[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[Fasauceome]

3 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

 

So he should post the screenshot of his oscilloscope with ripple at 120% load, until it is not done it is the same as the test by Pceva. According to yourself.

I'm talking specifically about the platform and the build, not the load test.

 

Although he did ask for some people to lend vega cards for testing, I don't remember if any data materialized from that. Either way, GX =/= FX (et. al.), which was apparent when he popped it open.

 

go ahead and bring the discussion here, there are more fine points to go over.

multiple pages of the tier list topic have discussion on the placement of the Focus line, which belongs here honestly. People like you aren't bringing anything new to the table, and all of the arguments you've made so far have been recited before.

[Juular]

2 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

multiple pages of the tier list topic have discussion on the placement of the Focus line

More like half of them, previous thread including.

[GoldenLag]

Just now, SexualHealing said:

It does not say anything other than Focus Plus v1 compatibility issue with a few graphic cards.

it does say that there are 2 variants of the focus fx. 

 

pre and post january 2018. 

 

focus gx being a new PSU introduced that has yet to show signs of the issues present with the old focus. 

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phanteks-amp-series-550w-power-supply-review/3

 

which shown here doesnt have the ripple issues on overload. which you could find in the sources. the Phanteks amp being focus gx based. 

[LukeSavenije]

15 minutes ago, Juular said:

And regarding that high ripple issue with CM MWE Bronze, i think, it's fixed on V2, but not sure, might have @LukeSavenije word on this.

there's still a bit high ripple specifically on v2, since it's gospower's first atx psu, this wasn't entirely unexpected. cm is currently busy with a fix, but we're talking about ~80mv here at 10% load, but a fix should be ready in the coming month

[SexualHealing]

9 minutes ago, Fasauceome said:

I'm talking specifically about the platform and the build, not the load test.

 

Although he did ask for some people to lend vega cards for testing, I don't remember if any data materialized from that. Either way, GX =/= FX (et. al.), which was apparent when he popped it open.

 

go ahead and bring the discussion here, there are more fine points to go over.

multiple pages of the tier list topic have discussion on the placement of the Focus line, which belongs here honestly. People like you aren't bringing anything new to the table, and all of the arguments you've made so far have been recited before.

 

I am familiar with that topic, a search for Seasonic Focus issues only brings LukeSavenije on several forums saying you should not buy it, or references to his posts. 

 

There is a picture of the GX internals in the Seasonic site, from what is visible it is the same as Focus Plus just as claimed by Seasonic. Several Focus models have non visible differences. What makes the GX special without any actual testing? Nothing.

[Fasauceome]

Just now, SexualHealing said:

 

I am familiar with that topic, a search for Seasonic Focus issues only brings LukeSavenije on several forums saying you should not buy it, or references to his posts. 

 

There is a picture of the GX internals in the Seasonic site, from what is visible it is the same as Focus Plus just as claimed by Seasonic. Several Focus models have non visible differences. What makes the GX special without any actual testing? Nothing.

again, just spinning your tires in the mud. haven't brought any new information to the table yet, and no reason to change tiers.

[GoldenLag]

3 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

What makes the GX special without any actual testing? Nothing.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phanteks-amp-series-550w-power-supply-review

 

testing. 

 

no ripple issue being seen. id say that is a difference. 

 

4 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

I am familiar with that topic, a search for Seasonic Focus issues only brings LukeSavenije on several forums saying you should not buy it, or references to his posts.

issues, not related to luke posted elsewhere:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/9z50s6/seasonic_focus_plus_having_compatibility_issues/

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/a1e9h6/warning_known_issues_with_seasonic_focus_plus/

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/gtx-970-shutting-down-a-few-minutes-into-games.3541008/

 

not the ripple issue as that is not something normal people run into. and is of lesser concern. 

[Dissitesuxba11s]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet but it looks like NZXT has released a new power supply series.

https://www.nzxt.com/product-overview/c-series

[LukeSavenije]

12 minutes ago, Dissitesuxba11s said:

Not sure if this was mentioned yet but it looks like NZXT has released a new power supply series.

https://www.nzxt.com/product-overview/c-series

yeah... i've seen them and have informed a bit at them already... they'll likely be added soon-ish when i have confirmation on some last things

[SexualHealing]

26 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phanteks-amp-series-550w-power-supply-review

 

testing. 

 

no ripple issue being seen. id say that is a difference. 

 

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-ssr-750fx-focus-plus-750-gold-psu,5206.html

 

No ripple being seen either.

 

The relevant "against" remain the same: 

• Low 5VSB efficiency
• Transient response at 3.3V

But the Phanteks actually has slightly worse ripple, "Ripple suppression" is not even mentioned in "For"

[GoldenLag]

11 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-ssr-750fx-focus-plus-750-gold-psu,5206.html

 

No ripple being seen either.

no ripple testing being done past 110%

 

edit: and i am aware that the phantex doesnt do the testing either past 110%. but it being a new plattform

 

to quote Aris:

Quote

Because of the low nominal capacity, the OCP triggering points are set higher than 130%. From the moment it doesn't cause any ripple issues, this isn't a concern for us.

source: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phanteks-amp-series-550w-power-supply-review/3

 

no ripple issue being seen

[SexualHealing]

1 hour ago, GoldenLag said:

edit: and i am aware that the phantex doesnt do the testing either past 110%. but it being a new plattform

 

to quote Aris:

source: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phanteks-amp-series-550w-power-supply-review/3

 

no ripple issue being seen

That quote is valid to any PSU. The ripple being seen is higher than Focus Plus. Only here people rate untested and unseen ripple. 

 

Focus GX and the other new Focuses are good just because.

All previous Focuses are not good just because.

[GoldenLag]

10 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

That quote is valid to any PSU.

Its valid for the PSU tested. 

10 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

The ripple being seen is higher than Focus Plus

During nominal load, is the ripple sufficiently different to warrant a comment on it? Not really. 

11 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

All previous Focuses are not good just because.

That would be an odd reason to add to the allready existing reasons that have been outlined multiple times. 

12 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

Focus GX and the other new Focuses are good just because.

That would also be an odd reason, as comments from Aris says its fine, while also testing showing nothing is perticularly wrong. 

 

13 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

Only here people rate untested and unseen ripple. 

Actually you are the only one suggesting we should rate a PSU based on the fact a different plattform PSU, carrying the same name had issues. 

 

Meaning you want us to rate a PSU based on data from a different PSU. A PSU that doesnt carry the same plattform.....

[SexualHealing]

14 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

there's still a bit high ripple specifically on v2, since it's gospower's first atx psu, this wasn't entirely unexpected. cm is currently busy with a fix, but we're talking about ~80mv here at 10% load, but a fix should be ready in the coming month

According to this source the V2 ripple can get above ATX specs at normal loads of 25w and 300w. Based on that this is a PSU i would not recommend for any kind of computer. I know in practice how PSUs like this will silently kill a computer over time. 

https://nl.hardware.info/artikel/9871/goedkope-voedingen-round-up-300-450w-vanaf-37-euro

[LukeSavenije]

1 hour ago, SexualHealing said:

According to this source the V2 ripple can get above ATX specs at normal loads of 25w and 300w

interesting... the overshoot was only 80mv at cyben's testing

 

though cm and gospower are aware of this, and for a first consumer psu this honestly isn't unexpected... fix should come around this month

 

edit: i had a talk with CM around this, a fix has been made, but due to problems hasn't been in production yet. the psus have been moved to tier c+ (mwe bronze v2) and tier c (mwe 80+ v2) for now, until I've seen more around the fix

[aussiekendoll]

Is be quiet! Straight power 11 that good? Should I buy be quiet! Straight power 11 or seasonic focus px? 650W

[LukeSavenije]

1 minute ago, aussiekendoll said:

Is be quiet! Straight power 11 that good? Should I buy be quiet! Straight power 11 or seasonic focus px? 650W

if it's the px, make sure it's the 2019 version, not the 2017

 

at 650w, both will be perfect options, depending on how much you pay for them

[SexualHealing]

3 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

interesting... the overshoot was only 80mv at cyben's testing

 

though cm and gospower are aware of this, and for a first consumer psu this honestly isn't unexpected... fix should come around this month

 

edit: i had a talk with CM around this, a fix has been made, but due to problems hasn't been in production yet. the psus have been moved to tier c+ (mwe bronze v2) and tier c (mwe 80+ v2) for now, until I've seen more around the fix

 

 

Regarding Focus Plus. Look at this test, the link is direct to the protection review page but there is a full review: https://www.tweakpc.de/hardware/tests/netzteile/seasonic_focus_gold/s08.php

 

It is the Seasonic Focus Plus 650 Gold

 

OPP is trigged at 870W

OCP for the 12v is also trigged at 870w

 

Both with no issues according to the reviewer. 

 

There is a video of the review, i don`t unsderstand his language but he tested ripple at 120% and the ripple at 120% seems to be 42mv only.  Someone who can understand German could confirm this.

I d

 

[Juular]

8 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

There is a video of the review, i don`t unsderstand his language but he tested ripple at 120% and the ripple at 120% seems to be 42mv only

Which is still kinda high which might be a sign that platform in general isn't very good at overload ripple so it might be worse with other samples (as with one in that Chinese review).

[SexualHealing]

28 minutes ago, Juular said:

Which is still kinda high which might be a sign that platform in general isn't very good at overload ripple so it might be worse with other samples (as with one in that Chinese review).

 

Are you serious? ATX spec is 120mv... 42mv at 120% is ridiculously low, you will hardly find anything better than that even in more expensive PSUs, 

[LukeSavenije]

@SexualHealing i'm cutting this off for now

 

I'm aware of tweakpc's testing in this, as I've spoken before with Robert and Poiu, and they've already told me about the testing. I speak a little German so i could understand what's been said here, but I'm rather safe than sorry when these kinds of issues are found and there's theoretical reason to why this could be. Focus 2019 will keep it's position, focus 2017 will keep it's position.

 

we could go on and on about this, but it's the decision I made with the rest of the team at the time, and since the 2017 line is now out of production, i really see no reason to move it in the first place. I'm already trying to inform at some oems if they are switching to GX/GM/PX or not, to adjust if they can confirm me so.

 

thanks for your time, but this is the choice that's made here

[Juular]

9 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

Are you serious? ATX spec is 120mv... 42mv at 120% is ridiculously low, you will hardly find anything better than that even in more expensive PSUs, 

Yeah, i might've been spoiled by Corsair RMx 8mV ripple at 110% but other common platforms including Focus GX seem to have about 35-40mV ripple at 110% too. Regardless, ripple isn't the only issue with Focus FX and it's likely that shutdown issues it were tiered down because aren't related to ripple at all. There are no use in the further discussion about this matter, everything were said already, and it's position wouldn't change.

[SexualHealing]

38 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

@SexualHealing i'm cutting this off for now

 

I'm aware of tweakpc's testing in this, as I've spoken before with Robert and Poiu, and they've already told me about the testing. I speak a little German so i could understand what's been said here, but I'm rather safe than sorry when these kinds of issues are found and there's theoretical reason to why this could be. Focus 2019 will keep it's position, focus 2017 will keep it's position.

 

we could go on and on about this, but it's the decision I made with the rest of the team at the time, and since the 2017 line is now out of production, i really see no reason to move it in the first place. I'm already trying to inform at some oems if they are switching to GX/GM/PX or not, to adjust if they can confirm me so.

 

thanks for your time, but this is the choice that's made here

 

You have no reason for that.,You started accusing Seasonic long ago with no proof. Pceva a completely unknown site from China is simply the last thing you could find to try to support your misinformation, before that you were already accusing them. You are simply wrong, no known reviewer found any issue with the Focus Plus. And this one has a video of the test. Juular is as biased as he seems to trust text more than a video, 42mv too high, what an expert,.

 

I asked you for sources of all your claims and you never provided any proof.

[LukeSavenije]

6 minutes ago, SexualHealing said:

asked you for sources of all your claims and you never provided any proof

as i said, i end discussion here

[aussiekendoll]

13 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

if it's the px, make sure it's the 2019 version, not the 2017

 

at 650w, both will be perfect options, depending on how much you pay for them

how to find out if its 2019 version?