Do I need pure sine wave UPS for my active PCF power supply?

[ImInHugeTrouble]

I have platinum and titanium rated power supplies, one is seasonic and one is corsair. I have read somewhere that a pure sine wave UPS are much better than a normal UPS. But they are 5 time more expensive.

 

Is this true? 

 

Thank you.

[Electronics Wizardy]

Do you need it? No, every psu I have used works fine on a non sine wave ups.

 

Should you get it? yes. Its better for the psu. Is it worth it? depends on how often you use the ups(how often the power goes out) and if you want to use your pc on the ups or just shut it down.

[KarathKasun]

Do you want the absolute best?  If so, a pure sine UPS that decouples the input from the output is what you want.

[ImInHugeTrouble]

I just need to save my work before shutting it down.

 

Someone also told me that I shouldn't use a none-pure sine wave on my active-PFC power supplies because when power goes out it will damage my pc components.

[ImInHugeTrouble]

2 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

Do you want the absolute best?  If so, a pure sine UPS that decouples the input from the output is what you want.

I only have 500-700 bucks for my 2 workstations. So yes absolute best in this budget.

[Enderman]

It won't cause damage, but the power supply will shut off when the UPS switches to simulated sine wave.

This means your equipment turns off, making a UPS basically useless.

 

So yeah you should definitely get a pure sine wave UPS.

They are better all around and in general don't cost more.

 

I would recommend one from cyberpower, they have very good ones.

[KarathKasun]

Get any unit with enough VA to run your systems for 5-15m, preferably units with a damage guarantee.

[Electronics Wizardy]

1 minute ago, ImInHugeTrouble said:

I just need to save my work before shutting it down.

 

Someone also told me that I shouldn't use a none-pure sine wave on my active-PFC power supplies because when power goes out it will damage my pc components.

It may hurt the psu, but I have never had the problem before personally(but a small sample size). Its not good for the psu, but its very unlikely to instantly kill it.

 

how many watts do you need?

 

How about this? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00429N192/ref=twister_B007UL3ZEK?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

 

Should be enough for most PC + monitor setups, 150 usd.

[KarathKasun]

Just now, Enderman said:

It won't cause damage, but the power supply will shut off when the UPS switches to simulated sine wave.

This means your equipment turns off, making a UPS basically useless.

 

So yeah you should definitely get a pure sine wave UPS.

They are better all around and in general don't cost more.

 

I would recommend one from cyberpower, they have very good ones.

This is not true.  Non-sine UPS units will not turn off the PC if the PSU's holdup time is in spec.

[ImInHugeTrouble]

I have seasonic titanium 850w and corsair hx750i, so 1600watts will do right?

[Enderman]

Just now, KarathKasun said:

This is not true.  Non-sine UPS units will not turn off the PC if the PSU's holdup time is in spec.

https://www.google.ca/search?ei=uR2nW9vmEZLH_wTy_IuwCw&q=active-PFC+power+supply+with+simulated+sine+wave&oq=active-PFC+power+supply+with+simulated+sine+wave&gs_l=psy-ab.3...5528.10272.0.10331.27.26.0.0.0.0.139.1915.22j4.26.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.21.1528...0i22i30k1j0i22i10i30k1j35i39k1j33i22i29i30k1j33i21k1j33i160k1.0.gHmwLTIj5O8

 

And yes I have ran across people on this forum that cheaped out on a UPS instead of getting a pure sinewave one and every time power went out their computer would turn off.

 

There is really no reason to buy a simulated sine wave UPS, it's just old technology.

It is 2018 and you can get a great pure sine wave UPS for one or two hundred bucks that has very high efficiency and will work with any device without issue.

[W-L]

3 minutes ago, ImInHugeTrouble said:

I just need to save my work before shutting it down.

 

Someone also told me that I shouldn't use a none-pure sine wave on my active-PFC power supplies because when power goes out it will damage my pc components.

It won't damage it, I've used stepped simulated units for a long time without issue but there are some cases of PSU's sensitive or the non-sinewave unit is extremely poor it may think it's receiving bad power and shut off to protect itself. The cyberpower PFC units are very good options. 

 

1 minute ago, KarathKasun said:

This is not true.  Non-sine UPS units will not turn off the PC if the PSU's holdup time is in spec.

It's rare but does happen from time to time even if it's in spec some PSU's that are sensitive can fail to stay on with a UPS. 

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, ImInHugeTrouble said:

I have seasonic titanium 850w and corsair hx750i, so 1600watts will do right?

Neither of those computers will ever be using 100% of their power supplies' capacity.

A UPS with 1000W output would be enough.

If you have more money to spend then get one with larger capacity so you can have longer runtime.

[Electronics Wizardy]

9 minutes ago, ImInHugeTrouble said:

I have seasonic titanium 850w and corsair hx750i, so 1600watts will do right?

Does your system actually use that much power?

 

Is this one ups for both systems? Id probalby 2 smaller ones?

How about monitors and other devices?

[KarathKasun]

10 minutes ago, W-L said:

It's rare but does happen from time to time even if it's in spec some PSU's that are sensitive can fail to stay on with a UPS. 

Ive not had this issue with any quality setup, in ~20 years.

 

Perhaps with a cheap UPS and a cheap PSU.  The holdup spec is BECAUSE of the switchover time of switch-out style UPS units, that is literally the only reason that holdup is part of the ATX spec.

[ImInHugeTrouble]

I think I will buy a 1500w UPS for both systems, because the shipping and handling is very expensive for such heavy UPS. Buying 2 smaller ones will be much more expensive.

[W-L]

1 minute ago, ImInHugeTrouble said:

I think I will buy a 1500w UPS for both systems, because the shipping and handling is very expensive for such heavy UPS. Buying 2 smaller ones will be much more expensive.

Ideally I would recommend individual units for each system since you can configure them to communicate with the UPS to shutdown your system if there is an extended power outage.

[ImInHugeTrouble]

Thanks, which model would you recommend for 750 and 850w? And why are there so many people using Cyber Power, is this brand even better than APC?

[W-L]

5 minutes ago, ImInHugeTrouble said:

Thanks, which model would you recommend for 750 and 850w? And why are there so many people using Cyber Power, is this brand even better than APC?

It solely depends on the spec of your components and what you will be running with the UPS not the PSU. As for brand both APC and Cyberpower are good brands, some other such as Eaton, and Tripplite are also excellent options.

[KarathKasun]

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102134&ignorebbr=1

 

Over-specified pure sine units.

 

11m run-time at 450w.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

Cyberpower is more popular because you get more bang for your buck from Cyberpower units. I've had excellent luck with Cyberpower.

 

Even if your PSU would run on a simulated sine wave, it will be stressed by it which will lead to premature failure.

 

W-L made an excellent suggestion about buying a UPS for each computer. A high end UPS will allow you to connect it to a computer via USB so, if there is a power failure while the computer is running unattended, after a user determined amount of time, the UPS will tell the computer to go into hibernation, effectively saving your work. You can do this with only one computer per UPS unless you go for one of the really expensie industrial units.

 

Soneting else to consider when choosing one or more UPSes, the larger the UPS, the less the batteries will be drawn down before the computer is turned off. Batteries have to be recharged and that takes several hours. If you have another outage before the batteries have haad time to be recharged sufficiently, you will lose work. Also, the further down you drain your batteries, the sooner they will need replacing.

 

A UPS has two ratings to consider: the input power draw (the power drawn from the wall outlet), usually exprssed in VA (roughly the equivalent of wattage) and the output power draw, usualy exprssed in watts. The output will be considerably less than the input. The CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD KarathKasun suggested (an excellent UPS, btw; I'm running one right now) will draw up to 1500VA (for your purposes, just consider that to be 1500 watts; I'll spare you the technical stuff since it doesn't really matter all that much for this) from the wall socket but the output is only up to 900 watts.

 

My X79 desktop rig plus three 24" monitors average about a 375w draw which gave me an average of 20 minutes run time when new. I set mine to hibernate the computer 1 minute after an outage (if I was present at the start of the outage and needed a little longer to actually save my work, I could easily bypass that setting). After almost three years, my batteries are still going strong since they do not get drawn down very much. When my desktop died a few months ago (I'm still building a replacement; old age sucks), I was still getting an average of 18 minutes run time. Most people get only a year or so of life from their batteries because they choose too small a UPS and draw down the batteries too much during an outage.

 

It's cheaper in the long run to run the largest pure sinewave UPS you can afford and the circuit you plug it into can handle the load. If you used two UPSes to power your two computers, you would either need to make sure each one is connected to different house circuits (recommended) or, if connected to the same 15A circuit, sized so the total is no more than 1500w (a 15A 120v circuit is 1800 watts but you shouldn't load a circuit more than 80-85% of its rated amperage (keep in mind that you may have other loads on the same circuit). My main UPS is running on a dedicated 20A circuit I ran for a 2200VA Cyberpower UPS I used to have (I replaced it rather than the battteries when they finally wore out because the darned thing was heavy and I'm old and handicapped).

[Lady Fitzgerald]

18 minutes ago, CUDAcores89 said:

SO this post 

Me personally i'm using a cyberpower simulated sine wave UPS I got from the junkyeard for $5. I replaced the battery pack with a custom made lifepo4 battery pack (also from the junkyard) that runs my computer for 1/2 an hour instead of the typical 5 minutes. I have personally tested the UPS to work flawlessly with my corsair RM1000X power supply.

 

My other suggestion to OP would be to go out there and actually look for a UPS that someone has thrown out and use that. Many, MANY people do not realize that when a UPS "dies" it's because the SLA batteries in the units are dead, but most people just throw out the entire UPS even if the electronics are still intact. You can just buy new SLA batteries and install them into the "dead" UPS you got for free, then use that.

 

 At the particular junkyard I go to, they actually have an entire container full of junk UPSes that people throw out because the battery died. I've seen units like this that go for over $400 new for as little as $20-$30 from the junkyeard with an 80-90% chance of still working depending on the weight:

 

http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Smart-UPS-XL-24V-Battery-Pack/P-SUA24XLBP

 

90% of the time they still work and were only thrown out due to the UPS being too old or the batteries were dead (they are sold for 50 cents a pound). Don't really worry about trying to find a UPS with modern technology. The UPS that backs up my dads computer is a very old APC UPS I picked up at the junkyard built in 1996. It still works totally fine for backup power. Getting a modern UPS is only relevant if you plan to use the software the UPS comes with.

I do not recommend trying to revive older UPSes unless one really knows what they are doing, which most people will not. It's like replacing the engine in a car with a used one with high mileage on it.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

40 minutes ago, KarathKasun said:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842102134&ignorebbr=1

 

Over-specified pure sine units.

That is actually an excellent UPS. I highly recommend it as long as it will be the only significant load on the circuit it is plugged into.

[Razor Blade]

I personally go for line interactive UPS models that offer AVR. If you have the budget for it, you can find models that offer AVR and pure sign wave. Every UPS I've owned had modified sine wave but I don't plan on running equipment on battery very often. The few times that power had gone out, I've never had an issue. The UPS that runs most of my stuff is a Dell 1920R with a 72V EBM. I don't think it is a pure sign wave UPS either.

[KarathKasun]

Also, simulated sine UPS does not "damage" the power supply, it reduces the efficiency when running on battery.

 

~90% efficient PSU ends up at something like ~70%, which is not a problem unless you are relying on the UPS to do more than blackout protection.