has AMD hit rock bottom?!

[patrickjp93]

That's the purpose of FUD after all. OP's anti AMD propaganda posts are nothing but FUD. Don't worry about it.

 

 

That's not what he said. He said that Intel would have to prove they didn't abuse their new monopoly status, and that would be difficult with the pricing scheme they already have. The anti monopoly laws are strict in EU, and no company is big enough to ignore it. EU's penalties are based on percentage of the global revenue of the company, so it hurts a LOT.

 

I still don't understand why you are so pro NVidia when it comes to taking over CPU divisions. But looking at how bad the 700 and 900 series are hardware wise, I doubt NVidia actually has the competencies to be even close to Intel.

Intel wouldn't have to prove anything. Prosecutors would have to prove it did abuse its monopoly position. Even in the E.U. the standard of the law is innocent until proven guilty.

 

The 700 and 900 series were exactly the solutions needed at the time by the markets Nvidia was addressing. You can't really future-proof GPUs. At least Nvidia understands this. AMD still tries to.

 

Denver Tegra is a very dangerous design to Intel if it's scaled up in clock speed and core count. Add that IP to whatever is cooking with Zen and you're going to see some blue blood run.

[Deli]

This makes me want to buy to an AMD GPU, to support them not just by words..... :lol:

[Notional]

Intel wouldn't have to prove anything. Prosecutors would have to prove it did abuse its monopoly position. Even in the E.U. the standard of the law is innocent until proven guilty.

 

The 700 and 900 series were exactly the solutions needed at the time by the markets Nvidia was addressing. You can't really future-proof GPUs. At least Nvidia understands this. AMD still tries to.

 

Denver Tegra is a very dangerous design to Intel if it's scaled up in clock speed and core count. Add that IP to whatever is cooking with Zen and you're going to see some blue blood run.

 

That's not how things work in the EU when it comes to gigantic corporations. In fact the EU court has a nasty habit of setting precedence, that almost mimics passing legislation.

 

Untrue. AMD has been able to future proof their hardware in way that 3 year old hardware is matching even the newest stuff by NVidia. As you said yourself, this is NVidia's planned obsolescence. We've seen it with low amounts of VRAM in the 600 and 700 series and now the abysmal async compute capabilities in the 700 and 900 series.

 

What node is supposed to handle that higher clock speed? The IPC might not have been good enough, but the node advantage of Intel made a bigger consequence than anything else. ZEN will change that I'm sure.

[theereal]

nop  :lol:

 

if they go bankrupt  :rolleyes:

 

microsoft will buy it 

 

so... is "nvidia" the one that is screwed  B)

Fanboy lvl 100 Im not hating on AMD im just saying it will be bad for people with their cards, also you dont know that Microsoft will buy them out. It will be bad for customers if AMD goes bankrupt as Nvidia can push prices without and competition.

[themaniac]

No we're not. AMD going bankrupt is about the best thing for the industry. Give Nvdia all the CPU IP and Mark Papermaster and give Intel all the GPU IP and Raja Koduri and watch the cogs turn.

intels got the money if they wanted to they could put nvidia in the position amd's in right now

[theereal]

No we're not. AMD going bankrupt is about the best thing for the industry. Give Nvdia all the CPU IP and Mark Papermaster and give Intel all the GPU IP and Raja Koduri and watch the cogs turn.

Wow, you dont know alot about buisness do you? If AMD goes bankrupt, Nvidia will push prices sky-high, and they can do this beacuse there is no competition.

[patrickjp93]

That's not how things work in the EU when it comes to gigantic corporations. In fact the EU court has a nasty habit of setting precedence, that almost mimics passing legislation.

Untrue. AMD has been able to future proof their hardware in way that 3 year old hardware is matching even the newest stuff by NVidia. As you said yourself, this is NVidia's planned obsolescence. We've seen it with low amounts of VRAM in the 600 and 700 series and now the abysmal async compute capabilities in the 700 and 900 series.

What node is supposed to handle that higher clock speed? The IPC might not have been good enough, but the node advantage of Intel made a bigger consequence than anything else. ZEN will change that I'm sure.

Yeah, but I have given the admins kudos for not being draconian. The heated discussions are usually the best, as a lot of sources and good argumentations pops up.

The only 3-year old hardware keeping up with Nvidia's newest is the highest end of a past architecture. If you mean the 390X keeping up with the 980, that shouldn't surprise anyone given it's a 2816 SP part against a 2048 part. The very fact the 290X was beaten so handily by a part with a half-sized bus and 24% fewer SPs speaks to AMD's terrible drivers and bad ROP allocation.

As per the EU's draconian practices, it's still a presumption of innocence. And I can make a number of good arguments. It'll be a cakewalk for Intel's lawyers.

[themaniac]

Last thing AMD said today that I've read is that they're confident about Zen

Probably a good thing

just because they say so doesn't mean its true

 

nope, not my thing; I will always hate AMD with every fiber in my body

I will point out every flaw and every wrong move they make, I will make them pay (in my own way) for the defects I paid for

why are you combatting me instead of their business decisions? I'm just the messenger ... don't like the bad news? don't read them!

then why dont you point out every flaw and wrong move intel and nvidia made too

[patrickjp93]

Wow, you dont know alot about buisness do you? If AMD goes bankrupt, Nvidia will push prices sky-high, and they can do this beacuse there is no competition.

More than you, and I read a post and think it through before responding. Intel would jump into dGPU competition with it finally having access to fundamental IP that has been patented and in its way for all these years. Nvidia couldn't jack up prices. Further, it's constrained by the same truth Intel is. It has to drive its own sales, and they can't gimp existing cards to do it, as that would be tortuous interference and would be abuse of monopoly. Nvidia would never get away with it. Prices would remain steady.

[Egad]

Wow, you dont know alot about buisness do you? If AMD goes bankrupt, Nvidia will push prices sky-high, and they can do this beacuse there is no competition.

 

If AMD goes bankrupt, hopefully the ATI parts of AMD goes to Intel and they jump in to discrete cards.  There has been speculation that due to patent considerations, specifically ATI/AMD and nVidia hold all of them, it is very difficult for anyone else to enter the discrete cards market, but if Intel could buy ATI's they'd be in.  Honestly all the graphic cards going over to Intel would not be the worst thing in the world, they have the warchest to fight with nVidia and a desire to do so since Intel and nVidia compete in the supercomputing sphere.  

 

On the processor side of things, I don't really know who is there to step up against Intel.  Maybe Samsung, they've started to do stuff in house and maybe they'd jump on all the AGPU work.  

[SIGSEGV]

...Someone needs to find a way to keep AMD alive... or the industry is screwed

[patrickjp93]

intels got the money if they wanted to they could put nvidia in the position amd's in right now

The difference being Nvidia wouldn't buy a company that's already under water and would start with the IP, finances, and brand recognition to fight Intel on even footing. Perhaps in the very long run Nvidia would lose and wither, but by that point we'll have a better alternative to ARM come along which could better compete with x86, not to mention new materials for much higher clocks and performance such as graphene.

[patrickjp93]

...Someone needs to find a way to keep AMD alive... or the industry is screwed

No it wouldn't be. Read my posts. Intel gets Radeon and Koduri, and Nvidia gets x86_64 and papermaster.

[theereal]

More than you, and I read a post and think it through before responding. Intel would jump into dGPU competition with it finally having access to fundamental IP that has been patented and in its way for all these years. Nvidia couldn't jack up prices. Further, it's constrained by the same truth Intel is. It has to drive its own sales, and they can't gimp existing cards to do it, as that would be tortuous interference and would be abuse of monopoly. Nvidia would never get away with it. Prices would remain steady.

Remember the Titan X? The overpriced shit from Nvidia? Then AMD came out with something competetive and it drove the prices down. So if you think that no competition = lower prices you clearly dont know much about the buisness world.

[themaniac]

The difference being Nvidia wouldn't buy a company that's already under water and would start with the IP, finances, and brand recognition to fight Intel on even footing. Perhaps in the very long run Nvidia would lose and wither, but by that point we'll have a better alternative to ARM come along which could better compete with x86, not to mention new materials for much higher clocks and performance such as graphene.

yeah, i'm fine as neither of them gets anything amd

[patrickjp93]

Remember the Titan X? The overpriced shit from Nvidia? Then AMD came out with something competetive and it drove the prices down. So if you think that no competition = lower prices you clearly dont know much about the buisness world.

Titan Z, and its price would have dropped anyway when it hit the market and demand was too soft. Competition is one small variable used in product pricing, and my solution includes competition, so I don't see why you complain.

Nvidia will continue to price where marginal profit = marginal cost as best they can predict it, and that will include market segmentation, something AMD uses as well. Is it wrong for Nvidia to charge a premium for its very best products? No. Whether or not consumers buy is the only variable that matters to Nvidia, and the status of the competition is a small consideration in that pricing plan.

[Eroda]

i mean if IBM wanted to be assholes they could just Buy AMD also

[patrickjp93]

yeah, i'm fine as neither of them gets anything amd

Why would you want neither to get anything from AMD? Who else do you intend to get it? Samsung won't be allowed by the U.S. government due to national security and economic concerns around x86_64's ownership. Oracle, IBM, and Apple are not consumer-facing companies that would jump into either consumer CPUs or GPUs. Qualcomm doesn't have nearly the engineering expertise. Nor does Mediatek. VIA is already useless too. Give the IP to the companies that will use it and generate competition.

[HalGameGuru]

Why would you want neither to get anything from AMD? Who else do you intend to get it? Samsung won't be allowed by the U.S. government due to national security and economic concerns around x86_64's ownership. Oracle, IBM, and Apple are not consumer-facing companies that would jump into either consumer CPUs or GPUs. Qualcomm doesn't have nearly the engineering expertise. Nor does Mediatek. VIA is already useless too. Give the IP to the companies that will use it and generate competition.

With how Samsung is structured, depending on the avenue by which the transfer occurs I think they could get the go ahead for an AMD acquisition, but I don't think they'd try, not before someone else with an easier way to make it happen did.

 

I agree on the non-consumer facing companies probably bowing out of the running, but I think you may discount Qualcomm for the wrong reason, MediaTek is another foreign corp, albeit in a nation with more closely aligned governance, VIA would be in the same boat as MediaTek.

 

I think Apple would consider it if only for IP Trolling and a massive bang for the buck investment opportunity with the cash reserves they have and the IP clout it would give them.

[themaniac]

Why would you want neither to get anything from AMD? Who else do you intend to get it? Samsung won't be allowed by the U.S. government due to national security and economic concerns around x86_64's ownership. Oracle, IBM, and Apple are not consumer-facing companies that would jump into either consumer CPUs or GPUs. Qualcomm doesn't have nearly the engineering expertise. Nor does Mediatek. VIA is already useless too. Give the IP to the companies that will use it and generate competition.

i'm fine as long as neither intel nor nvidia get anything amd, as long as they dont im fine

[patrickjp93]

With how Samsung is structured, depending on the avenue by which the transfer occurs I think they could get the go ahead for an AMD acquisition, but I don't think they'd try, not before someone else with an easier way to make it happen did.

 

I agree on the non-consumer facing companies probably bowing out of the running, but I think you may discount Qualcomm for the wrong reason, MediaTek is another foreign corp, albeit in a nation with more closely aligned governance, VIA would be in the same boat as MediaTek.

 

I think Apple would consider it if only for IP Trolling and a massive bang for the buck investment opportunity with the cash reserves they have and the IP clout it would give them.

Qualcomm makes routers, network switches, and phone SOCs from basic building blocks from vanilla ARM. The last time they did a custom architecture, it didn't last all that long. Qualcomm doesn't have the expertise needed to fight Intel in the desktop and server arenas imHo.

[Prysin]

Qualcomm makes routers, network switches, and phone SOCs from basic building blocks from vanilla ARM. The last time they did a custom architecture, it didn't last all that long. Qualcomm doesn't have the expertise needed to fight Intel in the desktop and server arenas imHo.

not to mention there the a mountain of difference between a CPU using under 10w and a CPU using over 80w..... Just the complexity from an electrical and thermal POV is quite massive.

[patrickjp93]

not to mention there the a mountain of difference between a CPU using under 10w and a CPU using over 80w..... Just the complexity from an electrical and thermal POV is quite massive.

Did you just agree with me?...

[Prysin]

Did you just agree with me?...

maybe

[Eroda]

Did you just agree with me?...

 

maybe hes high!