RED Weapon Unboxing

[scottyseng]

2 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

-snip-

Ah, you might be right about that. C700 launch was also a few months ago...probably after they bought them. Yeah, I think 6K is reasonable enough for the people that want to crop in after the shoot or use digital stabilizers / other software tweaks.

 

Yeah, I can't see much demand for 8KHD quite yet...the storage demand is high. The CPU / processing power exceeds most people's PCs to edit it. Heck, 8KHD playback is hard as well. I do wonder when the shift to 8KHD will happen though. Or at least when the cameras can be rented so I can rent one for fun some day just to play with. haha.

 

Dang, the storage requirements for 8K Red Raw hurts...

[LinusTech]

Why did we do this? 

 

Same reason we water cooled a room worth of computers. 

 

Same reason we built a 1PB storage server. 

 

Same reason we diy built a desk PC. 

 

Same reason we do anything.

 

Because it's fun and frickin awesome. 

[Taf the Ghost]

The rage was pretty good. You clearly left the "playing it up a bit" mode into legitimate "why did I ever let Brandon convince me of this" to "I should probably fire Brandon, but I also can't probably return this camera" mode.  For out entertainment, it was great.  As a business proposition? I hope the video goes massively viral.

[Shutter]

12 hours ago, The Falcon said:

Can someone explain to me why though? 

I get almost every movie on earth is shot on RED cameras, I get that it is 8K but soon cannon, sony etc will have 8K sensors right. 

I honestly can not tell the difference in sharpness at 4K between his videos from last year and this year. 

What is the value of you spending $200k on a RED camera? 

 

 

Almost every move certainly is not shot on RED.  Most are shot on Arri Alexa.  Red has fallen out of favor on many movies because they aren't simple enough.  They end up being a ball of cables that camera assistants dont want to deal with.  The image while high resolution lacks some of the milky smooth qualities of the Alexa.  If you think Red is bad on price Alexa is about double.  They are worse on accessories than red is too.  Pro gear is expensive.  You should only buy it if it will make you money.  Im guessing Linus has plenty and is trying to future proof.

 

Years back I bought a Red One camera.  I was lucky to be a very early adopter.  This has led me into a career in the film industry working with the cameras and their footage on some of the biggest budget films over the last decade. I'm currently working on what will end up being the biggest budget movie ever. Red has been great giving upgrade discounts and incredible incentives to their loyal customers.  But I know its crazy expensive to get into.  Renting the camera was profitable and along the way I've upgraded several times, reinvesting my profits into more equipment.  Today I own 2 Red Weapon Heliums 2x Alexa SXTs 2x Alexa minis and a sony F55.  Its was all acquired step by step.   And only happened after taking a leap of faith on buying a camera that was insanely expensive for me as a college student.  Im not saying this to brag, Im just trying to illustrate that these cameras are an investment,  they can be a very good investment.

[AkiraDaarkst]

45 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Why did we do this? 

 

Same reason we water cooled a room worth of computers. 

 

Same reason we built a 1PB storage server. 

 

Same reason we diy built a desk PC. 

 

Same reason we do anything.

 

Because it's fun and frickin awesome. 

I'm sure setting off a nuclear bomb would be awesome too.  Just think about how beautiful the mushroom cloud would look and the momentary bright glow of the explosion that would be as bright as the sun.

[Shutter]

28 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Why did we do this? 

 

Same reason we water cooled a room worth of computers. 

 

Same reason we built a 1PB storage server. 

 

Same reason we diy built a desk PC. 

 

Same reason we do anything.

 

Because it's fun and frickin awesome. 

 

I wonder, why 1PB of storage when you could put your older original footage into an LTO tape library?  It's much more cost-effective and safer for storage long term.  I'm guessing that you want faster access for editing.  With your older footage, you could use smaller proxy files for an offline edit system and use the tape library to pull back older original footage for the conform. With the weapon, you could record prores and Redcode Raw simultaneously.  Use the Prores as your proxy for the offline system.  No need to transcode. Most of the time the prores proxy may even be good enough to use for the final export. You should look into YoYotta Lto.  

I work film industry on big budget movies handling cameras and data workflows.  I own 2 Helium Weapons.   How have the transcodes been for you?  Kind of a nightmare right now huh?  Red rocket X and GPU acceleration dont work on most helium footage yet.

[LinusTech]

1 minute ago, Shutter said:

I wonder, why 1PB of storage when you could put your older original footage into an LTO tape library?  It's much more cost-effective and safer for storage long term.  I'm guessing that you want faster access for editing.  With your older footage, you could use smaller proxy files for an offline edit system and use the tape library to pull back older original footage for the conform. With the weapon, you could record prores and Redcode Raw simultaneously.  Use the Prores as your proxy for the offline system.  No need to transcode. Most of the time the prores proxy may even be good enough to use for the final export. You should look into YoYotta Lto.  

I work film industry on big budget movies handling cameras and data workflows.  I own 2 Helium Weapons.   How have the transcodes been for you?  Kind of a nightmare right now huh?  Red rocket X and GPU acceleration dont work on most helium footage yet.

Yeah workflow sucks at the moment. We moved our workstations from 4960X to 6950X, doubled up our RAM, and moved our NAS to 40GBit wiht NVMe drives and we're still having some issues with it.

 

But overall the tools are starting to come around. DaVinci Resolve is handling it relatively nicely.. Just needs a bit more maturity before it's truly ready as an editing suite.

 

As for tape, yeah that's probably the route we'll go at some point. I'll likely add another petabyte project-class storage array, but next time it would be to mirror the existing one. Then what we'll do is grab the best possible copy of the finished video for all our past stuff, and move the raw footage to tape. That's a project for next year though.

[The Falcon]

23 minutes ago, Shutter said:

Almost every move certainly is not shot on RED.  Most are shot on Arri Alexa.  Red has fallen out of favor on many movies because they aren't simple enough.  They end up being a ball of cables that camera assistants dont want to deal with.  The image while high resolution lacks some of the milky smooth qualities of the Alexa.  If you think Red is bad on price Alexa is about double.  They are worse on accessories than red is too.  Pro gear is expensive.  You should only buy it if it will make you money.  Im guessing Linus has plenty and is trying to future proof.

 

Years back I bought a Red One camera.  I was lucky to be a very early adopter.  This has led me into a career in the film industry working with the cameras and their footage on some of the biggest budget films over the last decade. I'm currently working on what will end up being the biggest budget movie ever. Red has been great giving upgrade discounts and incredible incentives to their loyal customers.  But I know its crazy expensive to get into.  Renting the camera was profitable and along the way I've upgraded several times, reinvesting my profits into more equipment.  Today I own 2 Red Weapon Heliums 2x Alexa SXTs 2x Alexa minis and a sony F55.  Its was all acquired all step by step.   And only happened after taking a leap of faith on buying a camera that was insanely expensive for me as a college student.  Im not saying this to brag, Im just trying to illustrate that these cameras are an investment,  they can be a very good investment.

Your right not all movies but REDs website lists a lot of them http://www.red.com/shot-on-red including the upcoming Avatars which if Avatar one is anything to go by will look amazing. 

Well done on your career though it sounds like an interesting profession to be in. 

[AkiraDaarkst]

6 minutes ago, The Falcon said:

Your right not all movies but REDs website lists a lot of them http://www.red.com/shot-on-red including the upcoming Avatars which if Avatar one is anything to go by will look amazing. 

Well done on your career though it sounds like an interesting profession to be in. 

You do realize movies like Avatar are more CGI work than actual camera work, don't you?

[AkiraDaarkst]

1 hour ago, scottyseng said:

Ah, you might be right about that. C700 launch was also a few months ago...probably after they bought them. Yeah, I think 6K is reasonable enough for the people that want to crop in after the shoot or use digital stabilizers / other software tweaks.

 

Yeah, I can't see much demand for 8KHD quite yet...the storage demand is high. The CPU / processing power exceeds most people's PCs to edit it. Heck, 8KHD playback is hard as well. I do wonder when the shift to 8KHD will happen though. Or at least when the cameras can be rented so I can rent one for fun some day just to play with. haha.

 

Dang, the storage requirements for 8K Red Raw hurts...

8K will come around... eventually.  But before that there needs to be tools and tech to consume 8K.  4K streaming is still just coming online, it will be years before 8K streaming happens.

[Shutter]

9 hours ago, Terodius said:

Not even hollywood studios are shooting on 8K for 100+ million dollar feature film productions. How on earth is it worth for a youtube channel to spend that kind of money on a camera? Something like 1% of people have 4K monitors to watch your already amazing-looking 4K content. What's the f*cking point on spending that much on a goddamn camera instead of hiring more writers and editors to put out more of your already great quality content? 

 

I have first-hand experience that says otherwise.  Most 100 Million+ movies use 8k Red at some point in production. (Most drone/aerial shots and arrays for VFX)  No, they aren't finishing in 8k but that is a different thing entirely.  Oversampling is important for VFX.

[Gene Sargent]

1 hour ago, LinusTech said:

Why did we do this? 

 

Same reason we water cooled a room worth of computers. 

 

Same reason we built a 1PB storage server. 

 

Same reason we diy built a desk PC. 

 

Same reason we do anything.

 

Because it's fun and frickin awesome. 

I hope you guys get some noticeable benefit from it, because holy crap that's criminal pricing

[AkiraDaarkst]

16 minutes ago, Shutter said:

I have first-hand experience that says otherwise.  Most 100 Million+ movies use 8k Red at some point in production. (Most drone/aerial shots and arrays for VFX)  No, they aren't finishing in 8k but that is a different thing entirely.  Oversampling is important for VFX.

The question is, is Linus filming a 100 Million+ budget movie and planning to distribute it on mediums that take advantage of footage filmed in such a high resolution camera?

[Shutter]

31 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Yeah workflow sucks at the moment. We moved our workstations from 4960X to 6950X, doubled up our RAM, and moved our NAS to 40GBit wiht NVMe drives and we're still having some issues with it.

 

But overall the tools are starting to come around. DaVinci Resolve is handling it relatively nicely.. Just needs a bit more maturity before it's truly ready as an editing suite.

 

As for tape, yeah that's probably the route we'll go at some point. I'll likely add another petabyte project-class storage array, but next time it would be to mirror the existing one. Then what we'll do is grab the best possible copy of the finished video for all our past stuff, and move the raw footage to tape. That's a project for next year though.

 

Sounds like a good plan.  For the time being the Prores recording settings may be a good option to avoid the transcoding slow down.

 

 I envy you using PCs.  Too many tools I need are Mac only.   The movie world is standardized on macs. I'm stuck with the fastest mac pro trash can you can get...and it gets creamed by much cheaper PCs that I could build and customize.  I've thought about going the hackintosh route, but I'm handling millions of dollars worth of footage every day.  I can defend myself if a legitimate mac pro has issues with the footage,   I can't if its a hacked system running a pirated OS.  It's kind of like the old saying in the IT world goes, nobody ever got fired for using Cisco gear.   Same goes for apple in the film world.

 

Im sure you have suppliers that you know and love there in the great white north, but when you decide to make a move on LTO, Give Ron at MAXX Digital a call.  They are fantastic.  They understand the data/IT side as well as the film and video industry side.  Oh, and they are also an authorized Red camera reseller.  I'm getting nothing for plugging them, I'm just a satisfied customer.  They helped my little company out with LTOs etc, on many huge projects. They really came through for us. 

[Shutter]

3 minutes ago, Gene Sargent said:

I hope you guys get some noticeable benefit from it, because holy crap that's criminal pricing

When talking pro Film gear Red prices are nearly nothing.  Individual lenses cost more than that camera.  

[Gene Sargent]

2 minutes ago, Shutter said:

When talking pro Film gear Red prices are nearly nothing.  Individual lenses cost more than that camera.  

That does not make that any more acceptable

[Shutter]

49 minutes ago, The Falcon said:

Your right not all movies but REDs website lists a lot of them http://www.red.com/shot-on-red including the upcoming Avatars which if Avatar one is anything to go by will look amazing. 

Well done on your career though it sounds like an interesting profession to be in. 

 

Oh boy could I tell stories about the guys that did the 3d camera work on Avatar.  I know someone who did the only Red camera shot in the entire 1st avatar movie.  It was just a VFX element of dust in the wind.  Most of that movie was animated, or the 3d would have been considered really bad.  They weren't using very good techniques with their cameras in 3D.

[Shutter]

1 minute ago, Gene Sargent said:

That does not make that any more acceptable

well, think about it this way...  The camera requires a custom image sensor.  Image sensors are like processors, very complicated and often times have a low yield in manufacturing.   Then you need image processing hardware in the camera.  These are custom purpose-built processors.  again expensive to design and manufacture.  Then, you need software to use on the computer side so you can use the footage.  We are talking about a large number of top-notch engineers here.  Your not just paying for a camera you are paying for the engineering that goes into it.  On a low volume item like a Pro level camera, those fixed costs divided by the number of cameras sold is still a lot of overhead.  

 

Its a tool not a toy (or not only a toy).  If you know what you are doing with it,  It will make you money in the long run.

[scottyseng]

2 minutes ago, Shutter said:

Its a tool not a toy (or not only a toy).  If you know what you are doing with it,  It will make you money in the long run.

But my dream of buying a C700 / Arri Alexa to record cat videos...

 

(Just kidding...Though if I get a good job, I do want to buy a cinema camera to play with)

[Shutter]

12 hours ago, The Falcon said:

okay but why has no one been able to compete with RED? I am sure Sony or BlackMagic could make something to compete with RED and bring down the price. 

The only reason RED rapes your left ear is because they the only ones selling what you want right

 

For one Red has a patent on compressed Raw video footage recorded onboard a camera.  So basically if you want Raw AND compressed footage, you are out of luck unless you go with red.  Funny thing though is reds compression is based on the Jpeg 2000, wavelet based compression.  it was just the next step and more frames per second.

[Shutter]

4 minutes ago, scottyseng said:

But my dream of buying a C700 / Arri Alexa to record cat videos...

 

(Just kidding...Though if I get a good job, I do want to buy a cinema camera to play with)

 

funny thing is I just sold a very old Alexa for about 10K someone got a good deal, though it couldn't do anamorphic or record raw without an external recorder...but plenty good enough for cat videos.

[Shutter]

13 hours ago, The Falcon said:

Can someone explain to me why though? 

I get almost every movie on earth is shot on RED cameras, I get that it is 8K but soon cannon, sony etc will have 8K sensors right. 

I honestly can not tell the difference in sharpness at 4K between his videos from last year and this year. 

What is the value of you spending $200k on a RED camera? 

 

It's more than the Ks, its low light performance, its the total number of stops it can record.  Its how the light rolls off in the highlights. It's the color representation and flexibility etc. I was recently working on a movie with this camera in question and the Red Vista Vision.  We were filming at night.  The Red 8k Helium Weapon Kicked the butt of the larger 8k Vista vision dragon sensor.  So much cleaner image in the helium. 

[honna1612]

I dont know why he would burn his money like that.
For that kind of money you could get a real cinema camera and not a ripoff:

Canon Cinema EOS System 8K (compatible with all canon EOS lenses)

Panavision DXL 8K 60fps (60 fps!)

RED is a ripoff company as you can see by the prices of their adapters!

[nishank93]

I'm sure this has been said before, but please please please please can we see an uncut version of this, especially if Brandon's (who I think may have been filming) comments to Linus' outrage were recorded. I will join the floatplane for just this if you decide to put it there. @LinusTech @Slick @nicklmg @TaranLMG LMG people who's forum name I don't, make it happen.

[AkiraDaarkst]

1 hour ago, Shutter said:

It's more than the Ks, its low light performance, its the total number of stops it can record.  Its how the light rolls off in the highlights. It's the color representation and flexibility etc. I was recently working on a movie with this camera in question and the Red Vista Vision.  We were filming at night.  The Red 8k Helium Weapon Kicked the butt of the larger 8k Vista vision dragon sensor.  So much cleaner image in the helium. 

I think most people here that are questioning Linus's decision to get the 8K RED knows that it's a fantastic camera.  We're questioning whether he actually needs one (or two) or not.  He's not:

• filming a big budget movie.
• filming in situations that would utilize the high dynamic range capabilities of the camera, he's mostly shooting indoors in a studio setup with lights.
• filming outdoors at night, he mostly films in his office's "studios" that are artificially lit.
• creating VFX/CGI.
• authoring/distributing high bitrate blu-ray or IMAX theater releases, he's publishing to Youtube.  YouTube 4K bit rate is like 40 Mbps, that's roughly similar to the bit rate of 1080p blu-ray.

 

49 minutes ago, honna1612 said:

I dont know why he would burn his money like that.
For that kind of money you could get a real cinema camera and not a ripoff:

Canon Cinema EOS System 8K (compatible with all canon EOS lenses)

Panavision DXL 8K 60fps (60 fps!)

RED is a ripoff company as you can see by the prices of their adapters!

Canon hasn't even released their 8K camera yet.  They just showed off a prototype (proof of concept) that was housed inside a C300 body (if I remember correctly) last year.