Intel 9900K Reviews

[TahoeDust]

Just now, Deli said:

It takes Intel 5 years to improve single core performance by 20%. Great job, Intel.

What's really sad is even with all that stagnation, AMD still can't come within 25%.  My CPU does 227 in cinebench single core under an AIO.  Is anyone's AMD chips even hitting 180 without LN2?

[Deli]

4 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

What's really sad is even with all that stagnation, AMD still can't come within 25%.  My CPU does 227 in cinebench single core under an AIO.  Is anyone's AMD chips even hitting 180 without LN2?

Plenty of 2700x can do 180 Cinebench with AIO. Have you been living under a rock?

 

You have been saying the 9900k does 5.2GHz on air, and 5.4GHz on water. Could you show me?

[TahoeDust]

4 minutes ago, Deli said:

Plenty of 2700x can do 180 Cinebench with AIO. Have you been living under a rock?

Oh you're right.  Sorry, what is the highest?  Around 185ish?  Sorry, only ~23% behind.  

 

There are lots of good arguments for Ryzen.  It's single core performance is not one of them.

[Deli]

1 minute ago, TahoeDust said:

Oh you're right.  Sorry, what is the highest?  Around 185ish?  Sorry, only ~23% behind.  

 

There are lots of good arguments for Ryzen.  It's single core performance is not one of them.

Sure, your CPU can do 23% faster single core, while running at 100C. Good for heating up your room in the winter.

 

You forget to show me your 5.4GHz 9900k on water.

[Phentos]

Yea there is a reason why I sold my 1700. The single-thread performance left so much to be desired, especially since my 1700 was not a very good overclocker.

 

It bottlenecked by 1080TI pretty noticeably and didn't perform all that much better in Premiere Pro vs my old 2600K OC'ed to 4.75Ghz.

[TahoeDust]

Just now, Deli said:

Sure, your CPU can do 23% faster single core, while running at 100C. Good for heating up your room in the winter.

 

You forget to show me your 5.4GHz 9900k on water.

I am not sure what you would like me to say or what argument you are trying to win.

[D13H4RD]

3 hours ago, TahoeDust said:

There are lots of good arguments for Ryzen.  It's single core performance is not one of them.

It's due to the low clockspeed. 

 

Ryzen doesn't like clocking past 4.2 whilst Coffee Lake has been seen at 5+GHz.

 

The IPC difference between the 2 actually isn't all that much. But Zen isn't very good at clocking very high. It's one of those things Zen 2 has to improve on as despite being right at the limit of the efficiency curve stock, there's still some room to push past 5+GHz on the 9900K, even though you probably need a very solid cooling solution. 

[jagdtigger]

9 hours ago, TahoeDust said:

The 4670k is 5 years old.  If you are happy buying a processor in 2018 that has 2013 single core performance, have at it boss.

The only advantage today intel has is only clock speed..... BTW this 5 year old geezer is still plenty fast enough for gaming.

 

/EDIT

Plus that marginal gain in performance does not justify paying double the price of Ryzer...

Edited October 23, 2018 by jagdtigger

[Taf the Ghost]

4 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

It's due to the low clockspeed. 

 

Ryzen doesn't like clocking past 4.2 whilst Coffee Lake has been seen at 5+GHz.

 

The IPC difference between the 2 actually isn't all that much. But Zen isn't very good at clocking very high. It's one of those things Zen 2 has to improve on as despite being right at the limit of the efficiency curve stock, there's still some room to push past 5+GHz on the 9900K, even though you probably need a very solid cooling solution. 

Zen can clock high; it's the GloFo 14nm node that doesn't. The 5 Ghz Zen leaks were real, but that was due to AMD taping out Zen at TSMC as well. Turns out AMD has been hedging against GloFo's production problems for a while.

[Curufinwe_wins]

16 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Zen can clock high; it's the GloFo 14nm node that doesn't. The 5 Ghz Zen leaks were real, but that was due to AMD taping out Zen at TSMC as well. Turns out AMD has been hedging against GloFo's production problems for a while.

sauce? Actually interested btw.

 

Also Zen+ is still 5-15% behind clock for clock, and that is without AVX loading (which actually does increase performance throughput. Take a well optimized video encoder, disable AVX and speed dramatically decreases, even though people like to harp on AVX as if it's a bad thing.)

 

http://x265.org/x265-receives-significant-boost-intel-xeon-scalable-processor-family/

 

ANYHOW! I would love to see Zen reach those clocks, and since AMD claims to be targeting 15% ipc improvement Zen to Zen2, that should be enough to get margin of error clock for clock. Exciting days upcoming for cpus!

[D13H4RD]

33 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Zen can clock high; it's the GloFo 14nm node that doesn't. The 5 Ghz Zen leaks were real, but that was due to AMD taping out Zen at TSMC as well. Turns out AMD has been hedging against GloFo's production problems for a while.

Interesting. Gonna be curious to see Zen 2 on TSMC 7nm

[Taf the Ghost]

15 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

sauce? Actually interested btw.

 

Also Zen+ is still 5-15% behind clock for clock, and that is without AVX loading (which actually does increase performance throughput. Take a well optimized video encoder, disable AVX and speed dramatically decreases, even though people like to harp on AVX as if it's a bad thing.)

 

http://x265.org/x265-receives-significant-boost-intel-xeon-scalable-processor-family/

 

ANYHOW! I would love to see Zen reach those clocks, and since AMD claims to be targeting 15% ipc improvement Zen to Zen2, that should be enough to get margin of error clock for clock. Exciting days upcoming for cpus!

The original 5 Ghz leak was from Canard PC. However, after GloFo dropped 7nm, there was a bunch of chatter about AMD's dual sourcing strategy. 22/20nm had fallen through from GloFo, so we only just recently got the more firm rumors that there was other silicon that did exist. Given the AMD-GloFo business relationship, AMD would have lost money going to TSMC for Zen. AMD reworked that deal, again, before 7nm, which is why those Vega on 7nm at TSMC cards will launch soon. 

 

As for the IPC differences, we're really talking "functional" here. Intel's main advantage is in I/O and the AVX2 optimized workloads. So it's wholly doable for AMD to completely close the gap if not get beyond Intel in some workloads. That'll be fascinating to see, if it happens.

 

Related to this, I'm of the opinion that AMD's R&D section leaks like a sieve, and that it's part of AMD's Marketing strategy.

3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Interesting. Gonna be curious to see Zen 2 on TSMC 7nm

I think the only publicly available product on 7nm is the new Apple SoC, so we really don't know, yet, how the node will perform. We'll know soon enough.

[Curufinwe_wins]

2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

The original 5 Ghz leak was from Canard PC. However, after GloFo dropped 7nm, there was a bunch of chatter about AMD's dual sourcing strategy. 22/20nm had fallen through from GloFo, so we only just recently got the more firm rumors that there was other silicon that did exist. Given the AMD-GloFo business relationship, AMD would have lost money going to TSMC for Zen. AMD reworked that deal, again, before 7nm, which is why those Vega on 7nm at TSMC cards will launch soon. 

 

As for the IPC differences, we're really talking "functional" here. Intel's main advantage is in I/O and the AVX2 optimized workloads. So it's wholly doable for AMD to completely close the gap if not get beyond Intel in some workloads. That'll be fascinating to see, if it happens.

 

Related to this, I'm of the opinion that AMD's R&D section leaks like a sieve, and that it's part of AMD's Marketing strategy.

I think the only publicly available product on 7nm is the new Apple SoC, so we really don't know, yet, how the node will perform. We'll know soon enough.

Oh that randomass single air ES sample? I'm not going to pin high hopes on that source (I was hoping there was something else new)... but hey! It would be nice. I remember the silicon tape-out arrangements, but still I'm less confident in that overall. 

 

Also agreed about the ipc stuff for the most part. Not really a big deal as long as they can pull their AVX2/512 stuff up. AVX just is too good to pass up longterm.

[Settlerteo]

On 10/19/2018 at 5:55 PM, Stefan Payne said:

Intel is back with its interpretation of AMD's Bulldozer Architecture. Now with 220W real consumption under load...

That's the best comment i read here. Te difference is that some of the bulldozer units were actually good, and what is more when we saw FX overheating with stock coolers everyone was taking out their shovels to bury amd but now that intel does even worse we still trying to find a reason to justify buying the new chips.

[GoldenLag]

6 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

room to push past 5+GHz on the 9900K

not much since it is still 14nm ++(+)

 

without going sub ambient you can reach around 5,3 ghz

 

though it will require the following to do so with reasonable temps

1. delidding and liquid metal
2. shaving down the die to remove an extra die worth of silicon stacked on top of the actual CPU. 
3. liquid metal and probably high end aircooler or watercooler (though this is to be expected, its quite fast)

[D13H4RD]

7 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

not much since it is still 14nm ++(+)

 

without going sub ambient you can reach around 5,3 ghz

 

though it will require the following to do so with reasonable temps

1. delidding and liquid metal
2. shaving down the die to remove an extra die worth of silicon stacked on top of the actual CPU. 
3. liquid metal and probably high end aircooler or watercooler (though this is to be expected, its quite fast)

Yeah, it’s not a lot of room

 

They’re likely at the very limit 

[GoldenLag]

Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Yeah, it’s not a lot of room

 

They’re likely at the very limit 

Highly binned 8086k and 8700k stop at 5,3 at silicon lottery.

 

You would need a huge batch of CPUs to get anything running higher than 5,3 at ambient. 

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Oh that randomass single air ES sample? I'm not going to pin high hopes on that source (I was hoping there was something else new)... but hey! It would be nice. I remember the silicon tape-out arrangements, but still I'm less confident in that overall. 

 

Also agreed about the ipc stuff for the most part. Not really a big deal as long as they can pull their AVX2/512 stuff up. AVX just is too good to pass up longterm.

https://twitter.com/BitsAndChipsEng/status/838672209828851712

 

https://twitter.com/BitsAndChipsEng/status/1034385187013046273

 

It's more we now have an explanation for why that leak was probably real, but also why we were never going to see it in production. Zen was Make or Break for AMD, so taping it out twice was worth the money. It happened to turn out that GloFo's Samsung-derived 14nm became one of the highest yielding nodes in silicon manufacturing history.

[jagdtigger]

11 hours ago, TahoeDust said:

Oh you're right.  Sorry, what is the highest?  Around 185ish?  Sorry, only ~23% behind.

Lets throw in some math, lets say ryzen bossts up to 4,2. 4,2/5,3 = ~79%  Well here is your single core advantage....

[mxk]

On 10/19/2018 at 7:21 AM, Valentyn said:

Got curious as to how much it would be to upgrade my system to the 9900K, and even just running it at sock on my D15s cooler.
The Prices to get one to Ireland is a little high...I doubt I can even manage with 16GB RAM; when did it get so expensive!

holy shit I can get quad channel ddr43000 ram here in the usa for $130 usd that is not fair...

[Dylanc1500]

@mxk.

Ya you can get cheap memory, I bought a 16GB kit of DDR4 for $100 at microcenter. However, these sticks aren't cheap. Even in the U.S. the 3200 16GB sets run around $210. While those are 3600 and also have pretty decent timings of CL16-16-16-36. So in reality they are about on par with the cost in the U.S.

 

Dont feel too bad @Valentyn, those cost roughly the same amount here.

[SupremeGOAT]

the dude got 17 extra frames at 1080p for twice the price... well to each his own!