London Electric Buses to trial new sound

[The1Dickens]

This reminds me of a story I read somewhere about someone who got a new (at the time) hybrid, where it's all electric below 15mph (24km/h). They backed over their cat and heard the entire painful ordeal because of how quiet it was.

 

There is at least 1 bus in my area that sounds like a muscle car, so you hear it coming from a block away. I forget what fuel type it is (not diesel for sure), but that would be a good sound to play since it would blend in with regular motoring, is noticeable (almost everyone turns to look at loud muscle cars, whether in admiration or disgust), and probably the only way you won't notice it is if you are completely oblivious to your surroundings.

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

Just constantly play "the wheels on the bus" song through the loud speaker and people will know the bus is coming.

Dead bus drivers.  It could become a problem.  Run mining yourself over with your own bus is hard but it doesn’t mean someone won’t manage it.

[mr moose]

9 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

All motion makes sound. It's a critical part of the way people feel their position in environments by the sounds around them. EVs cause problems because they're mixed in with other vehicle noises in the background so you can't isolate their sound (via the tires, mostly). It's not an issue away from denser populated areas, but, for most, it's a real issue that far too many skip over.

 

More specifically for Electric Drive-based vehicles, the sound needs to be easily effected by the doppler effect, so you can't actually adjust for the changing position. Some of the early hums were really badly chosen. 

Humans experience many motions that are not associated with sound.  Things in the distance, things that operate below our ability to perceive, many things we only experience through video or a glass enclosure.  All combustion engines have tcommon sonic traits that we have associated with them over several generations.   This is what makes it easy for us to immediately associate those sounds with moving danger.   If a tree started make those sounds our first instinct would be to move out of the way.  Electric vehicles need to be able to replicate that.

[Bombastinator]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Humans experience many motions that are not associated with sound.  Things in the distance, things that operate below our ability to perceive, many things we only experience through video or a glass enclosure.  All combustion engines have tcommon sonic traits that we have associated with them over several generations.   This is what makes it easy for us to immediately associate those sounds with moving danger.   If a tree started make those sounds our first instinct would be to move out of the way.  Electric vehicles need to be able to replicate that.

The problem is it’s learned.  There were a lot more years of galloping horses than automobile engines.  That coconut banging from “Monty python and the holy grail” is pretty british too.  Maybe an amplification of the sounds electric cars actually make.  Help people get used to things.

[mr moose]

43 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The problem is it’s learned.  There were a lot more years of galloping horses than automobile engines.  That coconut banging from “Monty python and the holy grail” is pretty british too.  Maybe an amplification of the sounds electric cars actually make.  Help people get used to things.

I don't even think it's a problem as the solution is very simply and cheap.    We don't need to adapt to new devices when we can adapt new devices to work for us.

[yolosnail]

9 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Bus driver suicide isn’t needed any more than pedestrians walking in front of busses. 

Bus drivers can commit suicide all they like, as long as it's not when they're driving the bus! /S

 

Electric vehicles already have a warning noise, it's called a horn. Pedestrians manage to walk in front of diesel buses all the time as it is!

 

The way I see it is if somebody just walks out in front of a bus and gets hit, it's their own fault. You can argue all day that you didn't hear it, but if you can't see a massive bloody bus coming towards you, maybe you should have gone to Specsavers! 

At no point should you be in a situation where you are in front of a bus, if you're crossing a road (at a designated crossing place) and you get hit, that's the drivers fault, not the buses. If you cross somewhere you're not supposed to, that's your fault. 

 

As much as people like to say they are, electric vehicles are not silent. Our local bus company has just ordered a batch of EVs, and when they had the demos out, you could definitely hear them pulling up in a busy bus station full of diesel buses. And as a passenger on board, it was no quieter than a well refined diesel bus

[williamcll]

How about instead of noise, allow nearby people stream to the bus via bluetooth?

Imagine going to the market and you hear "EIGHTEEN NAKED COW-"

[suicidalfranco]

what a waste of resources. we finally can somehow mitigate sound pollution in the cities, but nooooo, we have the save the dumb dumbs who have forgotten the one life lesson their where taught when their little:

before crossing the road

stop

look at one side

look the other side

make sure no one is coming

cross

 

 

[mr moose]

5 hours ago, yolosnail said:

Bus drivers can commit suicide all they like, as long as it's not when they're driving the bus! /S

 

Electric vehicles already have a warning noise, it's called a horn. Pedestrians manage to walk in front of diesel buses all the time as it is!

 

The way I see it is if somebody just walks out in front of a bus and gets hit, it's their own fault. You can argue all day that you didn't hear it, but if you can't see a massive bloody bus coming towards you, maybe you should have gone to Specsavers! 

At no point should you be in a situation where you are in front of a bus, if you're crossing a road (at a designated crossing place) and you get hit, that's the drivers fault, not the buses. If you cross somewhere you're not supposed to, that's your fault. 

Your whole argument rests on people being able to rely solely on vision for survival cues.  You can only see in one direction while we (people with average or better hearing) rely on 360 degree sound cues to warn us of danger from everywhere else.   You cannot remove half of a persons senses (because texture, temperature and smell don't play much if any role in this context) and expect people to be just as aware of their surroundings.   

 

5 hours ago, yolosnail said:

As much as people like to say they are, electric vehicles are not silent. Our local bus company has just ordered a batch of EVs, and when they had the demos out, you could definitely hear them pulling up in a busy bus station full of diesel buses. And as a passenger on board, it was no quieter than a well refined diesel bus

They can be very silent, I have witnessed it myself, the buses might make more of a noise than a car, but not enough and not the right kind of noise for people to habitually recognize as danger.

 

 

 

Before people go any further just making claims about what people can and can't do and what is their "own fault",  get a small education in just how important hearing is to survival when you don't have a hearing impediment, and just how much the brain can suffer in the event of loss of hearing.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201511/hearing-our-eyes-seeing-our-ears

 

Also:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-hearing-loss-injury/hearing-loss-tied-to-higher-risk-of-accidental-injuries-idUSKBN1HV2V3

https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/Medical_Condition_Driving/pages/Sec3-Hearing.htm

 

If you make something harder to hear you make it harder to notice.  We can't blame humans for being human.  

[Monkey Dust]

45 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Your whole argument rests on people being able to rely solely on vision for survival cues.  You can only see in one direction while we (people with average or better hearing) rely on 360 degree sound cues to warn us of danger from everywhere else.   You cannot remove half of a persons senses (because texture, temperature and smell don't play much if any role in this context) and expect people to be just as aware of their surroundings.   

 

They can be very silent, I have witnessed it myself, the buses might make more of a noise than a car, but not enough and not the right kind of noise for people to habitually recognize as danger.

 

 

 

Before people go any further just making claims about what people can and can't do and what is their "own fault",  get a small education in just how important hearing is to survival when you don't have a hearing impediment, and just how much the brain can suffer in the event of loss of hearing.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201511/hearing-our-eyes-seeing-our-ears

 

Also:

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-hearing-loss-injury/hearing-loss-tied-to-higher-risk-of-accidental-injuries-idUSKBN1HV2V3

https://one.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/Medical_Condition_Driving/pages/Sec3-Hearing.htm

 

If you make something harder to hear you make it harder to notice.  We can't blame humans for being human.  

Also, cyclists. Supposed to be on the road, looking forward, but need to know if some bus sized is coming up behind them. And of course blind, or otherwise sight impaired people.

 

Even among those who should be able to see a bus coming, if they step off the curb in front of a bus they could easily be killed. Even if you take up the sociopathic position that is not a problem because it's their fault, there is still the bus driver who has to live with having killed someone. There is still all the witnesses, the emergency services who have to extract the body, the poor bastard back at the bus depot with the pressure washer, and all the traffic chaos a fatality causes. We should be doing everything we can to prevent such serious accidents.   

[Trik'Stari]

9 hours ago, yolosnail said:

Bus drivers can commit suicide all they like, as long as it's not when they're driving the bus! /S

 

Electric vehicles already have a warning noise, it's called a horn. Pedestrians manage to walk in front of diesel buses all the time as it is!

 

The way I see it is if somebody just walks out in front of a bus and gets hit, it's their own fault. You can argue all day that you didn't hear it, but if you can't see a massive bloody bus coming towards you, maybe you should have gone to Specsavers! 

At no point should you be in a situation where you are in front of a bus, if you're crossing a road (at a designated crossing place) and you get hit, that's the drivers fault, not the buses. If you cross somewhere you're not supposed to, that's your fault. 

 

As much as people like to say they are, electric vehicles are not silent. Our local bus company has just ordered a batch of EVs, and when they had the demos out, you could definitely hear them pulling up in a busy bus station full of diesel buses. And as a passenger on board, it was no quieter than a well refined diesel bus

Finally, someone else who gets it.

 

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK. YOU HAVE EYES. USE THEM.

[Bombastinator]

3 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Finally, someone else who gets it.

 

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK. YOU HAVE EYES. USE THEM.

No. Everyone gets it.  They got it the first time.  

[TempestCatto]

On 12/26/2019 at 5:34 AM, Tech_Dreamer said:

Imagine having to make fake engine noises through loud speakers inorder to let people know that you're coming.

 

                                                                                              This post was made by the Diesel Engine Gang.

Imagine thinking your diesel engine is actually loud.

 

This post was made by the Detroit Diesel Engine Gang.

Spoiler

 

 

[Tech_Dreamer]

10 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Finally, someone else who gets it.

 

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK. YOU HAVE EYES. USE THEM.

i kinda agree but mostly disagree on this, mainly because we expect all of the people to be smart & alert, aware of their surroundings. but in reality lets just say like 80% of the people are in their own worlds most of time, especially in rush hour.  "i didn't hear it coming" is realistically a stupid lawsuit that will work in favor of the victim in this case . plus lots of bicycle accidents are bound to happen who plug their ears.

[mr moose]

10 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Finally, someone else who gets it.

 

YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK. YOU HAVE EYES. USE THEM.

Humans are supposed to do lots of things, but we are human thus not perfect. The reality is that accidents occur at a much higher rate in those with hearing loss (even though they are aware of it and go out of their way to mitigate for it by looking more often).   It is not just a simple case of look and you wont get hit.  

[TempestCatto]

15 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Humans are supposed to do lots of things, but we are human thus not perfect. The reality is that accidents occur at a much higher rate in those with hearing loss (even though they are aware of it and go out of their way to mitigate for it by looking more often).   It is not just a simple case of look and you wont get hit.  

To add to this, I feel like all electric vehicles should emit some kind of sound with no way to disable it. Mostly to help prevent criminals from using its silence to sneak up on unsuspecting people and mug/rob/kidnap them.

[mr moose]

Just now, TempestCatto said:

To add to this, I feel like all electric vehicles should emit some kind of sound with no way to disable it. Mostly to help prevent criminals from using its silence to sneak up on unsuspecting people and mug/rob/kidnap them.

If I had an electric vehicle I would want it to make noise so I could hear it leaving the drive at 2AM.  Then I can call the police and get them onto it before they hide it somewhere the GPS won't work.

[Anomnomnomaly]

On 12/26/2019 at 10:35 AM, yaboistar said:

Imagine having to compress your fuel to the point it explodes.

 

                                                                        This post was made by the Steam Engine Gang.

Imagine having to burn compressed carbon, to heat water, to create steam, to move a piston through a series of valves to rotate a wheel to power a machine.

 

This post was made by the Water Wheel Gang.