Why do SandForce SSD controllers have a bad reputation?

[Askew]

I've been reading comparisons of the Samsung 840 EVO to the Intel 530 (and several other drives) and I'm seeing quite a lot of flak levied at Intel's use of a SandForce controller in the drives.

 

The people moaning about it don't elaborate very well, does anyone know the reason? What is it that those controllers do wrong as opposed to the controller in the 840 EVO for example?

 

The Intel 530 uses a SandForce SF-2200 controller.

[Syntaxvgm]

They used to blow reliability wise, but that has improved. 

Consistency of speeds as well I believe, Ima tag this guy

@hojnikb

I bet he would have something to add.

[Freaky_spider]

its not like sandforce controllers are bad, its just that samsung makes their own controller which are better for reliability, 

 

if you want to know the difference, its something to do with that the samsung has 3-core controllers, better firmware, better clone software, faster (i think)

 

im not a SSD expert tho, thats what i recall what makes the samsung 'better'

[dragoon20005]

the controller from Samsung are designed in house and so is the firmware

 

quality control and consistency is what makes Samsung SSDs really good but commands a high price 

[Askew]

its not like sandforce controllers are bad, its just that samsung makes their own controller which are better for reliability, 

 

if you want to know the difference, its something to do with that the samsung has 3-core controllers, better firmware, better clone software, faster (i think)

 

im not a SSD expert tho, thats what i recall what makes the samsung 'better'

 

So far I'm seeing as if the tradeoff is that Samsung uses TLC NAND which has less durability than the MLC NAND that is used in the Intel drive, so with the EVO you get a superior controller but less longevity on the memory.

[dragoon20005]

So far I'm seeing as if the tradeoff is that Samsung uses TLC NAND which has less durability than the MLC NAND that is used in the Intel drive, so with the EVO you get a superior controller but less longevity on the memory.

well that why you have the 850 Pro

 

they got the drives for different market

[Askew]

the controller from Samsung are designed in house and so is the firmware

 

quality control and consistency is what makes Samsung SSDs really good but commands a high price 

 

Intel's drives are also designed in house, even the controller on the 530 has custom firmware and is actually Intel branded on the chip itself, also the price of the Intel drive is higher than that of the 840 EVO.

 

Intel offers 5 year warranty and Samsung 3, I am trying to choose between these drives and it is quite difficult due to my over interest in the technicalities between them.

 

I have also heard that Samsung's SSD Magician software leaves something to be desired where as Intel's tools are better.

 

I would like a faster SSD but I do value overall reliability and longevity more, I know there is 840 and even 850 PRO now but in that market sector we are dealing with Intel's 730 drives as competition, I am looking in the lower segment at specifically Intel 530 vs Samsung 840 EVO.

[AMICLG]

There was a bug in 2011 when Intel owned SandForce that caused BSODs and the drive to disconnect and was fixed pretty quickly via a firmware update but most people jumped ship when that happened and people still just hate even though LSI bought them out then Seagate bought that division from LSI.

[Askew]

There was a bug in 2011 when Intel owned SandForce that caused BSODs and the drive disconnecting and was fixed pretty quickly via a firmware update but most people jumped ship when that happened and people still just hate even though LSI owns SandForce now.

 

So you think that it may be a bad reputation that is perhaps undeserved now?

[Foxxer]

They blow up? What? 

[AMICLG]

So you think that it may be a bad reputation that is perhaps undeserved now?

Pretty much and AFAIK all Kingston drives use SandForce controllers and some drives like the HyperX 3K have a chip that I'm pretty sure is made by SandForce that compresses data as it's written then decompresses it when it's read making them faster to compete with Samsung's binned in house only Nand which isn't that much faster so why people still hate on SandForce is unclear when they're almost as good as Samsung's Controllers but at a lower price.

[hojnikb]

Intel's drives are also designed in house, even the controller on the 530 has custom firmware and is actually Intel branded on the chip itself, also the price of the Intel drive is higher than that of the 840 EVO.

 

Intel offers 5 year warranty and Samsung 3, I am trying to choose between these drives and it is quite difficult due to my over interest in the technicalities between them.

 

I have also heard that Samsung's SSD Magician software leaves something to be desired where as Intel's tools are better.

 

I would like a faster SSD but I do value overall reliability and longevity more, I know there is 840 and even 850 PRO now but in that market sector we are dealing with Intel's 730 drives as competition, I am looking in the lower segment at specifically Intel 530 vs Samsung 840 EVO.

 

No it doesnt have any custom firemware at all (that was total bullshit from intels side that was confirmed not to be true).  Firmware is mostly stock sandforce (there are some tweaks specific to intel) controller itself is identical to other drives.

[hojnikb]

There was a bug in 2011 when Intel owned SandForce that caused BSODs and the drive to disconnect and was fixed pretty quickly via a firmware update but most people jumped ship when that happened and people still just hate even though LSI bought them out then Seagate bought that division from LSI.

 

That was actually a hardware issue (power logic was designed my monkies) that was patched via firmware update. It's still there, only less frequent (most people dont get them now).

[Wiff]

the controller from Samsung are designed in house and so is the firmware

 

quality control and consistency is what makes Samsung SSDs really good but commands a high price

they got cheaper now (cheaper than c. mx100), and the price of the 840 evo/pro will get down a bit too cuz of the 850series

[hojnikb]

So you think that it may be a bad reputation that is perhaps undeserved now?

 

In deserved allright. Although bsods are mostly fixed now (i'm not sure if latest stepping fixed this in hardware aswell) its still broken by design. Its still slow under incompressible workload and TRIM STILL doesn't work properly.

 

So yeah, sandforce 2nd gen is no good.

[hojnikb]

they got cheaper now (cheaper than c. mx100), and the price of the 840 evo/pro will get down a bit too cuz of the 850series

MX100 is still a better buy, because its usually only a tad more expensive, but its faster and waaay more reliable.

[Syntaxvgm]

MX100 is still a better buy, because its usually only a tad more expensive, but its faster and waaay more reliable.

I knew you could really contribute to this.

[Wiff]

MX100 is still a better buy, because its usually only a tad more expensive, but its faster and waaay more reliable.

lol no, samsung is better in every categorie

[Askew]

In deserved allright. Although bsods are mostly fixed now (i'm not sure if latest stepping fixed this in hardware aswell) its still broken by design. Its still slow under incompressible workload and TRIM STILL doesn't work properly.

 

So yeah, sandforce 2nd gen is no good.

 

So, what about Marvel's controller in the MX100?

 

Am I right in assuming that an MX100 is perhaps a better purchase than an 840 EVO or an Intel 530?

 

I can buy a 256GB MX100 for £12 more than the 120GB Intel 530 I was looking at, and 250GB EVO for about £18 more.

[hojnikb]

lol no, samsung is better in every categorie

And then you wake up with samsungs willy up your a** :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

MX100 is faster (in almost every corner), has better flash (quality MLC instead of TLC garbage), powerloss protection...

[Syntaxvgm]

lol no, samsung is better in every categorie

mx100 is cheaper. But I'd pay for an evo.

[hojnikb]

So, what about Marvel's controller in the MX100?

 

Am I right in assuming that an MX100 is perhaps a better purchase than an 840 EVO or an Intel 530?

 

I can buy a 256GB MX100 for £12 more than the 120GB Intel 530 I was looking at, and 250GB EVO for about £18 more.

 

Marvell is a proven controller (sandisk and plextor are using the same silicon in their highend drives for example).

 

MX100 256GB is the best option hands down, especially if its the cheapest one.

[Syntaxvgm]

Marvell is a proven controller (sandisk and plextor are using the same silicon in their highend drives for example).

 

MX100 256GB is the best option hands down, especially if its the cheapest one.

A MX100 is much cheaper than an evo but if I'm not mistaken somewhat slower?

[hojnikb]

A MX100 is much cheaper than an evo but if I'm not mistaken somewhat slower?

No its not slower, its actually faster.

 

Don't get fooled by inflated numbers caused by turbowrite

[Askew]

Marvell is a proven controller (sandisk and plextor are using the same silicon in their highend drives for example).

 

MX100 256GB is the best option hands down, especially if its the cheapest one.

 

OK thank you for your replies, I'm happy that the MX100 is a decent drive, the only problem I have now is that after release the 256GB model (the one I want) went straight to no1 seller at my retailer and is now out of stock.