Does ECC memory require motherboard AND cpu support?

[H0R53]

I don't think there's any benefit of ECC over my current RAM but I am running a Xeon processor in a board that has a modified BIOS. Can I use ECC RAM or does it require motherboard support as well?

[ARikozuM]

You must have a CPU and chipset that supports ECC.

[H0R53]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

chipset

Meaning motherboard support?

[ARikozuM]

Just now, H0R53 said:

Meaning motherboard support?

If you'd like to think of it that way.

[H0R53]

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

If you'd like to think of it that way.

I'm afraid I don't quite understand. Does the Intel G31/G33/P35 chipset support ECC?

 

Oops, just found a user manual:

 

The Q35/Q33/G35/G33/G31/P35/P31 Express Chipset does NOT support ECC, does not support ECC un-buffered DIMMs, and it does not support any memory configuration that mixes non-ECC with ECC un-buffered DIMMs. See Section 3.1 for un-buffered DIMM support details.

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

I'm afraid I don't quite understand. Does the Intel G31/G33/P35 chipset support ECC?

G31, no.

G33, no.

P35, no.

[kirashi]

13 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

I don't think there's any benefit of ECC over my current RAM but I am running a Xeon processor in a board that has a modified BIOS. Can I use ECC RAM or does it require motherboard support as well?

There is a benefit if you plan to use your system as a Server running something like UnRAID or ZFS since both of those things can be memory intensive. However, if you just threw a Xeon CPU into a regular consumer/prosumer grade motherboard that has been modified to accept such a CPU, then you're right - there's not a ton of benefit.

 

Both your motherboard chipset AND the CPU need to support ECC RAM or the system will fail on POST (usually), however, I do know there are hybrid motherboards out there that actually support both regular and ECC RAM, but they're usually a bit more expensive small business-class or special use case motherboards.

[H0R53]

1 minute ago, kirashi said:

motherboards out there that actually support both regular and ECC RAM, but they're usually a bit more expensive

The average price of my motherboard is still $175 even though it was released in 2008. I don't know (can't find) if anybody's tested it with ECC but it's cheap so I might try it.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, H0R53 said:

The average price of my motherboard is still $175 even though it was released in 2008. I don't know (can't find) if anybody's tested it with ECC but it's cheap so I might try it.

Almost all modern chipsets can take ECC unbuffered or buffered (RAM slot pin-outs determine which) RAM and will simply turn the ECC functional chip off.

[H0R53]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

Almost all modern chipsets

Do you think mine is modern enough?

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, H0R53 said:

Do you think mine is modern enough?

I can't say for sure. I've used ECC in non-ECC boards LGA775 boards and G41 could take the ECC without issue, but your board may differ.

[H0R53]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

LGA775 boards and G41 could take the ECC without issue

Thanks. I'll give it a shot and if it doesn't work I'll just send it back and get a refund.

[kirashi]

15 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Almost all modern chipsets can take ECC unbuffered or buffered (RAM slot pin-outs determine which) RAM and will simply turn the ECC functional chip off.

Wait, are you serious? So what you're saying is instead of spending chunks of cash on additional DDR3 memory for a 4 slot system with 2x 8GB sticks, I could hit up eBay and buy some decommissioned server grade ECC RAM instead? heads off to eBay to amass a RAM upgrade for cheap.

 

No, but seriously, is there a way to tell without actually having ECC RAM lying around? My motherboard wasn't super expensive, but like @H0R53's it sold for around $150-$200 brand new, and is a chipset that supports overclocking and m.2 slots, so it's not like it's a low-end board... According the the specs page, they state "Supports non-ECC, un-buffered memory" but nowhere does it explicitly state that ECC RAM won't work...

https://ca.msi.com/Motherboard/Z97M-GAMING.html#hero-specification

[H0R53]

ECC RAM is a LOT cheaper, which is why I asked. I can get 8GB ECC (4x2) for $15 and 2x2GB of non ECC for $25...like what

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Wait, are you serious? So what you're saying is instead of spending chunks of cash on additional DDR3 memory for a 4 slot system with 2x 8GB sticks, I could hit up eBay and buy some decommissioned server grade ECC RAM instead? heads off to eBay to amass a RAM upgrade for cheap.

As long as your board uses unbuffered RAM and you buy unbuffered ECC RAM, you should be fine. Be sure to check the description since many "server" sticks are not explicitly stated as unbuffered or buffered (registered). 

[ARikozuM]

12 minutes ago, kirashi said:

According the the specs page, they state "Supports non-ECC, un-buffered memory" but nowhere does it explicitly state that ECC RAM won't work...

https://ca.msi.com/Motherboard/Z97M-GAMING.html#hero-specification

Your chipset doesn't have the ability to use ECC. Its use is limited by Intel, otherwise what would be the point of server chipsets. [This is the reason for one of my posts saying that you CAN use ECC RAM, but without the ECC function].

 

The only downsides (and the first is a big one if the machine is for gaming) are that ECC RAM is usually the base of the architecture's RAM speed or lower, i.e. 1333MHz or 1600MHz for DDR3 and 2133MHz for DDR4, and you lose ECC usage. 

[kirashi]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

As long as your board uses unbuffered RAM and you buy unbuffered ECC RAM, you should be fine. Be sure to check the description since many "server" sticks are not explicitly stated as unbuffered or buffered (registered). 

Thanks stranger! After a wee bit of Googling, it appears this is to be true, so long as your motherboard and CPU aren't picky:

(normally I don't trust people over on Tom's Hardware, but there's enough detail here to warrant a valid explanation.)

Quote

Ok, having had to deal with the fun of ECC and nonECC motherboards for a while now, generally I tend to find:

1. ECC is dependent on the memory controller in the CPU for any of the AM2/3 motherboards.
2. If the motherboard specifies Registered ECC DIMMs (RDIMMS), those are the only ones that will work and Registered ECC modules are required along with a CPU to support them (Opteron series).
3. If the motherboard specifies Unbuffered ECC DIMMs (UDIMMS), then you can use either ECC, or non-ECC UDIMMs, and if CPU supports ECC (Opteron series) then it will use ECC -if- the motherboard has ECC UDIMMs in it. If it doesn't have ECC UDIMMs, then it will ignore ECC and fall back to non-ECC operation.
4. The motherboard you have spec'd above lists support for Athlon/Phenom/Sempron support, all of which are consumer grade CPUs and which do NOT have ECC capable memory controllers. Only the Opteron series CPUs (server class) have ECC memory controllers.

For reference, I am currently running a Gigabyte DDR2 (ga-ma770-ud3) motherboard which has the same support - AM2+, DDR2 ECC UDIMMs, with an Opteron 1300 series CPU and non-ECC RAM with no problems. I would personally prefer to run ECC UDIMMs, but looking at the pricing even on eBay, they're expensive for used RAM ($80 for 4x2GB).

It looks like my system won't support it, but some systems will indeed boot with unbuffered ECC RAM - they simply act as if ECC isn't running, and carry on normally with their day at whatever the base speed of the RAM is supposed to operate at. Poop. And here I got all excited for a second.

[ARikozuM]

5 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Thanks stranger! After a wee bit of Googling, it appears this is to be true, so long as your motherboard and CPU aren't picky:

(normally I don't trust people over on Tom's Hardware, but there's enough detail here to warrant a valid explanation.)

It looks like my system won't support it, but some systems will indeed boot with unbuffered ECC RAM - they simply act as if ECC isn't running, and carry on normally with their day at whatever the base speed of the RAM is supposed to operate at. Poop. And here I got all excited for a second.

I have no idea if the same is true for AMD since the architectures and chipsets are different. For Intel, the above is what is most correct. 

[H0R53]

14 minutes ago, kirashi said:

Thanks stranger! After a wee bit of Googling, it appears this is to be true, so long as your motherboard and CPU aren't picky:

(normally I don't trust people over on Tom's Hardware, but there's enough detail here to warrant a valid explanation.)

It looks like my system won't support it, but some systems will indeed boot with unbuffered ECC RAM - they simply act as if ECC isn't running, and carry on normally with their day at whatever the base speed of the RAM is supposed to operate at. Poop. And here I got all excited for a second.

I do suppose my system won't have any trouble with unbuffered memory. My motherboard has been through a lot and is very tough (previous owner used the comp chassis as an ashtray), I accidentally fried a soldering trail fan lead and had to solder it back on, I've ESD'd the crap out of it before and even ran my Xeon without the mod sticker somehow. It's bound to fail but it's running like a champ.

[asand1]

I don't see where you've posted your motherboard. My Sabertooth x58 supports unregistered ECC when using a Xeon, but I can say with 100% certainty that it will not support registered ECC RAM.

[Prysin]

2 hours ago, H0R53 said:

I don't think there's any benefit of ECC over my current RAM but I am running a Xeon processor in a board that has a modified BIOS. Can I use ECC RAM or does it require motherboard support as well?

short answer: yes

 

Long answer: yes, but only for registrered buffered.

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, Prysin said:

short answer: yes

 

Long answer: yes, but only for registrered buffered.

Registered and buffered is redundant...

[H0R53]

2 hours ago, asand1 said:

don't see where you've posted your motherboard.

All over Tom's Hardware. I've made a few posts here too. here's the part if you're interested. It's a very old Dell DDR2 Socket 775 motherboard with a hacked BIOS and a custom heatsink (was all aluminum +70mm fan, now aluminum and copper slug +80mm fan, much better)

[asand1]

21 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

All over Tom's Hardware. I've made a few posts here too. here's the part if you're interested. It's a very old Dell DDR2 Socket 775 motherboard with a hacked BIOS and a custom heatsink (was all aluminum +70mm fan, now aluminum and copper slug +80mm fan, much better)

Yeah on my phone. Not going to jump through hoops and look at toms just to find out what mobo you have.

 

If your going to ask for help, post specs in the same thread. 

[H0R53]

30 minutes ago, asand1 said:

Yeah on my phone. Not going to jump through hoops and look at toms just to find out what mobo you have.

 

If your going to ask for help, post specs in the same thread. 

I mean I was asking more of a general question at first and then it got more personal. But if you must know it's a Dell 0N826N DDR2-800 LGA 775 G35 chipset.