Lumps and evaporation?

[Woofly94]

I've recently installed a new loop with Mayhems ice dragon nano fluid, this is the first time I've used nano fluid and I'd like some advice, my coolant is constantly evaportating in my loop, I topped it to the brim yesterday and there is now half a reservior but there is no leakage in the system, what's causing this? I've also noticed along the tubes there's lumps and deposits that's like powder along the tubes this is brand new tubing as well, I'm absolutely baffled as to what has caused this any help appreciated

[Dedayog]

You have a leak.  You can't have evaporation without one.  No fluid dripping anywhere behind anything at all?  You may have to tear her apart and find the leak.  

 

Lumps and deposits are due to the liquid medium being over saturated with particulate and it's falling out.  Like too much chocolate powder in your chocolate milk

 

Losing that much liquid that fast is concerning.  There's gotta be a drip somewhere in there, simple evaporation shouldn't cause THAT much liquid loss that fast I can't imagine.  Then again, I'm not an actual scientist so not sure.

[FastRDust]

13 minutes ago, jstudrawa said:

You have a leak.  You can't have evaporation without one.  No fluid dripping anywhere behind anything at all?  You may have to tear her apart and find the leak.  

 

Lumps and deposits are due to the liquid medium being over saturated with particulate and it's falling out.  Like too much chocolate powder in your chocolate milk

 

Losing that much liquid that fast is concerning.  There's gotta be a drip somewhere in there, simple evaporation shouldn't cause THAT much liquid loss that fast I can't imagine.  Then again, I'm not an actual scientist so not sure.

You can find a leak faster if you hold something like toilet paper around the loop to see if it sprays a very fine amount of liquid.

usually its barely visible but  under pressure it can leak allot. then it will come out as a air freshener

 

[Neo-revo]

i would be concerned,   you shouldn't lose that much that quickly to permeability of tubes

 

how certain are you that it was bled fully?   And if your are sure that was not an issue,   you would do well to place paper towel near the fittings to find the culprit.

 

if you fill the system up fully and  still cant find a leak, you may  have just had air bubble some where that finally moved..

 

 

[Woofly94]

14 minutes ago, Neo-revo said:

i would be concerned,   you shouldn't lose that much that quickly to permeability of tubes

 

how certain are you that it was bled fully?   And if your are sure that was not an issue,   you would do well to place paper towel near the fittings to find the culprit.

 

if you fill the system up fully and  still cant find a leak, you may  have just had air bubble some where that finally moved..

 

 

I am 100% sure no leaks, I did install the radiator upside down, could that be a problem where a big air bubble got trapped at the top and since air rises it takes a while for the flow to push down the air?

[Neo-revo]

yes, when fillign a system  you should tilt to aid in moving those bubbles.   any large bubble like that in you rad, is reducing water-contact and thus heat shed.

[Neo-revo]

when you til be sure no ports are open/prone to leak,  but  tilting forward/back/side to side will aid in moving those bubbles.

 

after a few times you will get a feeling how much fluid your loop should hold and  can use that as a gauge for bleeding.  also   air bubble in a rad should sound like a water fountain splashing water.   (you may not notice this noise with fans on)

[Woofly94]

 

1 minute ago, Neo-revo said:

yes, when fillign a system  you should tilt to aid in moving those bubbles.   any large bubble like that in you rad, is reducing water-contact and thus heat shed.

I noticed a big air bubble on the exit hole of the CPU but the water wasn't pushing the air, do you know what this is?

[Neo-revo]

how complicated is your loop?  what sort of ID tube are you using.  

 

i recommend running a second PSU jumped,   so you can easily power just the pump to  circulate water and tilt to bleed your loop of air.

 

because i am a little paranoid, i bleed tilt for 2-4 hours and then run 24-48 hours to make sure i have no slow leaks as well.

 

also you could be circulating air if you d5 has direct access to your res and  can easily suck the bubble back into the loop.

 

as to the specific air bubble a picture might help the community diagnose you loop issues

[Woofly94]

On 10/16/2018 at 3:48 PM, Neo-revo said:

how complicated is your loop?  what sort of ID tube are you using.  

 

i recommend running a second PSU jumped,   so you can easily power just the pump to  circulate water and tilt to bleed your loop of air.

 

because i am a little paranoid, i bleed tilt for 2-4 hours and then run 24-48 hours to make sure i have no slow leaks as well.

 

also you could be circulating air if you d5 has direct access to your res and  can easily suck the bubble back into the loop.

 

as to the specific air bubble a picture might help the community diagnose you loop issues

Apologies for taking so long to get back to you I wanted to try something, so it appears that if I take off the bleed cap then everything is working fine, I've left the bleed cap off for 36 hours now and no coolant has disappeared, this has left me baffled but also might explain the issue, when I took the bleed cap off before the was a lot of air pressure, could it be that air is still finding it's way out of the loop but was trapped? If so why would that cause my coolant to disappear?

[For Science!]

21 minutes ago, Woofly94 said:

-

Loop pressurizing is bad news, the cases I've seen are some reaction with the coolant and metals giving rise to gas, but assuming this is system is the one in your gaming rig, I can't immediately spot any major incompatibilities. Can you just clarify the following components, brand and product name (basically everything):

 

Radiators

Pump

Reservoir

Fittings

GPU block

CPU block

Tubing

Any kind of drainage system

 

For your reference, basically I think the lumps are precipitating nanoparticles and also giving rise to some kind of gas. I know you aren't using aluminium parts, but the phenotype you describe is very similar to when somebody uses pastels with aluminium parts, see below:

 

 

[Woofly94]

3 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Loop pressurizing is bad news, the cases I've seen are some reaction with the coolant and metals giving rise to gas, but assuming this is system is the one in your gaming rig, I can't immediately spot any major incompatibilities. Can you just clarify the following components, brand and product name (basically everything):

 

Radiators

Pump

Reservoir

Fittings

GPU block

CPU block

Tubing

Any kind of drainage system

There is no incompatabilities I know for sure because this is the exact same loop I ran for a year with no issues at all, the ONLY thing that has changed is the fluid I was using, and all of the issues I'm encountering are relating to that liquid (Mayehm Ice Dragon Nano Fluid) apart from this air pressure issue, which could be related to it as well.

[For Science!]

1 minute ago, Woofly94 said:

There is no incompatabilities I know for sure because this is the exact same loop I ran for a year with no issues at all, the ONLY thing that has changed is the fluid I was using, and all of the issues I'm encountering are relating to that liquid (Mayehm Ice Dragon Nano Fluid) apart from this air pressure issue, which could be related to it as well.

What were you running before? and what did you do between the changes.

 

p.s. fluid is part of the loop too, this is exactly the type of incompatibility I am asking about.

[Woofly94]

15 minutes ago, For Science! said:

What were you running before? and what did you do between the changes.

 

p.s. fluid is part of the loop too, this is exactly the type of incompatibility I am asking about.

 

I was using the Mayehm UV Fluid never had issue with, I'm not sure what you're asking what did I do? I didn't do any out of the ordinary for installing a loop.

This is the tubing I used, you think this could not be compatible with Nano fluid?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00TR96UYA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Edit: The whole loop is thermaltake.

edit2: I should also probably mention that my signature below is years out of date.

[For Science!]

9 minutes ago, Woofly94 said:

 

I was using the Mayehm UV Fluid never had issue with, I'm not sure what you're asking what did I do? I didn't do any out of the ordinary for installing a loop.

This is the tubing I used, you think this could not be compatible with Nano fluid?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00TR96UYA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Edit: The whole loop is thermaltake.

Is this the R360 kit? the one with the aluminium radiator

[Woofly94]

2 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Is this the R360 kit? the one with the aluminium radiator

Yes

[For Science!]

Just now, Woofly94 said:

Yes

Well, thats the cause of the issue. Mayhems Pastel (Ice Dragon is the same thing afaik) is simply non-compatible with aluminium parts as mentioned above. You're scraping by with the X1 since there is nothing to really precipitate and it supposedly has some anti-corrosive properties.

 

Opaque fluids are more sensitive, and all of them precipitate on contact with aluminium parts. The best you can do now is to tear down the loop, scrub everything and then return to using X1. Consider replacing the radiator to a brass/copper radiator before switching to opaque fluids next time.

[Woofly94]

2 minutes ago, For Science! said:

Well, thats the cause of the issue. Mayhems Pastel (Ice Dragon is the same thing afaik) is simply non-compatible with aluminium parts as mentioned above. You're scraping by with the X1 since there is nothing to really precipitate and it supposedly has some anti-corrosive properties.

 

Opaque fluids are more sensitive, and all of them precipitate on contact with aluminium parts. The best you can do now is to tear down the loop, scrub everything and then return to using X1. Consider replacing the radiator to a brass/copper radiator before switching to opaque fluids next time.

Sorry the radiator is made of Zinc not aluminium, I've never had an issue with this loop with Mayhems UV before.

[For Science!]

4 minutes ago, Woofly94 said:

Sorry the radiator is made of Zinc not aluminium, I've never had an issue with this loop with Mayhems UV before.

sacrificial layer of zinc (which to my understanding, only makes it worse), the aluminium is still there. Mayhems UV is a totally different product, and does not translate anything to the behaviour of opaque fluids. You honestly don't have to go very far to find all the evidence, just google "thermaltake radiator mayhems" add "pastel" for extra effect.

 

https://forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/mayhems-with-thermaltake-dont-do-it.1188197/

 

[Woofly94]

2 minutes ago, For Science! said:

sacrificial layer of zinc, the aluminium is still there. Mayhems UV is a totally different product, and does not translate anything to the behaviour of opaque fluids. You honestly don't have to go very far to find all the evidence, just google "thermaltake radiator mayhems" add "pastel" for extra effect.

 

https://forums.overclockers.com.au/threads/mayhems-with-thermaltake-dont-do-it.1188197/

 

The pictures on that thread are exactly how my loop looks even the residue left over when drained, do you think this has caused damage to the rest of my loop? What would the course of action be here?

[For Science!]

1 minute ago, Woofly94 said:

The pictures on that thread are exactly how my loop looks even the residue left over when drained, do you think this has caused damage to the rest of my loop? What would the course of action be here?

Thermaltake aluminium radiators claims another victim....RIP. All jokes aside, your waterbocks are probably rescue-able but in my opinion the tubing and the radiators are not worth saving.

 

Basically your best course of actions, if it were up to me would be the following:

- Drain all fluid, and discard

- Discard all the tubing (beyond saving)

- Discard the radiator (its crappy, and most probably all clogged inside beyond saving)

- Open the CPU and GPU blocks, wash with hot soapy water, then rinse with distilled water

- Clean each fitting throughly in a similar manner

- Buy a new, quality radiator that's actually made of suitable material

- Connect the whole system with fresh tubing

- Run Mayhems Bllitz Kit (part 1 & 2)

- Depending on how the tubing looks like after the blitz, consider replacing all the tubing once more

- Now use whichever coolant (I recommend clear coolants like the X1 or EK-Cryofuel)

[Woofly94]

1 minute ago, For Science! said:

Thermaltake aluminium radiators claims another victim....RIP. All jokes aside, your waterbocks are probably rescue-able but in my opinion the tubing and the radiators are not worth saving.

 

Basically your best course of actions, if it were up to me would be the following:

- Drain all fluid, and discard

- Discard all the tubing (beyond saving)

- Discard the radiator (its crappy, and most probably all clogged inside beyond saving)

- Open the CPU and GPU blocks, wash with hot soapy water, then rinse with distilled water

- Clean each fitting throughly in a similar manner

- Buy a new, quality radiator that's actually made of suitable material

- Connect the whole system with fresh tubing

- Run Mayhems Bllitz Kit (part 1 & 2)

- Depending on how the tubing looks like after the blitz, consider replacing all the tubing once more

- Now use whichever coolant (I recommend clear coolants like the X1 or EK-Cryofuel)

The tubing is only 4 days old, you really think it's that bad?

Any recommendations for the radiator?

Is blitzing really neccesary? I could just run distilled water through the loop?

 

[For Science!]

9 minutes ago, Woofly94 said:

The tubing is only 4 days old, you really think it's that bad?

Any recommendations for the radiator?

Is blitzing really neccesary? I could just run distilled water through the loop?

 

If you're running thick radiators, either EKWB PE/XE or HWLabs GTR/GTX series are good. If you're running slim radiators (30 mm), I would go for HWLabs only (Nemesis GTS). 

 

As I have never personally dealt with this scenario, I only put down what I would do if I were in your shoes, but ultimately the decision to keep something or not is up to you. Tubing is cheap and I wouldn't really want any residue to follow through. If you re-use the tubing, I would definitely blitz, if you don't then it would depend on how clean the waterblocks look after the deep clean.

[Neo-revo]

Glad For Science could get you figured out.

 

i personally just stay away from anything aluminum, plated coated anodized or otherwise  it has no place with water in a custom loop,  manufactures like it cause it cheap, like the garbage they hope you will buy before you come back for more, or their copper line...  i am sure under the right conditions they can work fine, but  again this is custom cooling i am talking about, not AIO's    if all the parts i own could easily have aluminum counterparts i might consider them  but as that is, this is not the case, and i cant expect everyone to jump on board.