Linus called adblock users scummy

[Art Vandelay]

But should people be making a living off of this ("this" being ads)? I think not.

My point (as seen a few pages back) is that YouTube should be seen as a hobby, not a business.

Simply because it's inherently free. You don't pay to watch videos nor to upload them. Google just decided to share some of its earnings with Youtubers to keep the platform growing and attract even more interest from companies that want to advertise.

If your business/main product is content creation/videos (I am looking at you Linus!) I would expect you to actually sell them and not to just rely on ad revenue.

If your business is retail and you use YouTube as a way to make your store and its products known, you don't have a problem in the first place.

 

In conclusion: prevent ads => no revenue => paid content. Which I think is a better option.

Ads are, in my opinion, one of the worst things that happened to the world anyway.

Companies waste all their money in (sometimes excruciatingly bad) ads instead of focusing on the product and content creators, whose work is sometimes completely pointless, benefit from this because people without adblock consume their content as entertainment because it's freely available.

And then we end up with surgeons making 300,000$ and let's players making 4M$.

On the other hand, without ads, one could (maybe) theorize that surgeons would continue making 300,000$, LMG would still have paying subscribers that value his work and want to stay informed about the latest tech news and let's players would have an actual job because ain't nobody got money to pay to watch someone playing games and scream at the screen (they would much rather pay to play the actual game, perhaps, or maybe they see value in that and will also subscribe, which is fine). And companies would be "stuck" with using that money to reinvest on their products (oh noes!) or give to charity.

 

I know that it is not black and white like I made it sound. The ad industry is so pervasive that it would have many implications that I am not contemplating. At this point it feels more like an utopia.

And ads or no ads, there would still be a lot of disparity in income levels between essential and not-so-essential jobs.

Essentially, like Professor Farnsworth once said (and the reason for my avatar): "I don't want to live on this planet anymore".

TotalBiscuit makes a living, largely off of youtube ads. Plenty of people are using the ads alone.

This line of argument makes no sense. It's inherently free in that it requires no money from the viewer, but that doesn't make it not a business. Take radio or freely broadcasted TV for example. Those are free and a business.

 

Your argument relies on paid content being a universally superior delivery model for all youtube content that is currently paid.

This would mean you would no longer have reviews of anything, since people use reviews to determing how to spend their money, and people don't spend their money to determine how to spend their money.

It's not like these people are going to produce reviews for free at the current rate and quality you see. Before it was possible to make money, you had hobbyists doing one or two videos a month at most; that doesn't cut it for reviews.

channels like LMG would just die out as a paid content model.

[mr moose]

I just wanted to point out that Jhen is a gold  contributor ... no ads will ever equal that kind of contribution. I think you should slow down on accusing him of wanting to watch content while not funding it ... It takes a shit load of ads to equal 25$ when most ads on twich are like giving 20$ (or less) to the creator for 1000 ads viewed. He would make more money out of a sub button or something similar (2.50$ out of 5$ per month).

 

I apologize if you wrote something else different after page 5 but so far its only whining and stuff that I read so Im gonna leave this thread with this post in hope it gets people thinking how much ads are worth.

 

Edit : wow 27 pages ... Ill try to read it all but I doubt ill be able to.

 

He was not a contributor at all when he started this thread, nor was he when I made that post,  His first thread and 8 odd posts on these forums was to bitch about linus calling adblock users scummy, and to whinge about how he shouldn't have to see ads but still get the content.  It was only after first 6 pages or so that he realised what I and others were saying,  If you'll note I haven't said anything in this thread for the last 20 pages or so. 

 

And for the record, ads on youtube are worth significantly more than ads on this forum.  But either way I don't (and never have) used adblock, I simply stay away from sites with horrid ads. youtube is not a problem. The people complaining are making mountains out of mole hills. Someone even tried to argue that the 15 sec pre roll on a 1.5hour video youtube would bust his data cap and cost him too much money. :rolleyes:

[Speedstack79]

how dafuq is this thread still alive

 

out of all the controversial topics that could reach over 25 pages, this is one of the last topics in my list that I thought could reach over 25 pages of debate

[Clydey]

Think of it this way, If there were no advertisements we would have to pay a subscription fee in order to use services such as YouTube so that they can pay to run servers, employees etc. I imagine most of you would never pay money to watch videos on YouTube, correct? I would much rather sit through an ad which I can skip in 5 seconds (which is FREE) than pay a monthly subscription. So be grateful and don't use adblock or at least turn it off when watching your favourite YouTube channels such as Linus Tech Tips!

[Trik'Stari]

I'm an Atheist.

 

Just saw an ad on the forums (side panel ad)

 

.......for a Muslim dating site.

 

 

.......I don't feel like I need to say more

[ToxicFire]

I'm an Atheist.

 

Just saw an ad on the forums (side panel ad)

 

.......for a Muslim dating site.

 

 

.......I don't feel like I need to say more

Yuh thats my main gripe with the ad's on the forums, there not targeted well enough. Its tech orientated forum the ad's should be tech based they'd probably garner more clicks

[Trik'Stari]

Yuh thats my main gripe with the ad's on the forums, there not targeted well enough. Its tech orientated forum the ad's should be tech based they'd probably garner more clicks

 

 

People actually click ads?

 

*literally dies of laughter/from being on the forums for almost 10 hours straight now*

[ToxicFire]

Think of it this way, If there were no advertisements we would have to pay a subscription fee in order to use services such as YouTube so that they can pay to run servers, employees etc. I imagine most of you would never pay money to watch videos on YouTube, correct? I would much rather sit through an ad which I can skip in 5 seconds (which is FREE) than pay a monthly subscription. So be grateful and don't use adblock or at least turn it off when watching your favourite YouTube channels such as Linus Tech Tips!

Possibly theres another side to this most likely the quality of the content on youtube would go up as people would only be willing to contribute for video's that provide decent content if all the flotsam and jetsam went from youtube I think you'd probably find alot more people would be willing to pay a subscription model. Which is part of the argument, ad's support a vast sea of dren, which makes it harder for the good content producers to actually make money full stop as theres a few hundred people doing a review on this or an unboxing of that splitting where the cash is going, if that dren is gone then it gets redirected towards those that produce better content.

[topsu]

I'm an Atheist.

 

Just saw an ad on the forums (side panel ad)

 

.......for a Muslim dating site.

 

 

.......I don't feel like I need to say more

 

 

Isn't it google's adsense that is giving the ads?

 

And the ads are based on your google searches.

[Trik'Stari]

Isn't it google's adsense that is giving the ads?

 

And the ads are based on your google searches.

Apparently not because I've never looked for a muslim dating service lol

 

Why would I? I'm an atheist

[ToxicFire]

Isn't it google's adsense that is giving the ads?

 

And the ads are based on your google searches.

googles ad sense is somewhat over the place in my experience as I stated earlier, i've been viewing coverage of MH17 crisis and since then I've been getting russian/thai dating website ad's on google adsense, probably thats also based around the fact this is a tech site (slight inference techy people have issues getting hitched)

[mr moose]

Apparently not because I've never looked for a muslim dating service lol

 

Why would I? I'm an atheist

 

Google adsense can't determine intention from a sentence, but it can get key words, like "religion" "muslim" etc.  Then it finds ads with those key words in it.  So while you never look up dating sites you do talk about religion on the forums.

 

I got ads for russian wives after the I participated in a thread regarding Russia and snowden etc.  

 

Besides, just ignore them, or click on the ads that have valid content to you (assuming its safe), that will both tell adsense what ads you prefer, and help linus pay for the forum.

[Trik'Stari]

Google adsense can't determine intention from a sentence, but it can get key words, like "religion" "muslim" etc.  Then it finds ads with those key words in it.  So while you never look up dating sites you do talk about religion on the forums.

 

I got ads for russian wives after the I participated in a thread regarding Russia and snowden etc.  

 

Besides, just ignore them, or click on the ads that have valid content to you (assuming its safe), that will both tell adsense what ads you prefer, and help linus pay for the forum.

yeah.....I dont click on ads ever, If I see an ad I like I will manually find it through google.....I just dont trust anything flashing on the side of a website. (sorry if that cuts you out Linus, but I just don't trust the internet)

[jhen]

♥♥♥♥♥

[mr moose]

yeah.....I dont click on ads ever, If I see an ad I like I will manually find it through google.....I just dont trust anything flashing on the side of a website. (sorry if that cuts you out Linus, but I just don't trust the internet)

 

That's fair enough, sometimes you can inspect the link for the address it takes you to.

[ToxicFire]

That's fair enough, sometimes you can inspect the link for the address it takes you to.

And that won't show you if it goes through a redirection service

[Chaotixblade]

The fire in this thread has been quenched.

 

It's not even on topic now.

 

/Thread

[mr moose]

And that won't show you if it goes through a redirection service

correct, which is why I said sometimes.  I have inspected the links on the occasional ad and found they go back to a legit site. Of course I have also found out where they go from accidental clicks :unsure: :blink:  I didn't know people could be turned on by that sort of stuff.

[ToxicFire]

correct, which is why I said sometimes.  I have inspected the links on the occasional ad and found they go back to a legit site. Of course I have also found out where they go from accidental clicks :unsure: :blink:  I didn't know people could be turned on by that sort of stuff.

Oh so by inspect you actually mean resolve the URL rather than just hover over/right click

[mr moose]

Oh so by inspect you actually mean resolve the URL rather than just hover over/right click

no, hover over, if it doesn't show then right click select  "copy link location" and paste it in note to inspect,  some ad servers have the target URL in the link plain as day, others just have a string of data and the adservice url.

[MikeD]

TotalBiscuit makes a living, largely off of youtube ads. Plenty of people are using the ads alone.

This line of argument makes no sense. It's inherently free in that it requires no money from the viewer, but that doesn't make it not a business. Take radio or freely broadcasted TV for example. Those are free and a business.

 

Your argument relies on paid content being a universally superior delivery model for all youtube content that is currently paid.

This would mean you would no longer have reviews of anything, since people use reviews to determing how to spend their money, and people don't spend their money to determine how to spend their money.

It's not like these people are going to produce reviews for free at the current rate and quality you see. Before it was possible to make money, you had hobbyists doing one or two videos a month at most; that doesn't cut it for reviews.

channels like LMG would just die out as a paid content model.

I know there are lots of Youtubers using ads alone. Like I said, I don't think they should (more on that later).

I believe someone else on this thread already said this: TV and radio have it figured out because there's no way (I think) of knowing if people actually watched the ad or not so these companies always get payed (depending on the share during that time period I suppose). YouTube (and the rest of the internet) is risky because you know exactly how many saw and/or clicked it. Which doesn't legitimize, in my opinion, ads as a source of revenue (ads at all).

Forgive me (and point it out) if any of that information is wrong.

Besides, most media outlets rely on other sources of income: paid journals and magazines, contests (the "call this number for 60 cents and enter to win this prize" (which makes a lot more money than I initially thought)), tax payer money (for publicly owned broadcasters), paid events, etc. And most are organized in groups where income from several events/mediums/products will finance (most of) the business.

There is even a holding that belongs to the Portuguese Catholic Church responsible for 4 or 5 radio stations (2 of them among the most listened to (they mostly have pop music throughout the day!)). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the offerings to St. Jude (the patron saint of desperate cases and lost causes) ended up paying for Miley Cyrus's Wrecking Ball...

 

And if the way of the future is to make a living off of ads then why not consider my earlier contribution of placing ads all over classrooms,  hospitals, clinics, even surgery rooms? They sure get a lot of visitors. Suddenly there's no salary, only ad revenue.

"This lung transplant is brought to you by: XPTO tobacco. It's the best!", said the free defibrillator before charging. (Ohhhhh, I'd love to see this in a Futurama episode... I mean, they have already incorporated ads into Nixon's speeches...)

And maybe I could live on that mansion after all... Granted, the walls are covered in ads but, whatever. It gives an artsy feel.

Heck, why don't we all quit our jobs and become youtubers? Apparently there is an abundant interest in videos of cats, fake yelling sheep (or funny animal situations of any kind), game playing, among many other exciting things. Why wouldn't we all be able to go to our grandparent's, make a 6 second montage of a chicken scaring a rottweiler and get insta-famous? Lots of ad cash await...

The risk is exactly that people producing quality content are competing with "funny". And funny wins most of the time. At least on radio and TV they pay you X (fixed + depending on share/rating) for a Y minute spot.

 

We don't know, nor will we find out, whether or not people would be willing to pay for product reviews, will we now, since they are already freely available.

However, people do pay to learn. And they also pay to have things done for them, like 25$ to assemble the computer parts they just bought.

If you publish a video and say "Click here to watch for free, with ads or over there to pay <more or less amount of money I would have gotten from said ads> and watch ad free", maybe I'd rather pay. The same with Google services: "pay 5$ a month for these services (+ x$ for additional obscure ones) and never watch a Google ad again".

Perhaps it's just me with my "ads are evil" theory.

And yes, many content creators wouldn't make it. And that's related to the perceived value of their content. If ads ceased to exist and Google did in fact put a price on their services I bet most people would pay since they have settled in that ecosystem. Would most people pay to watch someone play games all day? Probably not. Would they pay to watch Linus teach them how to assemble a computer and to be able to chose better the next time they shop for parts? I would think so. Many people are monthly contributors here on the forum already, paying up to 25$ (?) a month to support LMG in exchange for no banners and a sub-forum. Lynda.com teaches you, for a price, how to do lots of things that you could learn elsewhere for free and they aren't out of business.

 

But ads exist, and they keep most of the content out there free. And that's why I am faced with the following choices:

1) Stop using any website/service that benefits from ads (yes, that basically includes all of Google and any webpage that has ads);

2) Stop using AdBlock everywhere, enjoy all the free services, be subjected to the will of advertisers and not complain when a video of a cat earns it's owner more than a teacher/surgeon/whatever earns in a year;

3) Keep using AdBlock and enjoying all the free services as a way of protesting the ad-centric business model, acknowledging, though, the hypocrisy in those actions (I don't really care for this one);

4) Pay for the services I want to use without ads. Oh wait... I don't have an option...

4) Not living on this planet anymore!

 

Besides, so far this whole argument has been about how LMG makes most of its money from ads and sponsors and such. And even in a world without ads companies still need images, videos, reviews and that sort of stuff for their products, even if it's to show on their stores or web pages.

Furthermore, when visiting LMG's "what we do" page, one can see that they are addressing companies that want to "deliver a message" about their products.

 

 

We work closely with you to create and deliver the messaging that you want. Whether it's for an instructional video, a product demonstration, or brand awareness, you'll always be a part of the creative process.

We have seen some of those products, mainly for their client Func.

My question at this point is: if ad revenue is so important that it's worth using the word scummy to classify AdBlock users (I wasn't even offended, the "ummy" at the end made it sound not so bad!) what happened to LMG's main business?

Perhaps they could support The WAN Show and Techquickie and other videos without all the ads if their core business was more mature...?

 

P.S.: Apologies for any lack of sense. It's rather late...! Feel free to call me out on any such thing.

P.P.S.: Some people are trying to get this thread closed ("/thread"). Why? Why wouldn't you want healthy discussion to proceed? I am interested in the topic and I'm not talking to myself (much, yet!)... I just don't get it...

[MegaDave91]

I don't use adblock Linus. If watchers and users are true fans, then they will watch a 5 second ad or deal with a few ads on the side of a webpage because they KNOW it's benefiting you and that it's a key for LMG's longevity.

 

Users that use adblock (for LTT videos/ forum) are selfish. Plain and simple. They watch the videos and use the fourm, yet they can't even bare something so simple as a few ads that are helping you create the content. Sad.

[massiveturkey]

I personally find the forum ads amusing, mainly because they don't impose like YouTube videos, so I can enjoy their amusing aspects. I mean, my Google search history is terrible, how could I not enjoy Google's dirty mind

[Guest]

Yuh thats my main gripe with the ad's on the forums, there not targeted well enough. Its tech orientated forum the ad's should be tech based they'd probably garner more clicks

 

I actually think it's hilarious when I get completely random ads. Even on youtube (you would think that mighty google knows what to market towards their users, right?) I get ads for shampoo, fake plastic nails, sportscars, sports games and even french ads for whatever reason. There usually is an ad catalog that they're choosing from depending on your browsing habits, if they market you the wrong stuff then it's their own fault.

[Gunjob]

I see this thread is still going. Read the first few pages.

 

The word scummy was ill-chosen.

 

But the simple fact ramains that if everyone blocked the ads in my content Linus Tech Tips wouldn't exist. Period.

 

Those suggesting that I complain to Google... Do you think I can just call up Eric Schmidt and let him know I don't like the way they implement ads on YouTube? I laughed out loud.

 

YouTube isn't perfect but it's my best shot at running a viable business here so I can pay my employees and feed my family, so that's what I use. Those of you who opt to consume the content without supporting it, fine you're not "scummy". Come up with your own word for it

I've always had an exception set for YouTube and some other sites. But with all the malicious Ad's out there as well as instant video Ad's, browsing the net without Ad block is a much less enjoyable experience. Once YouTube has tipping I will probably remove the exception for that and just tip for videos. 

 

Also I don't think you're considering people who have no idea what they're doing on the net. I often get customers in work who have a machine loaded with virus's and Malware. A large percentage of which was gotten for clicking stupid Ad's and fake download buttons that would have otherwise been removed by Adblock. Not to mention the amount of Malware you can get from just having the Ad on screen through temp files and malicious cookies.  And every time a machine gets locked out due to this, these customers have to pay me anywhere from £25-£40's for cleaning the bugger up. And at the rate these people get this shit that's just not sustainable. Now when I send them off with Adblock they return much less frequently and are often happier customers since they don't need to fork out £25-40 every other month.