not occurring often). Honestly, the reported info on the fans are similar, but the datasheets almost always lie.
  • LGM (159mm) is above the standard max-height for a CPU cooler (155mm is the normal max). Although it'd probably fit, most people don't want to risk it.
  • RMAs from both companies are very easy (In my experience)
  • Noctua often adds support for older coolers. (I've not seen TR do this, but they may)

The D15 is also above 155 mm... by an even larger amount even. I've only ever run into one case that couldn't fit it though, although I generally run full atx with mid tower or full tower cases. 

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I also thought about this, why TLGMRT in tier 3 rather than in tier 2 together with D15?

If it wasn't about I wanted to get the aesthetics of black Chromax D15 + NA-HC4 black, I would've get the TLGMRT big time! But I need that sleek elegant looks of this, if it's not about this ?, TLGMRT is my top list for raw performance plus full compatibility (no conflict with other components at all) plus more quiet plus cheaper..

1250415713_WhatsAppImage2018-12-07at09_50_16.jpeg.afcd6314bb092b14e68d3713feb32e85.jpeg

1874775494_WhatsAppImage2018-12-07at09_44_36.jpeg.02ea6e803fb20fcf4e1c1e4d7b207953.jpeg

1095761512_WhatsAppImage2018-12-07at09_46_20.jpeg.f13337339824f60e58441399c23a0146.jpeg

My system specs:

Spoiler

CPU: Intel Core i7-8700K, 5GHz Delidded LM || CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-C14S w/ NF-A15 & NF-A14 Chromax fans in push-pull cofiguration || Motherboard: MSI Z370i Gaming Pro Carbon AC || RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2x8Gb 2666 || GPU: EVGA GTX 1060 6Gb FTW2+ DT || Storage: Samsung 860 Evo M.2 SATA SSD 250Gb, 2x 2.5" HDDs 1Tb & 500Gb || ODD: 9mm Slim DVD RW || PSU: Corsair SF600 80+ Platinum || Case: Cougar QBX + 1x Noctua NF-R8 front intake + 2x Noctua NF-F12 iPPC top exhaust + Cougar stock 92mm DC fan rear exhaust || Monitor: ASUS VG248QE || Keyboard: Ducky One 2 Mini Cherry MX Red || Mouse: Logitech G703 || Audio: Corsair HS70 Wireless || Other: XBox One S Controler

My build logs:

 

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3 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

The D15 is also above 155 mm... by an even larger amount even. I've only ever run into one case that couldn't fit it though, although I generally run full atx with mid tower or full tower cases. 

Oof. Fixing that. Thought the standard was 155, but it's 165. I'm fixing that. Thanks for the notice.

 

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Also, nearly every tech website that has a CPU cooler comparison has rated the NH-D15 (or D14) at the top or very near the top. Lots of sites that have their own testing setup and have probably installed more CPU coolers than you'll touch in your lifetime. 

 

OMG. I just realized what the OP is arguing about.

 

In the OP it shows that whatever air cooler he's pulling for performs 0.25 degrees C better than the noctua. A WHOLE QUARTER OF A DEGREE. (Note, the temp sensors used in PC components aren't accurate to a quarter of a degree.) 

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3 hours ago, ears_ears said:

but why is LGM a tier below when it's ever so slightly cooler at max load max oc, quieter and easy mount too?

This was something I've been looking into for the past week. The LGMRT is slightly worse than it seems when you move away from medium and into heavier loads.

2 hours ago, corrado33 said:

Two top of the line, silent, really long lasting fans vs. one fan from a relatively unknown company.

2 > 1

Noctua fans make up the difference. 

You're correct in that the two fans make the difference in performance. I don't remember the article / test link but the LGMRT with an additional fan matches the NH-D15 in performance.

Thermalright is or at least was very well known for their cpu coolers. Their Silver Arrow was one of the big contenders to the NH-D14 and their TY-14x fan blades are reminiscent of Noctua's NF-P14.

37eaaba7_NF-A14A15TY-140seriesblade.jpeg

2 hours ago, Imbellis said:

Oof. Fixing that. Thought the standard was 155, but it's 165. I'm fixing that. Thanks for the notice.

There are various common cooler clearances in cases but I'd put the standard at Hyper 212 158mm or NH-D14 160mm. 

 

To answer the thread title:

I don't think the NH-D15 is overrated. It's consistently among the best performing of air coolers, is reliable, easy to install, and quiet.

The NH-D14 on the other hand, probably is. For one, it isn't very quiet with its differently-sized non-pwm fans on the mainstream model.

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The NH-D15S is the 1 fan version of the NH-D15. Anything else concerned, they're both the same. 

 

That being said, in all the benchmarks I've viewed the LGM is pretty consistent being +-1 or 2 degrees from the NH-D15 AND the NH-D15S, which can be attributed to margin of error (1 or 2 degrees really isn't going to make or break an overclock). Also, the difference in temperature between the NH-D15 and the NH-D15S seems to be around 1-3 degrees on average, which again can be attributed to margin of erro but most likely the second fan pumping out some airflow. It seems like the center fan is really the only fan that actually matters. And also, that second fan WILL decrease temps slightly on the CPU, but will also slightly increase temps on the VRMs by bleeding hot air across the mobo. 

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3646809/noctua-d15-fan-fans.html

 

On 12/6/2018 at 9:02 PM, corrado33 said:

Also, nearly every tech website that has a CPU cooler comparison has rated the NH-D15 (or D14) at the top or very near the top. Lots of sites that have their own testing setup and have probably installed more CPU coolers than you'll touch in your lifetime. 

 

OMG. I just realized what the OP is arguing about.

 

In the OP it shows that whatever air cooler he's pulling for performs 0.25 degrees C better than the noctua. A WHOLE QUARTER OF A DEGREE. (Note, the temp sensors used in PC components aren't accurate to a quarter of a degree.) 

I'm arguing that the LGM doesn't deserve to be a full tier below the NH-D15 just because it's not as well known.

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1 minute ago, ears_ears said:

I'm arguing that the LGM doesn't deserve to be a full tier below the NH-D15 just because it's not as well known.

14 minutes ago, ears_ears said:

The NH-D15S is the 1 fan version of the NH-D15. Anything else concerned, they're both the same. 

It's not lower because it's not as well known. Consider that the NH-D15S is in the same tier as the LGMRT.

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Let me chip in here,

 

having a reputable brand produce products usually means better quality control, which if the parts they use are higher quality (Noctua from my experience is  high quality) they'll last longer and have less of a chance to arrive DOA.

 

Cooling capability wise unless there are differences in surface area, material quality or features i.e. the amount fans you can mount it won't matter much.

A cooler isn't exactly something you can f*ck up easily, unless of course you aren't trying or bear the feared name  of "Intel stock cooler" xD

Is it overrated?

I'd say it isn't, it's a quality product a lot of people use.

It doesn't have the looks, but it does what it says on the tin and it does it well.

 

To be fair I myself use an Scythe Mugen Max with push/pull 140MM Fans, but that is because it was readily available when I built this system and the NH-D15 was out of stock at most places .. somehow.

When the PC is acting up haunted,

who ya gonna call?
"Monotone voice" : A local computer store.

*Terrible joke I know*

 

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13 hours ago, Sfekke said:

Let me chip in here,

 

having a reputable brand produce products usually means better quality control, which if the parts they use are higher quality (Noctua from my experience is  high quality) they'll last longer and have less of a chance to arrive DOA.

 

Cooling capability wise unless there are differences in surface area, material quality or features i.e. the amount fans you can mount it won't matter much.

A cooler isn't exactly something you can f*ck up easily, unless of course you aren't trying or bear the feared name  of "Intel stock cooler" xD

Is it overrated?

I'd say it isn't, it's a quality product a lot of people use.

It doesn't have the looks, but it does what it says on the tin and it does it well.

 

To be fair I myself use an Scythe Mugen Max with push/pull 140MM Fans, but that is because it was readily available when I built this system and the NH-D15 was out of stock at most places .. somehow.

thermalright is also high quality, my question is why the NH-D15 is higher up on the tier list than the LGM if they're the same temps/performance...

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28 minutes ago, ears_ears said:

thermalright is also high quality, my question is why the NH-D15 is higher up on the tier list than the LGM if they're the same temps/performance...

Because more people have used it, it's widely accepted as a high quality cooler; it's well known.. end of story.

I wouldn't look for a concrete answer, as all you'll get is harsh responses because you seem to have a unwarranted distaste for noctua.

 

TL;DR and probably my last post on this thread :

More people use it, making it better known and a tried and true method of cooling your CPU.

When the PC is acting up haunted,

who ya gonna call?
"Monotone voice" : A local computer store.

*Terrible joke I know*

 

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1 minute ago, Sfekke said:

Because more people have used it, it's widely accepted as a high quality cooler; it's well known.. end of story.

I wouldn't look for a concrete answer, as all you'll get is harsh responses because you seem to have a unwarranted distaste for noctua.

 

TL;DR and probably my last post on this thread :

More people use it, making it better known and a tried and true method of cooling your CPU.

tldr; brand loyalty is why the nhd15 is 1 tier above the LGM 

 

i get it now, thanks for explaining

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4 hours ago, ears_ears said:

tldr; brand loyalty is why the nhd15 is 1 tier above the LGM 

i get it now, thanks for explaining

Did you read the post I linked? If not, I'll just paste it here:

Quote

This is something that I've been thinking about for the past week and it seems that tests that aren't as heavy show the Le Grand Macho RT as a similar or better performer which makes sense since the heatsink design is more suitable for passive or low rpm cooling. The cooler is held back by the low rpm fan and catches up to the NH-D15 when a second fan is added. When loads are heavier, results often show the LGMRT perform similarly to or worse than the NH-D15S or similar coolers. 

 

Some examples:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermalright/Le_Grand_Macho/6.html

The LGMRT performs better than or similar to the NH-D15 at stock but starts to fall behind as the cpu is oc'ed and temps rise.

http://pcfoster.pl/artykul/thermalright-macho-le-grand-rt-–-test-chlodzenia/1655-4.html

The LMGRT is just behind the NH-D15 at stock but falls behind the NH-D15S when the cpu is oc'ed. 

https://whatnext.pl/test-chlodzenia-thermalright-le-grand-macho-rt/

The LMGRT is falls further behind the Fuma and Ninja 4 as voltage is raised.

 

In general, the LMGRT performs similarly to or slightly worse than other T3 coolers like the NH-D15S or the Ninja 4:

https://www.nikktech.com/main/articles/pc-hardware/cpu-cooling/cpu-air-coolers/7107-thermalright-le-grand-macho-rt-cpu-cooler-review?showall=&start=5

http://hardwareoverclock.com/Thermalright-Le-Grand-Macho-RT-5.htm

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/kuehlung/38997-thermalright-le-grand-macho-mit-ty-147-b-im-nachtest.html?start=4

https://overclockers.ru/lab/show/73449_4/obzor-i-testirovanie-passivnoj-sistemy-ohlazhdeniya-thermalright-le-grand-macho

 

Plenty of coolers in T3 perform similarly to or even better than coolers in T2 in some tests but that isn't the norm. Even the NH-D15S ends up beating out the NH-D15 in parts of the TechPowerUp review.

The LGMRT matches or falls behind the NH-D15S half the time and only just matches the NH-D15 in a few cases. 

Beating the NH-D15 in a test result or two out of many doesn't mean it's just as good.

Here's another example of how lower loads don't differentiate coolers well: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6958/cryorig-h7-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

The H7 beats the NH-D14 at stock. The performance flips and the gap is wider once oc'ed. 

Yes, these are true, real-life results but they won't reflect the norm. 

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3 minutes ago, WoodenMarker said:

Did you read the post I linked? If not, I'll just paste it here:

The LGMRT matches or falls behind the NH-D15S half the time and only just matches the NH-D15 in a few cases. 

Beating the NH-D15 in a test result or two out of many doesn't mean it's just as good.

Here's another example of how lower loads don't differentiate coolers well: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/6958/cryorig-h7-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

The H7 beats the NH-D14 at stock. The performance flips and the gap is wider once oc'ed. 

Yes, these are true, real-life results but they won't reflect the norm. 

The OP doesn't want to listen to reason or data. He just wants to argue. 

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1 minute ago, corrado33 said:

He just wants to argue. 

I do believe there's a case to be had. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense for me to have been thinking about this for the past week. 

'Common sense' with how the LGMRT is supposed to be better than the Macho Rev. B along with benchmarks showing it performing similarly to the NH-D15 had me suspecting if it should be moved up. This tends to happen to many coolers on the tier list but I tend to find the result I originally settled on as correct after double and triple-checking old reviews as well as trying to find new ones for a better comparison. 

If you ever need help with a build, read the following before posting: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/3061-build-plan-thread-recommendations-please-read-before-posting/
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