Ryzen may well make 2 Gamers 1 CPU economically viable

[Dargenfire]

(TL;DR at bottom)

 

So, all the hype around Ryzen is starting to cool off. As I staved off boredom today, looking back through older Linustechtips videos, I came across the 7 Gamers 1 CPU video and decided to watch the original instead, going all the way back to the 2 Gamers 1 CPU video.

 

Watching this video reminded me of the time when this video had just come out and, being a teenager without a six-figure income, I had tried to find out if it was cheaper to make this rig instead of two identical performance-matched rigs. In short, the answer was no, with the CPU being the main cost restriction. The price delta going from a consumer 4 core up to an 8 core was too much on Intel's side, and AMD's FX 8xxx or 9xxx offerings simply wouldn't run that well on 4 cores per rig.

 

This stumbling block made me a little bit sad, as the idea of sharing certain components between two rigs to save money seemed like it had a lot of potential.

 

But here comes Ryzen. While we should be taking the pricing rumours with a grain of salt, all I can do is wait and hope that AMD will make the right move and force Intel into a pricing war.

 

So without further ado…

 

2 GAMERS 1 CPU INTEL:

 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/x42sVY

Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/x42sVY/by_merchant/

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-6900K 3.2GHz 8-Core Processor  ($999.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Nepton 240M 76.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($105.99 @ NCIX US) 

Motherboard: Asus X99-E ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($208.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: Kingston FURY 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($162.98 @ PCM) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($164.99 @ Jet) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($164.99 @ Jet) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($68.15 @ NCIX US) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($68.15 @ NCIX US) 

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($399.99 @ B&H) 

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($399.99 @ B&H) 

Case: Cooler Master MasterCase Pro 5 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($124.99 @ B&H) 

Power Supply: EVGA 850W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($109.88 @ OutletPC) 

Other: 2 x Windows 10 Home License ($200.00)

Other: UnRAID Plus License ($89.00)

Total: $3268.08

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-12-20 19:49 EST-0500

 

INDIVIDUAL RIG INTEL:

 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dftDQV

Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dftDQV/by_merchant/

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($324.99 @ Newegg) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Nepton 240M 76.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($105.99 @ NCIX US) 

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($129.89 @ OutletPC) 

Memory: Kingston FURY 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($103.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($164.99 @ Jet) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($68.15 @ NCIX US) 

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card  ($399.99 @ B&H) 

Case: Cooler Master MasterCase Pro 5 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($124.99 @ B&H) 

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($74.88 @ OutletPC) 

Other: Windows 10 Home License ($100.00)

Total: $1597.86

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-12-20 19:53 EST-0500

 

I chose an i7 6900K on Intel's side because AMD has been keen to compare their 8/16 top model Ryzen CPU with it, and their benchmarks show they are fairly equal in terms of performance.

 

As You can see from the parts list, by only changing the necessary components between a 2 PC rig and a normal rig, the 2 PC rig is just over double the price of the single rig. This defeats the cost benefit of the double rig.

 

But what if we went with a Ryzen CPU for both rigs? This will involve a bit of guessing, as there is no set price on Ryzen CPUs or on any AM4 motherboards as of yet. For the CPUs, we’ll go with the rumoured USD $500 for the 8 core and USD $350 for the 4 core. For the AMD motherboard, we’ll go with a worst case scenario pricing-wise, and price it at USD $200 - Roughly the same as the X99 motherboard (enthusiast platform) used in the Intel double rig.

 

2 GAMERS 1 CPU AMD:

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gN7NYr

Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gN7NYr/by_merchant/

 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Nepton 240M 76.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($105.99 @ NCIX US) 

Memory: Kingston FURY 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($162.98 @ PCM) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($164.99 @ Jet) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($164.99 @ Jet) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($68.15 @ NCIX US) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($68.15 @ NCIX US) 

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($399.99 @ B&H) 

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($399.99 @ B&H) 

Case: Cooler Master MasterCase Pro 5 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($124.99 @ B&H) 

Power Supply: EVGA 850W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($109.88 @ OutletPC) 

Other: 2 x Windows 10 Home License ($200.00)

Other: UnRAID Plus License ($89.00)

Other: AMD Ryzen 8 Core CPU ($499.00)

Other: Nondescript AM4  ATX Motherboard ($199.00)

Total: $2757.10

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-12-20 20:16 EST-0500

 

INDIVIDUAL RIG AMD:

 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Nepton 240M 76.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($105.99 @ NCIX US) 

Memory: Kingston FURY 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($103.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($164.99 @ Jet) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($68.15 @ NCIX US) 

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card  ($399.99 @ B&H) 

Case: Cooler Master MasterCase Pro 5 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($124.99 @ B&H) 

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($74.88 @ OutletPC) 

Other: Nondescript AM4  ATX Motherboard ($199.00)

Other: AMD Ryzen 4 Core CPU ($349.00)

Other: Windows 10 Home License ($100.00)

Total: $1690.98

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-12-20 20:24 EST-0500

 

 

On AMDs side things get more interesting. There actually is a substantial saving going from an individual rig to a double rig. This is due to AMDs (theoretically priced) offerings. These rumoured prices follow the business model of getting more bang for your buck as you buy higher tier models (while the jump from a 6700K to a 6900K is over double the price). This, combined with the fact that the AM4 platforms unifying these different models means there will be no delta in motherboard pricing. This results in the possibility of 2 Gamers 1 CPU now being a viable money saving option, even with the added cost of an unRAID Plus License.

 

Of course, this is all hypothetical. This could well go down the drain if AMD prices Ryzen similar to Intel's current offering. But hey! One can hope!

 

What are your thoughts on this?

(Please let me know if I've made a typo or mistake somewhere)

 

TL:DR

(Going from rumoured pricing of USD$500 and $350 for Ryzen's 8-core and 4-core CPUs respectively)

A Ryzen based 2 Gamers 1 CPU machine offers a substantial per-rig discount over a Ryzen based normal rig, while Intel's current offerings mean that an Intel based 2 Gamers 1 CPU machine is less economically viable per-rig over an Intel based normal rig. Ryzen may well make 2 Gamers 1 CPU a lucrative possibility.

 

EDIT - HTML bits didn't work. Replaced with normal text.

[tarfeef101]

pls fix your pcpartpicker links... they're not links but unformatted HTML crap

[Dargenfire]

11 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

pls fix your pcpartpicker links... they're not links but unformatted HTML crap

Fixed. Sorry. First time trying to use the HTML thing.

[themctipers]

That would be nice 

 

especially for LAN party's when someone doesn't have a computer (100% of my bad lans)

[ARikozuM]

You don't need an 8-core for 2 gamers, 1 PC. I've got a Xeon 1231 for my Steam server hosting 1-3 users. You can actually share every core through the VM's without needing to allocate them.

[Energycore]

10 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

You don't need an 8-core for 2 gamers, 1 PC. I've got a Xeon 1231 for my Steam server hosting 1-3 users. You can actually share every core through the VM's without needing to allocate them.

Does it perform well? Considering it's less than 1 i3 per VM, roughly speaking.

[DocSwag]

That would be great, but I personally doubt that we'd get $500 for the 8 core and $350 for the 4 core. I'd say AMD would price the 8 core more around 700-800 but even if they did price it at 500 the 4 core would probably be more like 250-300.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

I know it's pure speculation for fun, so no point in getting to picky. But just to follow up your premise, do you think it's likely for AMD to undercut the 6900 by 50%, while just matching the 6700K, no undercut? Considering they aim at matching the 6900, while staying behind Skylake in IPC terms.

[Dargenfire]

24 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

You don't need an 8-core for 2 gamers, 1 PC. I've got a Xeon 1231 for my Steam server hosting 1-3 users. You can actually share every core through the VM's without needing to allocate them.

I know you don't NEED 4 cores per gamer, but that's not the point of this post.

 

The point is to look at the price delta between normal rigs, and their appropriate double rig counterpart. I decided to go with 4 cores per rig because that's pretty standard nowadays, and a few games are starting to refuse to run on anything less than 4 cores.

[Dargenfire]

12 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I know it's pure speculation for fun, so no point in getting to picky. But just to follow up your premise, do you think it's likely for AMD to undercut the 6900 by 50%, while just matching the 6700K, no undercut? Considering they aim at matching the 6900, while staying behind Skylake in IPC terms.

That is a good point. I personally believe that if AMD is going to price the 8-core Ryzen at $500, then they will also price the 4-core cheaper than the 6700K. However, these price points are based off of rumours, and they're probably closer than my guess could ever get to the real deal.

 

AMD could be only offering a massive discount over Intel on it's top tier offering for the sake of being able to draw people into the AM4 platform. For all we know, that 3.4Ghz+ on the 8-core at an impressive 95 TDP could indicate that their 4-core will be able outperform the 6700K purely through clock speed. But that's just my speculation.

[ARikozuM]

18 minutes ago, Energycore said:

Does it perform well? Considering it's less than 1 i3 per VM, roughly speaking.

My wife and I can play Doom 2016, Rocket League and the Division off the machine concurrently.

[Montana1176]

I multiplied the single build by two because I find that more equivalent and fair since the 2 gamers 1 cpu build is essentially giving you 2 separate computers. Just my 2 cents though.

 

(I made the changes to this quote bold.)

3 hours ago, Dargenfire said:

2 GAMERS 1 CPU INTEL:

 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/x42sVY

Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/x42sVY/by_merchant/

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-6900K 3.2GHz 8-Core Processor  ($999.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Nepton 240M 76.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($105.99 @ NCIX US) 

Motherboard: Asus X99-E ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($208.99 @ SuperBiiz) 

Memory: Kingston FURY 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($162.98 @ PCM) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($164.99 @ Jet) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($164.99 @ Jet) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($68.15 @ NCIX US) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($68.15 @ NCIX US) 

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($399.99 @ B&H) 

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card (2-Way SLI)  ($399.99 @ B&H) 

Case: Cooler Master MasterCase Pro 5 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($124.99 @ B&H) 

Power Supply: EVGA 850W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($109.88 @ OutletPC) 

Other: 2 x Windows 10 Home License ($200.00)

Other: UnRAID Plus License ($89.00)

Total: $3268.08

Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-12-20 19:49 EST-0500

 

INDIVIDUAL RIG INTEL: x2

 

PCPartPicker part list: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dftDQV

Price breakdown by merchant: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dftDQV/by_merchant/

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($324.99 @ Newegg) 

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Nepton 240M 76.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler  ($105.99 @ NCIX US) 

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($129.89 @ OutletPC) 

Memory: Kingston FURY 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($103.99 @ Newegg) 

Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($164.99 @ Jet) 

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($68.15 @ NCIX US) 

Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card  ($399.99 @ B&H) 

Case: Cooler Master MasterCase Pro 5 ATX Mid Tower Case  ($124.99 @ B&H) 

Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($74.88 @ OutletPC) 

Other: Windows 10 Home License ($100.00)

Total: $3199.72

 

[Dargenfire]

51 minutes ago, Montana1176 said:

I multiplied the single build by two because I find that more equivalent and fair since the 2 gamers 1 cpu build is essentially giving you 2 separate computers. Just my 2 cents though.

 

(I made the changes to this quote bold.)

 

I realise that I didn't put the doubled figures in my post, but I talk about the 2 Gamers 1 CPU computer being double the price of the normal rig and therefore, not worth doing (since there is no money saved, its easier to save yourself the hassle of setting up UnRAID and just build two seperate machines if the cost is the same)

[spamy666]

12 hours ago, Dargenfire said:

That is a good point. I personally believe that if AMD is going to price the 8-core Ryzen at $500, then they will also price the 4-core cheaper than the 6700K. However, these price points are based off of rumours, and they're probably closer than my guess could ever get to the real deal.

 

AMD could be only offering a massive discount over Intel on it's top tier offering for the sake of being able to draw people into the AM4 platform. For all we know, that 3.4Ghz+ on the 8-core at an impressive 95 TDP could indicate that their 4-core will be able outperform the 6700K purely through clock speed. But that's just my speculation.

I really hope that will be the price! 

[michaelocarroll007]

13 hours ago, Dargenfire said:

(TL;DR at bottom)

 

So, all the hype around Ryzen is starting to cool off. As I staved off boredom today, looking back through older Linustechtips videos, I came across the 7 Gamers 1 CPU video and decided to watch the original instead, going all the way back to the 2 Gamers 1 CPU video.

 

Watching this video reminded me of the time when this video had just come out and, being a teenager without a six-figure income, I had tried to find out if it was cheaper to make this rig instead of two identical performance-matched rigs. In short, the answer was no, with the CPU being the main cost restriction. The price delta going from a consumer 4 core up to an 8 core was too much on Intel's side, and AMD's FX 8xxx or 9xxx offerings simply wouldn't run that well on 4 cores per rig.

 

This stumbling block made me a little bit sad, as the idea of sharing certain components between two rigs to save money seemed like it had a lot of potential.

 

 

EDIT - HTML bits didn't work. Replaced with normal text.

Talks about not having money Shows builds that are almost 3 grand. Makes sense 

[Mira Yurizaki]

Even if the CPU is there, the problem is you still need two GPUs and a pricey hypervisor with two copies of Windows.

 

At least on the bright side, a single OEM version would technically work since you're still on one motherboard :3

 

Unless Microsoft accounted for that.

[XenosTech]

2 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Even if the CPU is there, the problem is you still need two GPUs and a pricey hypervisor with two copies of Windows.

 

At least on the bright side, a single OEM version would technically work since you're still on one motherboard :3

 

Unless Microsoft accounted for that.

I'm gonna try this at work and see lol

[Dargenfire]

11 hours ago, michaelocarroll007 said:

Talks about not having money Shows builds that are almost 3 grand. Makes sense 

Again, that's not the point. You could do lesser hardware, I was just establishing that there was indeed a substantial difference in price.

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, Dargenfire said:

Again, that's not the point. You could do lesser hardware, I was just establishing that there was indeed a substantial difference in price.

The issue is that your thesis is "viability of a dual-VM vs. single builds". You're not giving two PC's for two users while the VM server is capable of giving 2 gamers respectable performance.

[ARikozuM]

8 hours ago, XenosTech said:

I'm gonna try this at work and see lol

You can buy a Volume key for the VM's. Though you don't need the license if a user isn't remotely accessing the server.

[Dargenfire]

1 hour ago, ARikozuM said:

The issue is that your thesis is "viability of a dual-VM vs. single builds". You're not giving two PC's for two users while the VM server is capable of giving 2 gamers respectable performance.

Sorry I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. My thesis is about the economic viability. It has been proven several times - even on Linustechtips - that there is hardly any performance degradation with the VMs because UnRAID has PCI-E Passthrough and CPU virtualisation.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, Dargenfire said:

Sorry I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. My thesis is about the economic viability. It has been proven several times - even on Linustechtips - that there is hardly any performance degradation with the VMs because UnRAID has PCI-E Passthrough and CPU virtualisation.

That's what I'm saying. You're comparing one VM PC for two people with one PC that serves only one individual. The price for both sets would be the same.

[Dargenfire]

13 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

That's what I'm saying. You're comparing one VM PC for two people with one PC that serves only one individual. The price for both sets would be the same.

No. The price for both sets would not be the same. Did you look at the prices I actually have in my first post? Sure it would cost the same for all the peripherals, but the point of a build like this is that it allows us to share one CPU, one motherboard, one PSU and one case between two rigs. Yes the CPU and PSU might have to be a bit more expensive, but it's still cheaper than buying two lesser ones of each (as I point out may be possible with Ryzen).

[Sniperfox47]

To be fair this is all assuming two things.

1) AMD's benchmarks are even close to accurate, which hasn't always been true in the past. *cough*bulldozer*cough*

 

2) Their Ryzen chips are priced really aggressivly as rumors state, and the AM4 platform has all the IO you need to do this.

[Dargenfire]

1 minute ago, Sniperfox47 said:

To be fair this is all assuming two things.

1) AMD's benchmarks are even close to accurate, which hasn't always been true in the past. *cough*bulldozer*cough*

 

2) Their Ryzen chips are priced really aggressivly as rumors state, and the AM4 platform has all the IO you need to do this.

Oh I realise this. I was hesitant to even dream of something like this until I saw Ryzen's launch event. I doubt AMD would have let those benchmarks be inaccurate. Can you imagine the PR hit they would suffer if Ryzen launched with less performance than they demonstrated.

 

The pricing is a bit more of a stretch (which is why I put may in the title) and this post is a bit of speculation, but I can dream, dammit! I also doubt IO would be restrictive enough on the AM4 platform so as to not allow this type of build to happen, but who knows?