Our server room ACTUALLY Caught Fire Explained

[Bitter]

18 hours ago, LinusTech said:

It will lock.

But will it...kill?

[Kisai]

On 5/21/2020 at 2:29 PM, Nystemy said:

 

 

I would though also cut out a few fan holes, install some grills, and put in some fans that are collecting dust on a warehouse shelf.

After all, that would make the space a lot more ventilated. And also make an air path from the grill on the server room door, through the servers, and then the UPS and out the back.
 

Fan holes would help with air flow, but that server room likely needs an actual air conditioner. If it hits 40 degrees all the hardware is going to start complaining about it being too warm. The server room at my office actually has an air conditioner in it, and it's only a 12'x12' room.

 

[Nystemy]

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

Fan holes would help with air flow, but that server room likely needs an actual air conditioner. If it hits 40 degrees all the hardware is going to start complaining about it being too warm. The server room at my office actually has an air conditioner in it, and it's only a 12'x12' room.

 

Yes, walls are honestly fairly horrid at letting heat through them, and a layer of drywall in most rooms aren't really helping things along.

Concrete walls or steel ones are a bit better, but a bit costly.

Some form of air conditioning or ventilation is generally required if one plans on having more than a handful of computers in a space for extended periods of time. (Unless its like a raspberry pi cluster.) Even something as simple as two holes in the wall and some fans can make a huge improvement.
 

I myself have been poking at the idea of using a geothermal well for cooling. ("Geothermal" as in about 100 meter deep hole that has roughly the year round average temperature (typically 3-8 degrees C) deep inside of it, due to being surrounded by a gigantic thermal mass, it can provide typically around 3-5 kW of cooling (~10-15 kBTU), with just a water pump, a couple of radiators and some fans and typically last through the warmest months of the years, and then one can cool the well back down and use it as a source of heat through the winter. Though, geothermal wells can't be drilled in all regions of the world. In some places, it can be a disaster for all one's neighbors and oneself... (And the idea of storing heat in them is a bit "nah" since it tends to wander away as the ground water flows.. But a 3-8 C well is a lot warmer than outside winter temperatures in some regions of the world, and its a lot colder than what the summer has on offer.) So it works kinda fine, unless one lives above capped off limestone (or other water absorbing rocks), or on a volcano.

Though, one can also use a small data-center/server-room as a source of heat for the building in general. After all, even 30 C is warm for most indoor environments.

[Bitter]

8 hours ago, Nystemy said:

Yes, walls are honestly fairly horrid at letting heat through them, and a layer of drywall in most rooms aren't really helping things along.

Concrete walls or steel ones are a bit better, but a bit costly.

Some form of air conditioning or ventilation is generally required if one plans on having more than a handful of computers in a space for extended periods of time. (Unless its like a raspberry pi cluster.) Even something as simple as two holes in the wall and some fans can make a huge improvement.
 

I myself have been poking at the idea of using a geothermal well for cooling. ("Geothermal" as in about 100 meter deep hole that has roughly the year round average temperature (typically 3-8 degrees C) deep inside of it, due to being surrounded by a gigantic thermal mass, it can provide typically around 3-5 kW of cooling (~10-15 kBTU), with just a water pump, a couple of radiators and some fans and typically last through the warmest months of the years, and then one can cool the well back down and use it as a source of heat through the winter. Though, geothermal wells can't be drilled in all regions of the world. In some places, it can be a disaster for all one's neighbors and oneself... (And the idea of storing heat in them is a bit "nah" since it tends to wander away as the ground water flows.. But a 3-8 C well is a lot warmer than outside winter temperatures in some regions of the world, and its a lot colder than what the summer has on offer.) So it works kinda fine, unless one lives above capped off limestone (or other water absorbing rocks), or on a volcano.

Though, one can also use a small data-center/server-room as a source of heat for the building in general. After all, even 30 C is warm for most indoor environments.

Unless he owns the building or the property it's on he likely cannot sink a well for geo-thermal nor can he add things to the roof, usually. What he could do though is run an AC unit more like a residential one with the exchanger and compressor behind the building, that's likely allowed by the property owner. That however would be expensive. Probably just ducting the room air outside and having some baffled ducting (twists, turns, and some sound absorbing foam at key points) would allow hot air out, cooler building air in, and keep the noise down. So long as there's no 'line of sight'  and every surface with 'line of sight' to the noise source was damped with foam to absorb the noise the ducting could be very quiet without hurting airflow a lot. It's similar to an old car trick to quiet your exhaust without restricting flow, add bends and point it at the ground.

[Dutch_Master]

IMO a redesign is a good idea anyway. Given the rate LMG are filling Petabyte Storinators it's just a matter of time before there's simply no more space left in the rack! And as they hire not one but 5 units, there's space to expand, provided other things/rooms are organised more efficiently. Yes, it'll cost, but once done you'll quickly reap the benefits as the noise and heat from the servers is no longer right next to the Editors Den. Think about the increase in productivity when the editors are no longer subjected to prolonged levels of computer fan noise and heat and....

 

Oh, wait...

 

Joking aside, the one thing that will bear some serious cost is the separate network circuit from the unit the DC is relocated to and the Editors Den. Fibre is a must here. Using a multi-core cable LMG could equip all editors WS with optical connections (SFP+) straight into the new DC with almost 0 (zero) latency and no way of max-ing out a common 10Gb connection. Expensive, but way cool tech!

[Beerzerker]

3 hours ago, Bitter said:

Unless he owns the building or the property it's on he likely cannot sink a well for geo-thermal nor can he add things to the roof, usually. What he could do though is run an AC unit more like a residential one with the exchanger and compressor behind the building, that's likely allowed by the property owner. That however would be expensive. Probably just ducting the room air outside and having some baffled ducting (twists, turns, and some sound absorbing foam at key points) would allow hot air out, cooler building air in, and keep the noise down. So long as there's no 'line of sight'  and every surface with 'line of sight' to the noise source was damped with foam to absorb the noise the ducting could be very quiet without hurting airflow a lot. It's similar to an old car trick to quiet your exhaust without restricting flow, add bends and point it at the ground.

This is true, unless he owns the building he's gotta get whatever he does cleared with the owner and it also has to be to code for building and fire protection regs.

 

We had a unit in the server room that had a water cooled condensor, that eliminated the need for it to be outdoors but there was still a few things that had to be maintained because of it.
Such a setup would be like alot of buildings have with a chiller, they use a cooling tower for the chiller which is normally on the roof or just outside the building period. Takes periodic maintenance with some chem control to keep it going but it works well.

 

An enclosed heat exchanger type cooler for the condensor would be good too and eliminate the need for a tower, that (Tower) being open to the elements but a heat exchanger can be a fully enclosed setup with it's own radiator and fan(s) outside the building.

 

Out of all the setups that's possible a heat exchanger for an AC unit would probrably be the best and most trouble-free to go with aside from keeping a eye on coolant levels condition of the pump(s) and monitoring occasionally for corrosion - It happens and I've dealt with all of it at some point.

[Bitter]

4 hours ago, Beerzerker said:

This is true, unless he owns the building he's gotta get whatever he does cleared with the owner and it also has to be to code for building and fire protection regs.

 

We had a unit in the server room that had a water cooled condensor, that eliminated the need for it to be outdoors but there was still a few things that had to be maintained because of it.
Such a setup would be like alot of buildings have with a chiller, they use a cooling tower for the chiller which is normally on the roof or just outside the building period. Takes periodic maintenance with some chem control to keep it going but it works well.

 

An enclosed heat exchanger type cooler for the condensor would be good too and eliminate the need for a tower, that (Tower) being open to the elements but a heat exchanger can be a fully enclosed setup with it's own radiator and fan(s) outside the building.

 

Out of all the setups that's possible a heat exchanger for an AC unit would probrably be the best and most trouble-free to go with aside from keeping a eye on coolant levels condition of the pump(s) and monitoring occasionally for corrosion - It happens and I've dealt with all of it at some point.

I almost talked about a fluid filled heat exchanger but it probably gets hot enough there that it wouldn't cool well enough on some days, in the winter, spring, and fall it would likely work out most of the time. I think just venting the room into the building with forced air in the winter would be good enough and keep the heating bill down a little bit, in the summer the room could blocked from venting and an AC unit used to provide cooled dried air to the room. Using evaporative cooling could introduce a lot of humidity which comes with problems too.

[Beerzerker]

2 hours ago, Bitter said:

I almost talked about a fluid filled heat exchanger but it probably gets hot enough there that it wouldn't cool well enough on some days, in the winter, spring, and fall it would likely work out most of the time. I think just venting the room into the building with forced air in the winter would be good enough and keep the heating bill down a little bit, in the summer the room could blocked from venting and an AC unit used to provide cooled dried air to the room. Using evaporative cooling could introduce a lot of humidity which comes with problems too.

That would only be an issue if the evaporator/tower was inside the same area (Room), if it's outdoors you won't have that happening inside the room. The chiller we had for example has piping that ran out from the mechainical room where the chiller was to the tower outside on the roof. In the case of a server using such a tower you woudn't have issues with condensation forming on the pipes like we had with the chiller.

 

We also had three air compressors cooled the same way, a 50HP and a pair of 100HP units (Gardner-Denver) and they were all done the same way via a heat exchanger inside ran to a evaporative tower on the roof like the chiller was. 

I mean there are several ways you can do it, to figure out what would be the best way to apply it is the thing.

 

Using the heat from the room in winter is a good idea to help keep the heating costs down, make sense to use it rather than waste it.

[Bitter]

1 hour ago, Beerzerker said:

That would only be an issue if the evaporator/tower was inside the same area (Room), if it's outdoors you won't have that happening inside the room. The chiller we had for example has piping that ran out from the mechainical room where the chiller was to the tower outside on the roof. In the case of a server using such a tower you woudn't have issues with condensation forming on the pipes like we had with the chiller.

 

We also had three air compressors cooled the same way, a 50HP and a pair of 100HP units (Gardner-Denver) and they were all done the same way via a heat exchanger inside ran to a evaporative tower on the roof like the chiller was. 

I mean there are several ways you can do it, to figure out what would be the best way to apply it is the thing.

 

Using the heat from the room in winter is a good idea to help keep the heating costs down, make sense to use it rather than waste it.

OH that kind of evaporative cooling. I was thinking like a swamp cooler!

[LinusTech]

There are two ac units in our server room.

[Letgomyleghoe]

4 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

There are two ac units in our server room.

wUt, why not just large fans at the top of the walls to exhaust the hot hair out of the room?
- I understand it’s ideal to keep everything nice and cool, but the cost of all that ac lol.

[Bitter]

15 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

There are two ac units in our server room.

Eaton disagrees with this. With the smaller size of the new unit and it's better positioning I hope heat isn't an issue going forward. Also that whole bus-bar weirdness. And it was cute seeing you geek over a swivel impact socket, you should see some of the other amazing tools mechanics use!

9 minutes ago, scuff gang said:

wUt, why not just large fans at the top of the walls to exhaust the hot hair out of the room?
- I understand it’s ideal to keep everything nice and cool, but the cost of all that ac lol.

Ballah, he's makin it rain.

[Letgomyleghoe]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

The room!   The room!   The room is on fire!

WE DONT NEED NO WATER LET THE MOTHERSERVERS BURN!

[DO-MAM1 game account]

You can give me the broken ups with everything that you have that goes with the broken ups because I have a use for the parts that are inside because it’s stuff I need for a project.

[Beerzerker]

1 hour ago, DO-MAM1 game account said:

You can give me the broken ups with everything that you have that goes with the broken ups because I have a use for the parts that are inside because it’s stuff I need for a project.

Oh no..... They didn't just ask that.... I mean really....
And it's their very first post here too!