How are USB DACs better than sound cards?

[Craftable124]

I saw logan's video saying sound card aren't worth getting, and to get an external DAC instead, but how exactly? How could a USB DAC be better than a shielded PCIe card? And I don't mean how it sounds, but why a sound card couldn't do the same as a USB DAC, because the only disadvantage I see for sound cards is that they're going to get electronic interference, but shielding helps that. And isn't PCIe superior to USB? If someone could better clear up HOW they're better that'd be great, but don't try and sell me one, I'm not buying an external DAC unless it's for my laptop.

[_ASSASSIN_]

basically less interference from inside your computer components and better quality components

[Oshino Shinobu]

Less interference from other things inside your PC and good DACs won't colour your audio.

[Craftable124]

basically less interference from inside your computer components and better quality components

What I don't understand is the "Better Quality Components" So there is no Sound card with high quality components now?

[Craftable124]

Less interference from other things inside your PC and good DACs won't colour your audio.

So every sound card colors my audio?

[_ASSASSIN_]

What I don't understand is the "Better Quality Components" So there is no Sound card with high quality components now?

STX is decent.. problem is that it uses a Class A design which means it can overpower your components if they aren't the matching impedence that the soundcard advertises.

[MrImnotMLG]

On the cards that have shielding some aren't completely cut off. You can look inside and see some light from the inside essentially making it useless. Think sitting in a lead box with a good sized hole. An atomic bomb goes off and that hole makes the box useless.

[Oshino Shinobu]

So every sound card colors my audio?

Not all of them, but some may add a little base or change something else. DACs are considered better becuase (mostly) they're made with the aim of producing the cleanest and most 'true' audio. If you want louder audio than onboard and maybe like some of the things that a sound card does to the audio, then it can be considered better. It comes down to personal preference. 

[dizmo]

http://www.head-fi.org/t/658413/sound-card-vs-external-dac

 

I found this a good read.

[bowleggedcat]

The "shielding" doesn't do crap on sound cards.

[Canoas]

I saw logan's video saying sound card aren't worth getting, and to get an external DAC instead, but how exactly? How could a USB DAC be better than a shielded PCIe card? And I don't mean how it sounds, but why a sound card couldn't do the same as a USB DAC, because the only disadvantage I see for sound cards is that they're going to get electronic interference, but shielding helps that. And isn't PCIe superior to USB? If someone could better clear up HOW they're better that'd be great, but don't try and sell me one, I'm not buying an external DAC unless it's for my laptop.

The simple answer is that USB DACS aren't better than soundcards. You will indeed need an external DAC/AMP for low impedance headphones, but for high impedance ones a sound card will be as good as an external solution as the noise is not high enough to influence the sound quality. For your common 30-50 ohm headphones, however, your on-board should be more than enough so don't buy an external DAC/AMP or a soundcard if that's what you have.

[ShearMe]

It all comes down to economics, just like with headsets. In a soundcard, you have lots of inputs and outputs - that requires complex circuit routing, switches, etc. With a simple DAC, you get more of your money put into the quality of fewer components.

 

Soundcards could be a good investment, and in fact there are some quite expensive ones for professional use that are really good, but the simple fact is that general consumer grade soundcards aren't really any better than on board. It would be nice to see that trend change, but an audiophile can only hope.

[Canoas]

It all comes down to economics, just like with headsets. In a soundcard, you have lots of inputs and outputs - that requires complex circuit routing, switches, etc. With a simple DAC, you get more of your money put into the quality of fewer components.

 

Soundcards could be a good investment, and in fact there are some quite expensive ones for professional use that are really good, but the simple fact is that general consumer grade soundcards aren't really any better than on board. It would be nice to see that trend change, but an audiophile can only hope.

 

Please explain your claim that the sound quality from a soundcard is worse than the sound quality from an external solution. What differences do you notice?

[ShearMe]

Please explain your claim that the sound quality from a soundcard is worse than the sound quality from an external solution. What differences do you notice?

 

I'm not dancing the psuedo-logical tango of wits with you.

[h264]

I saw logan's video saying sound card aren't worth getting, and to get an external DAC instead, but how exactly? How could a USB DAC be better than a shielded PCIe card? And I don't mean how it sounds, but why a sound card couldn't do the same as a USB DAC, because the only disadvantage I see for sound cards is that they're going to get electronic interference, but shielding helps that. And isn't PCIe superior to USB? If someone could better clear up HOW they're better that'd be great, but don't try and sell me one, I'm not buying an external DAC unless it's for my laptop.

 

Like I say in the FAQ they don't make much sense anymore unless there's something wrong with your onboard.  Everything a soundcard can do, your onboard can do.  We can make hay all day about the differences in design, but the real issue with soundcards is they are redundant in 95% of all cases (the remaining case being as an encoder for multi-channel game audio from a console).  For people wanting the most ACCURATE sound, I also note the damping factor is bad when the output impedance of most soundcards is above 10 Ohms, but that difference is minuscule compared to the effect of a good pair of headphones anyways.

 

Components don't mean anything.  The overall IMPLEMENTATION of those parts is what really counts!

 

USB DACs aren't necceasarily better, but the solution for most professional ACCURATE gear is in fact, USB or FIREWIRE or some other sort of external interface that reduces the chances of interference.  Not to mention makes it much easier to move when necessary.

 

EDIT:  Also class 1 USB devices need no special drivers in windows, mac, and linux.

[bowleggedcat]

Like I say in the FAQ they don't make much sense anymore unless there's something wrong with your onboard.  Everything a soundcard can do, your onboard can do.  We can make hay all day about the differences in design, but the real issue with soundcards is they are redundant in 95% of all cases (the remaining case being as an encoder for multi-channel game audio from a console).  For people wanting the most ACCURATE sound, I also note the damping factor is bad when the output impedance of most soundcards is above 10 Ohms, but that difference is minuscule compared to the effect of a good pair of headphones anyways.

 

Components don't mean anything.  The overall IMPLEMENTATION of those parts is what really counts!

 

Kind of like you can't put racing tires on a 95 oldsmobile and expect to do a 10 minute on the nurburgring.. But if you slap a turbo, put some coil overs on and then put racing tires on, then it's fast.

[h264]

Kind of like you can't put racing tires on a 95 oldsmobile and expect to do a 10 minute on the nurburgring.. But if you slap a turbo, put some coil overs on and then put racing tires on, then it's fast.

 

exactly.  Or put a 500 hp engine in a Miata.

[ShearMe]

exactly.  Or put a 500 hp engine in a Miata.

 

[h264]

Untitled.png

 

Track day bro

[mr moose]

Like I say in the FAQ they don't make much sense anymore unless there's something wrong with your onboard.  Everything a soundcard can do, your onboard can do.  We can make hay all day about the differences in design, but the real issue with soundcards is they are redundant in 95% of all cases (the remaining case being as an encoder for multi-channel game audio from a console).  For people wanting the most ACCURATE sound, I also note the damping factor is bad when the output impedance of most soundcards is above 10 Ohms, but that difference is minuscule compared to the effect of a good pair of headphones anyways.

 

Components don't mean anything.  The overall IMPLEMENTATION of those parts is what really counts!

 

USB DACs aren't necceasarily better, but the solution for most professional ACCURATE gear is in fact, USB or FIREWIRE or some other sort of external interface that reduces the chances of interference.  Not to mention makes it much easier to move when necessary.

 

EDIT:  Also class 1 USB devices need no special drivers in windows, mac, and linux.

Oh look everyone,  It's been answered!!!

[Craftable124]

Like I say in the FAQ they don't make much sense anymore unless there's something wrong with your onboard.  Everything a soundcard can do, your onboard can do.  We can make hay all day about the differences in design, but the real issue with soundcards is they are redundant in 95% of all cases (the remaining case being as an encoder for multi-channel game audio from a console).  For people wanting the most ACCURATE sound, I also note the damping factor is bad when the output impedance of most soundcards is above 10 Ohms, but that difference is minuscule compared to the effect of a good pair of headphones anyways.

 

Components don't mean anything.  The overall IMPLEMENTATION of those parts is what really counts!

 

USB DACs aren't necceasarily better, but the solution for most professional ACCURATE gear is in fact, USB or FIREWIRE or some other sort of external interface that reduces the chances of interference.  Not to mention makes it much easier to move when necessary.

 

EDIT:  Also class 1 USB devices need no special drivers in windows, mac, and linux.

See, this makes sense. Not everyone saying sound cards suck and USB DACs are the best there is.

[mr moose]

See, this makes sense. Not everyone saying sound cards suck and USB DACs are the best there is.

 

A little while ago there were a few of us who would come down hard on sound cards because there was (still is?) a strong cult following, and many people where being advised to spend $70, $150 even $200+ on cards that would give them little to no improvement over $50 and $70 dacs.  It's hard to go against a heard mentality but when you want to help people fulfill their audio desires without spending their life savings on snake oil there is a fine line that is not hard to cross.  A side effect of this line crossing is the number of people who now take the anti sound card stance too far. as has been witnessed just recently in the audio sub forum, even getting a mention on the WAN show.  

 

Essential there is a small core of people who are working hard to educate and maintain an ethical approach to audio advice on these forums.

[OBEYSQUIRREL]

A little while ago there were a few of us who would come down hard on sound cards because there was (still is?) a strong cult following, and many people where being advised to spend $70, $150 even $200+ on cards that would give them little to no improvement over $50 and $70 dacs.  It's hard to go against a heard mentality but when you want to help people fulfill their audio desires without spending their life savings on snake oil there is a fine line that is not hard to cross.  A side effect of this line crossing is the number of people who now take the anti sound card stance too far. as has been witnessed just recently in the audio sub forum, even getting a mention on the WAN show.  

 

Essential there is a small core of people who are working hard to educate and maintain an ethical approach to audio advice on these forums.

 

So if there is little to no improvement between a $70 soundcard and a $70 dac why do you care and why can't you let them be happy with their purchase?

[mr moose]

 

A little while ago there were a few of us who would come down hard on sound cards because there was (still is?) a strong cult following, and many people where being advised to spend $70, $150 even $200+ on cards that would give them little to no improvement over $50 and $70 dacs.  It's hard to go against a heard mentality but when you want to help people fulfill their audio desires without spending their life savings on snake oil there is a fine line that is not hard to cross.  A side effect of this line crossing is the number of people who now take the anti sound card stance too far. as has been witnessed just recently in the audio sub forum, even getting a mention on the WAN show.  

 

Essential there is a small core of people who are working hard to educate and maintain an ethical approach to audio advice on these forums.

 

So if there is little to no improvement between a $70 soundcard and a $70 dac why do you care and why can't you let them be happy with their purchase?

 

what?  you need to give a little context or more information because there are plenty of reasons to care.  As I said, we don't like bad advice that can waste peoples money.

[OBEYSQUIRREL]

what?  you need to give a little context or more information because there are plenty of reasons to care.  As I said, we don't like bad advice that can waste peoples money.

I understand that you don't want someone to waste hundreds on a soundcard that offers no improvement, but if it's cheaper or equal price as a dac+amp for same quality then I don't see a problem?