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Intel's 8th Generation Core Processors Won't Be Based on 10nm but 14nm

DocSwag
By DocSwag
in Tech News
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Posted
5 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Zen is 14nm tho :/

Zen+ maybe in 2018 on 10nm?

Globalfoundries is skipping 10nm because they don't believe it will be a long node.  7nm planned for 2018-2019

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4 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Isn't TSMC/GFs 16nm/14nm more like Intel's 22nm~?

Not really.  ASML developed a formula for a "standard node"  value.  

Intel 14nm is 13.5nm

Samsung/GF 14nm is 16.6

Tsmc 16nm is 18.3. 

 

I believe intel 22nm was something like 23nm,  so they could avoid double patterning and lower mask count. 

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5 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's also in Intel's best interest to get smaller nodes as that means cheaper production costs. 

Not anymore, the cost of building new fabs, and R&D for new process node outweights the little gain in lower production cost per chip from stacking more chips per wafer, at least thats what i understand from various tech sites. But if you actually increase core count/transistors count per chip you might end up with chips of similar size as previous node hence your cost for a similar sized chip will be much higher, which is most likely the reason we still dont have 6-8 core i7's at 3-400$ mark and 6-8 core i5 at 2-300$.

But im no expert might be wrong.

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Posted

I find this a bit confusing. So Cannonlake will launch in Q4 2017 in the form of Core M/i(5W~) and Coffe Lake will launch next year as 8th generation on 14nm, what generation does that make Cannonlake? Is it still 7th Gen since it's just a die shrink of Kaby?

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7 hours ago, Qwertious said:

My next build will be a Coffee Lake machine, nothing is is better than a super optimised process node. The 14nm node sounds perfect. A super optimised 7nm node will be half a decade away probably!

So you're one of those people..

I'm going to buy a RX 690xV2! Because I have no information on it but it sounds cool!

 

 

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Posted
8 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Zen is 14nm tho :/

Zen+ maybe in 2018 on 10nm?

Zen+ is on 7nm.

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Posted
9 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Zen is 14nm tho :/

Zen+ maybe in 2018 on 10nm?

It's actually 2019 is 10nm according to their roadmap

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Nice joke lol. If 8th Gen is 14nm as well then i'm not upgrading until 10th gen.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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5 hours ago, Terodius said:

Except that 7 billion is for just one fab, and they have multiple ones making chips for every node. doesn't matter if you're intel or apple, 7 billion dollars is A LOT of money and that cost plus the billions of R&D that go into figuring out how to scale out the process plus the billions of R&D just for making the micro-architecture are a lot of upfront costs. I It's an investment that they factor into the costs of their chips. That's why we pay 300 USD for a piece of silicon that costs 20 USD in materials to make, because there's a median of like 100-150USD worth of R&D and infrastructure amortization in each CPU they sell and the rest is profit. 

You pay $300 because that's what they want you to pay. Its not a matter of recouping the loss. They made BILLIONS, in one year. They arent spending that 7 billion in one year, its being spread of a total of x years. I say x because that's the unknown factor on how much this dives into their profit margins. How me were they spend billions on R&D and I'll say I'm wrong. 

 

If it was so costly as you say, they wouldnt be making 11 billion in pure profit. Remember that while they brought in 76 billion in total revenue, 65 billion went to R&D, and other expenses. 

 

& billion dollars spread over x years. Yeah, its so expensive for a 80 billion dollar company. 

Do you even fanboy bro?

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9 hours ago, MageTank said:

But Intel had Coffee Lake on their official roadmap like, 4-5 months ago. 97pc7s9n.jpg

 

We also knew that it wasn't going to be 10nm either, because of the low yields (Cannonlake will be 10nm, but only for mobile). Even it's wikipedia page stated this ever since October. While it's nice to have a legitimate confirmation, it shouldn't really surprise anyone given how long this information has been circulating (and with Intel themselves mentioning their departure from the standard tick-tock formula in favor of process-architecture-optimization/refinement)

Was this confirmed though? As far as I can tell it all originated from a rumor/leak.

9 hours ago, MoonSpot said:

Thought AMD/Global Foundries was going to try for a jump to 7nm and skip 10nm.  Didn't they pickup assets to do so from IBM a while ago?

 

5 hours ago, Space Reptile said:

they are "working" on 7nm , so theres hope

4 hours ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Globalfoundries is skipping 10nm because they don't believe it will be a long node.  7nm planned for 2018-2019

 

57 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

Zen+ is on 7nm.

My bad. I forgot GF is skipping 10nm. So perhaps zen+ on 7nm in 2019/2020?

8 hours ago, huilun02 said:

I doubt they gonna replace the yet-to-release Ryzen that they worked so hard and long to make, within a year of its release. Unless it underwhelms consumers which I doubt will be the case. 

They're not gonna be scrapping Ryzen, if I recall they said they plan for Ryzen to last 4 years until 2021 or so. Instead they'll just release refinements of Ryzen each year like they did with the bulldozer family except maybe there will be a node shrink in the middle.

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Is Cannonlake going to be on LGA 1151?

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7 hours ago, Terodius said:

It may cost less in terms of silicon/chip but it means investing billions of dollars in new fabs and fab equipment. Just yesterday intel announced it will spend 7 billion dollars on one fab to make it 7nm-ready. 

 

2 hours ago, deviant88 said:

Not anymore, the cost of building new fabs, and R&D for new process node outweights the little gain in lower production cost per chip from stacking more chips per wafer, at least thats what i understand from various tech sites. But if you actually increase core count/transistors count per chip you might end up with chips of similar size as previous node hence your cost for a similar sized chip will be much higher, which is most likely the reason we still dont have 6-8 core i7's at 3-400$ mark and 6-8 core i5 at 2-300$.

But im no expert might be wrong.

Except, at some point, Intel will need to build a 7mm fab. So, the sooner they can do it, the better it is for them. And the reason we don't have 6-8 cores at the $300-$400 mark is because Intel has no competition. 

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1 hour ago, Trav_X said:

Is Cannonlake going to be on LGA 1151?

With intel? I don't think so.

 

I am running on a Z170 and am highly doubting they would reuse this. It's like intel being Apple.

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Sometimes I wonder do we even need to go past 14nm with silicon. The diminishing returns seem to be kicking in as far as manufacturing goes, so why not just keep 14nm until you got that new material to make them on?

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Well, its not like its that much of an enormous difference, especially given the fact nobody should have been expecting a 70% increase in energy efficiency and 50% increase in processing power :p. ARM can certainly get this going faster tough, because we have to love simplicity xD.

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5 hours ago, DarkBlade2117 said:

So you're one of those people..

I'm going to buy a RX 690xV2! Because I have no information on it but it sounds cool!


Well its common sense really... considering the new PAO cadence... if they are to release another CPU on the 14nm node again it will be more optimised than before...

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5 hours ago, Okjoek said:

Sometimes I wonder do we even need to go past 14nm with silicon. The diminishing returns seem to be kicking in as far as manufacturing goes, so why not just keep 14nm until you got that new material to make them on?

10nm might still give some more benefits, but after that I agree, especially since quantum tunneling will become too big of an issue.

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10 hours ago, DocSwag said:

-snip-

As far as we know Zen+ launches next year on 7nm.

       • Pixelbook Go i5 • Pixel 4 XL •

  

                                     

 

 

                                                                           

                                                                              

 

 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Citadelen said:

As far as we know Zen+ launches next year on 7nm.

Really? GF plans on 7nm in 2018?

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Interested in computer architecture? Still in middle or high school? P.M. me!

 

I love computer hardware and feel free to ask me anything about that (or phones). I especially like SSDs. But please do not ask me anything about Networking, programming, command line stuff, or any relatively hard software stuff. I know next to nothing about that.

 

Compooters:

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Desktop:

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CPU: i7 6700k, CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3, Motherboard: MSI Z170a KRAIT GAMING, RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 4x4gb DDR4-2666 MHz, Storage: SanDisk SSD Plus 240gb + OCZ Vertex 180 480 GB + Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 7200 RPM, Video Card: EVGA GTX 970 SSC, Case: Fractal Design Define S, Power Supply: Seasonic Focus+ Gold 650w Yay, Keyboard: Logitech G710+, Mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum, Headphones: B&O H9i, Monitor: LG 29um67 (2560x1080 75hz freesync)

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Laptop (I use it for school):

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Surface book 2 13" with an i7 8650u, 8gb RAM, 256 GB storage, and a GTX 1050

And if you're curious (or a stalker) I have a Just Black Pixel 2 XL 64gb

 

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8 hours ago, DocSwag said:

-snip-

Yep, second half.

       • Pixelbook Go i5 • Pixel 4 XL •

  

                                     

 

 

                                                                           

                                                                              

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Citadelen said:

Yep, second half.

Dang... I wonder if it'll still be silicon based though, seeing as I've heard that silicon on 7nm might pose a lot of problems. One more thing added to the list of things I'm looking forward to in 2018!

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Buy whatever product is best for you, not what product is "best" for the market.

 

Interested in computer architecture? Still in middle or high school? P.M. me!

 

I love computer hardware and feel free to ask me anything about that (or phones). I especially like SSDs. But please do not ask me anything about Networking, programming, command line stuff, or any relatively hard software stuff. I know next to nothing about that.

 

Compooters:

Spoiler

Desktop:

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CPU: i7 6700k, CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3, Motherboard: MSI Z170a KRAIT GAMING, RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 4x4gb DDR4-2666 MHz, Storage: SanDisk SSD Plus 240gb + OCZ Vertex 180 480 GB + Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 7200 RPM, Video Card: EVGA GTX 970 SSC, Case: Fractal Design Define S, Power Supply: Seasonic Focus+ Gold 650w Yay, Keyboard: Logitech G710+, Mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum, Headphones: B&O H9i, Monitor: LG 29um67 (2560x1080 75hz freesync)

Home Server:

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CPU: Pentium G4400, CPU Cooler: Stock, Motherboard: MSI h110l Pro Mini AC, RAM: Hyper X Fury DDR4 1x8gb 2133 MHz, Storage: PNY CS1311 120gb SSD + two Segate 4tb HDDs in RAID 1, Video Card: Does Intel Integrated Graphics count?, Case: Fractal Design Node 304, Power Supply: Seasonic 360w 80+ Gold, Keyboard+Mouse+Monitor: Does it matter?

Laptop (I use it for school):

Spoiler

Surface book 2 13" with an i7 8650u, 8gb RAM, 256 GB storage, and a GTX 1050

And if you're curious (or a stalker) I have a Just Black Pixel 2 XL 64gb

 

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On 10/02/2017 at 3:51 AM, shadowbyte said:

amd pls

AMD? You are aware they floated off their fabs years ago? AMD don't even compete with the part of Intel that this is about.

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3 minutes ago, othertomperson said:

AMD? You are aware they floated off their fabs years ago? AMD don't even compete with the part of Intel that this is about.

I think he's just asking Ryzen to be good enough since Intel isn't moving forward much at all.

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Buy whatever product is best for you, not what product is "best" for the market.

 

Interested in computer architecture? Still in middle or high school? P.M. me!

 

I love computer hardware and feel free to ask me anything about that (or phones). I especially like SSDs. But please do not ask me anything about Networking, programming, command line stuff, or any relatively hard software stuff. I know next to nothing about that.

 

Compooters:

Spoiler

Desktop:

Spoiler

CPU: i7 6700k, CPU Cooler: be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3, Motherboard: MSI Z170a KRAIT GAMING, RAM: G.Skill Ripjaws 4 Series 4x4gb DDR4-2666 MHz, Storage: SanDisk SSD Plus 240gb + OCZ Vertex 180 480 GB + Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 7200 RPM, Video Card: EVGA GTX 970 SSC, Case: Fractal Design Define S, Power Supply: Seasonic Focus+ Gold 650w Yay, Keyboard: Logitech G710+, Mouse: Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum, Headphones: B&O H9i, Monitor: LG 29um67 (2560x1080 75hz freesync)

Home Server:

Spoiler

CPU: Pentium G4400, CPU Cooler: Stock, Motherboard: MSI h110l Pro Mini AC, RAM: Hyper X Fury DDR4 1x8gb 2133 MHz, Storage: PNY CS1311 120gb SSD + two Segate 4tb HDDs in RAID 1, Video Card: Does Intel Integrated Graphics count?, Case: Fractal Design Node 304, Power Supply: Seasonic 360w 80+ Gold, Keyboard+Mouse+Monitor: Does it matter?

Laptop (I use it for school):

Spoiler

Surface book 2 13" with an i7 8650u, 8gb RAM, 256 GB storage, and a GTX 1050

And if you're curious (or a stalker) I have a Just Black Pixel 2 XL 64gb

 

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1 minute ago, DocSwag said:

I think he's just asking Ryzen to be good enough since Intel isn't moving forward much at all.

AMD would have to move a lot further to make up the same ground -- they'd have to take back GlobalFoundries for a start...

 

Intel's 14nm process is already ahead of GlobalFoundries' anyhow, and neither company looks to be ready to move to 7nm particularly soon.

14 hours ago, OptimisticRealist said:

So, 0 innovation then?

 These whining bitches going on about innovation don't seem to be aware of just how close to the edge of what is physically possible with silicon we really are.

 

We've been in this position with GPUs before on 28nm. There's more to a CPU or GPU than the process node. It's not like Intel (or AMD, who are utterly at the mercy of other companies here) have nowhere to go on the same manufacturing process.

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