Spot on launch

[pas008]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Neither can this, speed isn't exactly its strong suit.

It may not fall over but that doesn't mean it can hold a steady aim while firing. It definitely can't handle the recoil and move on rocky terrain, which would be its only advantage over existing mobile turrets that pack a lot more firepower than a rifle (or, more realistically, a handgun), have a much higher resistance to gun fire and cost a lot less.

it can go up and down stairs and video show walking through debris

 

and how do you know it cant be programmed for recoil or naturally adjusting for it?

 

just like anything else mods can be made for other purposes

just wow

[rcmaehl]

3 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

but...

+

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

NEED A DISPENSER HERE

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

it can go up and down stairs and video show walking through debris

I said it's not fast, not that it can't climb stairs.

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

and how do you know it cant be programmed for recoil or naturally adjusting for it?

Physics. It's just not heavy enough. Just because it can avoid falling over doesn't mean it can hold position when shoved. Even in their videos the robot to stagger for a few meters just to recover from a shove. Not to mention that on slopes its stability and resistance to pushes would be drastically reduced. A bigger model might work, this one definitely can't.

3 hours ago, Orangeator said:

Okay... First off, not talking about a weapon. I was talking about taking the load off of current soldiers, aka "less suffering" if you want to look at it from a utilitarian perspective.

If you don't want them to suffer don't make them invade other nations. It's THAT easy. Also, "less suffering" for them just means exponentially more suffering for whomever they're fighting. This is a very bad argument.

 

If it's used in war and helps the army kill people, directly or not, it might as well be a weapon; potayto, potahto.

3 hours ago, Orangeator said:

Seconds, I said military because in the contemporary political world, the military has one of the largest budgets to finance research technology like this.

Yeah, and that's really, really bad. I refute the idea that I should be happy that the military could advance useful technology - they shouldn't be in that position to begin with.

3 hours ago, Orangeator said:

Also, just because civilian investment is doing "just fine" doesn't mean it cannot be improved by spending military budget on researching a technology to benefit mass populations outside of the military use case.

No investment made by the military is without a military use case... at best it has some positive outcome for civilians but that's beside the point. I don't want it to have a military application, a marginally slower development (if that's even the case) is of no concern.

3 hours ago, Orangeator said:

From a utilitarian perspective that would be the best use of those resources.

No, the best use would be to just invest it in research directly without going through the military. As it is in most "western" countries other than the US, I might add.

[pas008]

3 hours ago, Sauron said:

I said it's not fast, not that it can't climb stairs.

Physics. It's just not heavy enough. Just because it can avoid falling over doesn't mean it can hold position when shoved. Even in their videos the robot to stagger for a few meters just to recover from a shove. Not to mention that on slopes its stability and resistance to pushes would be drastically reduced. A bigger model might work, this one definitely can't.

If you don't want them to suffer don't make them invade other nations. It's THAT easy. Also, "less suffering" for them just means exponentially more suffering for whomever they're fighting. This is a very bad argument.

 

If it's used in war and helps the army kill people, directly or not, it might as well be a weapon; potayto, potahto.

Yeah, and that's really, really bad. I refute the idea that I should be happy that the military could advance useful technology - they shouldn't be in that position to begin with.

No investment made by the military is without a military use case... at best it has some positive outcome for civilians but that's beside the point. I don't want it to have a military application, a marginally slower development (if that's even the case) is of no concern.

No, the best use would be to just invest it in research directly without going through the military. As it is in most "western" countries other than the US, I might add.

So you the all knowing

 knows this can't be modded for military use hahaha

 

Small drones can fire weapons

Damn small kids can fire weapons

But this can't cause you say so

 

And clearing caves in mountains isn't about speed its about life risk

 

 

[paddy-stone]

Quote

Spot

The difference!

 

 

[TechyBen]

On 9/24/2019 at 4:20 PM, TVwazhere said:

Finally I can combine my love for dogs and robots!

I'm getting one. Where's the nearest hardware store stocked with em?

[Orangeator]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:33 PM, Sauron said:

If you don't want them to suffer don't make them invade other nations. It's THAT easy. Also, "less suffering" for them just means exponentially more suffering for whomever they're fighting. This is a very bad argument.

 

If it's used in war and helps the army kill people, directly or not, it might as well be a weapon; potayto, potahto.

Yeah, and that's really, really bad. I refute the idea that I should be happy that the military could advance useful technology - they shouldn't be in that position to begin with.

No investment made by the military is without a military use case... at best it has some positive outcome for civilians but that's beside the point. I don't want it to have a military application, a marginally slower development (if that's even the case) is of no concern.

No, the best use would be to just invest it in research directly without going through the military. As it is in most "western" countries other than the US, I might add.

Okay, everything you said is an argument from the viewpoint that the military shouldn't be in the position it is in today. But that's not the topic at hand. Unfortunate or not, the US military currently, and for the foreseeable future, IS in the position of having an extremely high budget. And that's extremely unlikely to change. So working within reality and not hypothetical arguments, or what things SHOULD be, spending that budget on things that could benefit society is better than not... And to counter your idea of, "well yeah, but the government is only going to spend that kind of money on things that will help the military, that will end up killing people", of course! So, in the real world, if that is going to happen regardless, I'd rather them invest in technology that absolutely could benefit society than not... And to say otherwise is pure fantasy total utilitarianism. Make an argument within the reality we are in or waste your breath on hypothetical arguments of the way things should be.

[Orangeator]

21 hours ago, TechyBen said:

I'm getting one. Where's the nearest hardware store stocked with em?

Why just the hardware store? Pet shops should have them too, right? Haha.

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Okay, everything you said is an argument from the viewpoint that the military shouldn't be in the position it is in today. But that's not the topic at hand. Unfortunate or not, the US military currently, and for the foreseeable future, IS in the position of having an extremely high budget. And that's extremely unlikely to change. So working within reality and not hypothetical arguments, or what things SHOULD be, spending that budget on things that could benefit society is better than not... And to counter your idea of, "well yeah, but the government is only going to spend that kind of money on things that will help the military, that will end up killing people", of course! So, in the real world, if that is going to happen regardless, I'd rather them invest in technology that absolutely could benefit society than not... And to say otherwise is pure fantasy total utilitarianism. Make an argument within the reality we are in or waste your breath on hypothetical arguments of the way things should be.

How about instead of just blindly accepting things because it has been that way for a while you consider the idea of change? It would be extremely easy to divert that money to something else, all it takes is the political will to do so. It's not a dream fantasy land, there are plenty of countries that organize their priorities differently. The apathy of people like you is what allows this nonsense to continue.

 

And as I said, even if it were a completely unchangeable reality I really would rather have this not exist than have it help the military. I don't see how it would be useful enough to the general population to justify its employment in war zones. I don't like the idea of investing in technology for its own sake if it means the military get another toy they don't need to kill even more innocent people. I would also argue we have waaaaaay more pressing problems the government should concern itself with that don't involve quadrupedal robots and the military is never going to care about those.

[Orangeator]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

How about instead of just blindly accepting things because it has been that way for a while you consider the idea of change? It would be extremely easy to divert that money to something else, all it takes is the political will to do so. It's not a dream fantasy land, there are plenty of countries that organize their priorities differently. The apathy of people like you is what allows this nonsense to continue.

 

And as I said, even if it were a completely unchangeable reality I really would rather have this not exist than have it help the military. I don't see how it would be useful enough to the general population to justify its employment in war zones. I don't like the idea of investing in technology for its own sake if it means the military get another toy they don't need to kill even more innocent people. I would also argue we have waaaaaay more pressing problems the government should concern itself with that don't involve quadrupedal robots and the military is never going to care about those.

Okay, look. I am obviously in agreement with you on the idea that the government needs to cool it down with the invasions, cut back on a lot of its budget... Etc. And a lot of people would too, that is not my point here. My point, is that investment into robotics like this, programs like Boston Dynamics (obviously not just the quadrupedal robot "spot") would absolutely have a benefit to society. Just imagine the countless applications robots could be used for in day to day life. However, don't even try and say that you honestly believe if a few people or, even a lot of people, just pushed with some "political will" to start cutting back on military spending... That it would pass the senate and the house and get signed off by a sitting president. And some political will isn't going to change (my guess is) about 60-80% of the U.S. population mind set of cutting down the military budget... That is a long term effort that will absolutely take a decade or more to accomplish. So in the unchangeable reality we are in at the moment, I'd argue that investing in a technology that could benefit not only U.S. citizens lives, but the world, is a good investment, even if its justification for those funds, come from U.S. Military use.

[Thaldor]

I take two! 14kg each is just perfect to go for longer hikes, no need to plan where to get more food and other supplies and that 14kg is a lot of stuff. ONly problem is that 90 minute run time, that's way too low for my use, but it's early adopter so it's probably okay to hack into them something like triple battery pack for longer battery life.

[Sauron]

29 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

My point, is that investment into robotics like this, programs like Boston Dynamics (obviously not just the quadrupedal robot "spot") would absolutely have a benefit to society.

I'm not willing to accept that because I've seen no evidence that supports that point. We have struggled in this very thread to find a use case for this stuff. Even if it's actually useful for something that isn't a war effort it's probably going to be a very niche thing, and this goes for everything BD makes.

32 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Just imagine the countless applications robots could be used for in day to day life.

For the life of me I can't. We have robots, I don't see them used much in day to day life right now and I don't see why robots that walk instead of just having wheels would change that; and if they truly were that life changing I don't believe we'd need military investment for them to be developed and marketed. Remind me of when exactly the military invested into the development of, say, smartphones when nobody else would...?

36 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

And some political will isn't going to change (my guess is) about 60-80% of the U.S. population mind set of cutting down the military budget...

Oh believe me, it's a lot lower than that. We have polls on this and we have candidates right now that would instantly cut the military budget if elected.

39 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

So in the unchangeable reality we are in at the moment

With that attitude it sure is unchangeable. Can't fail if you don't even try, am I right?

[pas008]

11 minutes ago, Sauron said:

I'm not willing to accept that because I've seen no evidence that supports that point. We have struggled in this very thread to find a use case for this stuff. Even if it's actually useful for something that isn't a war effort it's probably going to be a very niche thing, and this goes for everything BD makes.

For the life of me I can't. We have robots, I don't see them used much in day to day life right now and I don't see why robots that walk instead of just having wheels would change that; and if they truly were that life changing I don't believe we'd need military investment for them to be developed and marketed. Remind me of when exactly the military invested into the development of, say, smartphones when nobody else would...?

Oh believe me, it's a lot lower than that. We have polls on this and we have candidates right now that would instantly cut the military budget if elected.

With that attitude it sure is unchangeable. Can't fail if you don't even try, am I right?

I see robots everyday i work

robots that can maneuver over objects and up stairs is a big feature, right now maybe not much but just one step forward

just like anything else in the tech world, first gens have loads of work

you act like these cant get faster, get higher load, or longer battery life

 

and why would the military invest in smartphones really? they already were communicating shit loads of info mobile wise for decades

 

[The King of the Undead]

but is it a robot or RC?

[Sauron]

40 minutes ago, pas008 said:

and why would the military invest in smartphones really? they already were communicating shit loads of info mobile wise for decades

That's the point. Smartphones have been successful and extremely useful despite not getting any funding from the military and having no military applications. That can be the case for these robots, too, if they truly are useful.

41 minutes ago, pas008 said:

I see robots everyday i work

What you see are probably either these

or these

 

Neither of which were developed through military funding or have much of a use case outside of industrial production lines; also, unlike anything BD is doing, they were developed with a specific use in mind - the form follows the function, whereas in BD's case it seems like they just thought robots with legs would be cool and now they're looking for something to do with them.

 

Spot is, at best, a fancy (and extremely expensive) cup holder that can follow you up the stairs. Not exactly revolutionary. It doesn't matter how much capacity and speed you add, it will never do anything as effectively and efficiently as something that was specifically designed for that purpose. It's a product looking for a use case and those invariably end up being extreme niches or flops. Time will tell but I really don't think it's worth investing a load of tax money, let alone people's lives, into.

[pas008]

2 minutes ago, Sauron said:

That's the point. Smartphones have been successful and extremely useful despite not getting any funding from the military and having no military applications. That can be the case for these robots, too, if they truly are useful.

What you see are probably either these

or these

 

Neither of which were developed through military funding or have much of a use case outside of industrial production lines; also, unlike anything BD is doing, they were developed with a specific use in mind - the form follows the function, whereas in BD's case it seems like they just thought robots with legs would be cool and now they're looking for something to do with them.

 

Spot is, at best, a fancy (and extremely expensive) cup holder that can follow you up the stairs. Not exactly revolutionary. It doesn't matter how much capacity and speed you add, it will never do anything as effectively and efficiently as something that was specifically designed for that purpose. It's a product looking for a use case and those invariably end up being extreme niches or flops. Time will tell but I really don't think it's worth investing a load of tax money, let alone people's lives, into.

spots balance and maneuvering tech is great imho

only can get better

like i said you are quick to judge a product now but not looking forward once speed/capacity gets better

I can see many uses once this occurs

but just like I said 1st gen so work still needs to be done

and needs to get in the hands of others

[TechyBen]

On 9/27/2019 at 5:34 AM, VegetableStu said:

dude: "awww whozzze a good robot goggie wuh buh guh"

spot: *mortally tramples on dude*

The thing is tiny. It's like when my cat tries to attack me.

Me: Nope little cat. I am your master!!!

[pas008]

on patrol

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/robot-dog-from-boston-dynamics-spot-working-with-police-2019-11