first time gun buying

[dukenukems]

I am looking to buy some guns for maybe some hunting and especially for self protection.I am looking to spend maybe a maximum of around 250$ for each gun.My mom is also looking to get one for protection too so any helpful advice is appreciated.Would also like if it is easily serviced myself like with cleaning and upkeep if i can.

[PlayStation 2]

What country?

Also, there's a thread around here that could really help you out.

 

[Drak3]

$250 isn't that much for a single gun.

[dukenukems]

I live in the united states in arizona.

[wasab]

44 minutes ago, dukenukems said:

I am looking to buy some guns for maybe some hunting and especially for self protection.I am looking to spend maybe a maximum of around 250$ for each gun.My mom is also looking to get one for protection too so any helpful advice is appreciated.Would also like if it is easily serviced myself like with cleaning and upkeep if i can.

Get a BAR(Browning automatic rifle)

It can also functions as a heavy machine gun if used stationary with those tripods. 

 

 

 

[dizmo]

Take a look at the Smith and Wesson SDVE. It's a pretty decent, budget weapon. Don't go for bottom of the barrel guns. You want something a little more reliable than that.

25 minutes ago, wasab said:

Get a BAR(Browning automatic rifle)

It can also functions as a heavy machine gun if used stationary with those tripods. 

 

 

 

Sure, except for the much stricter licensing and the fact that they're about 40x to 80x his budget...

[Cereal5]

Afaik, good handguns start around $400 (Glock, S&W, Beretta, etc)

37 minutes ago, wasab said:

Get a BAR(Browning automatic rifle)

It can also functions as a heavy machine gun if used stationary with those tripods.

Technically it's a bipod. Also, they're effectively banned lol

[Drak3]

7 hours ago, Cereal5 said:

Technically it's a bipod

The BAR can be mounted to a set MG tripod.

8 hours ago, wasab said:

Get a BAR(Browning automatic rifle)

It can also functions as a heavy machine gun if used stationary with those tripods. 

Only if you get an M1918 BAR and not their current BAR 3.

[Guest]

Moss berg 500 is a good shotty. 

The remington 870 quality control has been declining recently. 

Just get a smooth bore & don’t bother with the rifled. If you want a rifled barres, or to shoot slugs, get a rifle. 

 

Some say Mauser is good. Others like mosin Nagants. AR-15s are good but probably not for hunting. 

If you’re hunting small land animals, a 22 is probably what you’ll want. 

For deer, a crossbow isn’t a bad idea but. 

 

As for handguns, you really have to hold some to see what you like. Glock, m&p, Smith & Wesson are all popular but they may not be for you. 

[Drak3]

31 minutes ago, fpo said:

AR-15s are good but probably not for hunting. 

Depends on the chambering.

5.56/.223/.224 is good for varmint and small game

6.5 Grendel/.300 Blackout/6.8 SPC/7.62x39 are good deer hunting options

.450 Bushmaster/.458 SOCOM/ .50 Beowulf are good large game options.

33 minutes ago, fpo said:

Just get a smooth bore & don’t bother with the rifled. If you want a rifled barres, or to shoot slugs, get a rifle. 

Shotgun slugs are cheaper than the last 3 AR15 chamberings I listed, and as powerful if not more so. Some states, Ohio, also have stupid hunting laws where basically only shotguns can be used for hunting.

[Syntaxvgm]

Starter guns- 

You'll want a .22 rifle. Just a must have, cheap ammo and good for small animals. 
 

Get a 12 gauge pump. Like a Remington 870 or a mossburg 500. Benelli good choice to. The power and kick of these are great for first time shooters as they immediately demand respect for the gun, while being fairly safe to operate for first timers. I believe it's wrong to start small or with something easy and soft like an AR15 as it makes first timers overly confident. Your first shot should scare you. Great to keep around the home, simple to operate. 
 

You'll probably want some kind of .30-06 for hunting as a starter. You'll have to check with your local hunting laws for what you can use and you'll need to know what you're getting into before this one. This will also cost you more. Optics and stuff too. Get this last after you know more about hunting. Not really my things, but there's plenty of club etc to help you there. 

Black powder is another good, cheap choice. Muzzle loaders are tedious and a bit dangerous, but a popular choice believe it or not. 

More expensive down the line- an ar15 or a mini 14 is a good choice as .223 is cheaper to shoot and very soft/nice. .30-06 is about a dollar a bullet, where you'll spend much less for practice with a .223. 

 

Pistols-

A good idea because 9mm is cheap, but not as your first gun. Getting a carry license is easy in a lot of areas, but you need to truly be prepared for the responsibility of carrying, and know your laws! If you don't think you should carry, it's ok. Don't be ashamed. 

You need to train more with these, they are much easier to shoot yourself with and by carrying them you will handle them daily. Unlinke a rifle that oyu hold with 2 hands, they are easy to point at yourself or something else! It's not just that rifles are harder to point at yourself, it's that holding a pistol it's easy to forget you're holding it and keep it a safe direction. When you are using 2 hands to hold something, you consciously think about where you're pointing it a bit easier. 

For cheap - an LC9s can be had for less than 300, and there's a few other cheap options there for compact 9mm. Full size for 250$ an EAA witness is a solid cz75 clone. Personally, I'd wait, get familiar with shooting and safety, go for a glock 15 for your first full size and go from there. 
The big scawwy ar15 is much less dangerous to the own than a pistol. 

 

Get a membership at your local shooting range. 

 

Remember- the real cost of gun ownership is not the gun but the cost to shoot. 

 

[BuckGup]

Get a taurus judge for personal protection

[Drak3]

5 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

I believe it's wrong to start small or with something easy and soft like an AR15 as it makes first timers overly confident

You just recommended a .22 in your first sentence. The default chambering of an AR15 is a .22.

6 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Your first shot should scare you.

I highly disagree.

6 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Great to keep around the home, simple to operate. 

Like an AR-15.

[Syntaxvgm]

11 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

You just recommended a .22 in your first sentence. The default chambering of an AR15 is a .22.

The default cambering of an ar15 is a .223/556 nato. 22 is rimfire, .223 is centerfire. 

This is what 22 long looks like 

This is .223

What the fuck. Do you really think an ar15 is a .22 by default? The only reason you might think that is some replicas of guns are .22 as they are cheap to make. 

Anyone who knows jack shit about guns knows this. thats literally the most common semi auto rifle. 

wow

11 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

 

I highly disagree.

 

Most mistakes by news shooters I see are when someone starts with an ar15 or a 22. 

Bolts or pumps are loud and proud, yet safer as once the shot has been fired, they wont fire again. New shooters often shoot then turn, pointing the gun somewhere else. (good idea to stand directly to their left to prevent this). I think the first gun needs to be a pump or bolt while making you respect that they are dangerous by making you uncomfortable. My opinion, not everyone agrees. I think they are plenty of valid reasons that people dont do this, and I accept them, just not from anyone who tries to tell me an ar15 is chambered in 22. I've met instructors who fall on both sides of the argument

lol

you're not exactly a certified instructor even if you have shot before. 

11 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

You just recommended a .22 in your first sentence. The default chambering of an AR15 is a .22.

I highly disagree.

Like an AR-15.

.223 penetrates, and is not good in all situations. A pump is easier to operate, easy to load, and cheaper if it's stolen during a break in. This is the one you would not have in a safe. 
For safety reasons alone many people in the city stick to shotguns or hollowpoint pistols. 

[Drak3]

6 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

The default cambering of an ar15 is a .223/556 nato

What the fuck. Do you really think an ar15 is a .22 by default? The only reason you might think that is some replicas of guns are .22 as they are cheap to make. 

Anyone who knows jack shit about guns knows this. thats literally the most common semi auto rifle. 

wow

.223 Remington/5.56 NATO is a .22 caliber bullet.

 

By saying .22, without any further qualification, it can be:

.22 Short

.22 Long

.22 Long Rifle

.22 Hornet

.22 Magnum

.223 Remington

.224 Valkyrie

6 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

223 penetrates, and is not good in all situations

.223 penetration is a mixed bag. In a home, 12Ga. is a worse option because unlike .223, buckshot doesn't tumble once hitting material, so it doesn't slow down as fast.

6 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

A pump is easier to operate, easy to load

Both of these things are not true.

6 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

and cheaper if it's stolen during a break in

Only if you're buying a cheap pump action. My Mossberg 500 cost more than my Smith and Wesson M&P15.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

 

Shotgun slugs are cheaper than the last 3 AR15 chamberings I listed, and as powerful if not more so. Some states, Ohio, also have stupid hunting laws where basically only shotguns can be used for hunting.

I recall slugs in 12 gauge costing $1 or more a round and the recoil destroying my shoulder. 

 

It he hunts pheasant or other birds, birdshot is fine but might be a mess. 

 

Id think Arizona would be pretty lenient unless I was thinking of Arkansas. 

[Guest]

This thread got real hostile real quick...

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, fpo said:

recall slugs in 12 gauge costing $1 or more a round and the recoil destroying my shoulder.

The cheaper of the slugs I buy are a buck per shot. Cheap Bushmaster is $1.30/shot IN BULK, 458 Socom and Beowulf are $2/shot.

[Syntaxvgm]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

.223 Remington/5.56 NATO is a .22 caliber bullet.

 

By saying .22, without any further qualification, it can be:

.22 Short

.22 Long

.22 Long Rifle

.22 Hornet

.22 Magnum

.223 Remington

.224 Valkyrie

.223 penetration is a mixed bag. In a home, 12Ga. is a worse option because unlike .223, buckshot doesn't tumble once hitting material, so it doesn't slow down as fast.

Both of these things are not true.

Only if you're buying a cheap pump action. My Mossberg 500 cost more than my Smith and Wesson M&P15.

ahahahahahaahahahahahahaahah
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
the only thing they share is diameter of the bullet. They are not remotely similar in any other way.
 Anyone would know by "getting a 22" that I meant a 22 long, as one of the most common guns in existence is a ruger 10/22. Don't go to wikipedia to try to excuse your mistake. You have no idea what you're talking about, get lost. 

 

And btw, by recommending a pump because it's cheap, I mean a cheap pump. Obviously. I've been eyeing and older one that's 1200$. Doesn't mean you cant get one for 175 jeeze. 
This alone is the most ignorant/narrow thing I've ever heard 

 

Quote

.223 penetration is a mixed bag. In a home, 12Ga. is a worse option because unlike .223, buckshot doesn't tumble once hitting material, so it doesn't slow down as fast

I'm not trying to be elitist. If you know so little, your advice is dangerous. 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Anyone would know by "getting a 22" that I meant a 22 long, as one of the most common guns in existence is a ruger 10/22.

The Ruger 10/22 is chambered in .22 Long Rifle. Feeding Long or short in it would likely cause malfunction.

 

2 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

the only thing they share is diameter of the bullet. They are not remotely similar in any other way.

Yes, and bullets are categorized by listing bullet diameter then an individualizing designation. Just giving me half of that, without any aditional context, is meaningless.

4 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

If you know so little, your advice is dangerous. 

Good thing I know more than you think, especially when your advice is outright wrong.

[Syntaxvgm]

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

The Ruger 10/22 is chambered in .22 Long Rifle. Feeding Long or short in it would likely cause malfunction.

 

Yes, and bullets are categorized by listing bullet diameter then an individualizing designation. Just giving me half of that, without any aditional context, is meaningless.

Good thing I know more than you think, especially when your advice is outright wrong.

1, I said long, and long is the common 22, You're correcting nothing. I literally said by 22 people assume 22 long, as its common to see  guns like the 10/22. 
 

Quote

Anyone would know by "getting a 22" that I meant a 22 long, as one of the most common guns in existence is a ruger 10/22.

I mean seriously it's exactly what I said. 

Quote

Just giving me half of that, without any aditional context, is meaningless.

2. I said .223, I clearly didn't mean 22 long, short, or any variation. I mean .223. You know what 223 is, no context needed. 
 

Quote

Good thing I know more than you think, especially when your advice is outright wrong.

3. No. You're the one who siad and ar15 is chambered in 22.  Lol. 
Usually I accept other people's advice and differences in thought, as a lot of these topics are hotly debated and many people have different experiences, but you are either very new to the subject or terribly misinformed. It's ok to be new to the subject, but don't go online and correct people with this kinda crap as someone whos not new

 

2 hours ago, Drak3 said:

You just recommended a .22 in your first sentence. The default chambering of an AR15 is a .22.

 

You just corrected me that I recommended a 22 and not an ar15, and that an a15 is a 22 default so I contradiccted myself. 

 

Wow. Wow man. 

I dont like to argue guns online. i don't like to correct and be elitist. 
But this is exceptional. If left me to really wonder why you'd say that, ever. I think you know better. I actually thought at the time you might have been trolling. 

And the only advice I gave him is advice I repeat from countless people that I trust more on the subject. It's not the only school of though, but common and valid. 

Thing is man, I see you own guns. And the fact that someone calling a .22 a different thing and .223 is odd and contradictory to you concerns me. Have you ever spent any time with any other gun owners? I don't think you dont know these things, maybe you just aren't in tune with convention or talk to people about it?  No one wold ever take the sentence "You just recommended a .22 in your first sentence. The default chambering of an AR15 is a .22." without laughing

I jut dont get it. Looking though your post history you seem like someone I'd trust with gun info, and does socialize with other gun owners. 
And btw 

Quote

223 penetration is a mixed bag. In a home, 12Ga. is a worse option because unlike .223, buckshot doesn't tumble once hitting material, so it doesn't slow down as fast

I'll give you some slack here because ballistics are always hotly debated and I stay out of it. I'm not an expert. I shouldn't have laughed at this, as I don't like arguing ballistics online because half the time it will end with me testing and posting pics because there's no tests online for certain things. I just discounted you wit the 22 ar15 comment, when none of what you said is wrong, and mixed bag is 100% right. Here's a wall of text. 

A lot of people make assumptions and dont understand proper testing when they see penetration vids

There are many variables, but when people talk about shotguns for home, there's obviously many different choices for ammo. 
Most people that have an ar15 in their home are using full metal jacket. Often, people that give consideration to hollow point or something are people's carry pistols but not their rifles. I'd say pretty much everyone I meet uses hollow point on carry ammo (unless the gun doesn't feed it well) but most are using standard fmj .223 for an ar15 in the home. If you live in the country, this is probably the best thing to use around the house with fmj and most people dont have a problem with that
 

Fmj WILL penetrate and much further than you think. Consider my concern ins't who im shooting in the same house, my concern is hitting a neighbor in the city. Not a lot of chance any kind of buckshot will do that, a great chance standard 223 will. 223 is small and fast, and it penetrates. Even steel if it's thin
Buckshot https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-3-the-shotgun-meets-the-box-o-truth/
There are many tests online that show how many sheets of drywall stuff penetrates. 

Many people are surprised to learn buck either doesn't make it as far as they thought or makes it further than they thought. Most people recommend 00 for home defense, and they will penetrate walls in the home but probably not make it far outside (the important part). You are right it does penetrate though. 

Some people believe it or not, use bird shot. Lot of people discourage that, and probably rightfully, since it may not stop someone, but it also will stop after 1 sheet- a empty milk jug will catch some even.

Now even though buck makes it through several layers of sheetrock (more than people assume), the chances of it going through you wall, into someone else in the street or through their wall are generally much lower. 

There are, however, plenty of .223 options that are meant to fragment of course, so I never knock someone who keeps an ar15 in their home with the right ammo. A stray .223 is so much worse than stray buckshot, but with the right ammo and hitting a wall first it's a moot point. Still, to be a stickler, it isn't the tumbling in this case, its fragmentation. The tumbling has more to do with penetration in flesh and other materials and how much damage it does to the person, not sheet rock penetration- it's still very far. What I missed the first time is you are talking about speed, which I guess so but a tumbling .223 does a lot of damage and is still going fast, but after a few piece of sheetrock is indeed slower. FMj will still make it a lot further in terms of leaving the house, I've seen it keep going after 9 or 10 sheets of drywall in some tests. Most tests however are not fmj, but home defense specific ammo. None of what you said was wrong there, and 12 gauge being worse is an opinion at this point
 

Shotguns cheap, are versatile in ammo choices, easy to use for new people, and are reliable for people that don't take care of their guns, so it's common to recommend them. Remember, a lot of people buy a gun and leave it for years, some never even shoot it. So I dont think anything I said is out of the norm, I try to avoid that. 
 

And finally, when I say first gun, I mean the first thing you shoot. Im from the bolt/pump and big school of thought, and I think that's what you start with your first time on the range, and first shots while you are still learning safety routines. Aside from pistols being dangerous, I don't think it needs to be the first thing you own. a 10/22 or an ar15 are probably great first guns to own

[Drak3]

8 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

I said long, and long is the common 22, You're correcting nothing.

.22 Long and .22 Long Rifle are two different cartridges. Not interchangeable.

 

9 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

literally said by 22 people assume 22 long,

Not that many people make that assumption. 22 Magnum is also fiarly comkon and Hornet is sold in many gun stores.

 

10 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

You're the one who siad and ar15 is chambered in 22.  Lol. 

Because it is. .223 Remington is a 22 caliber cartridge.

25 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

223 is small and fast, and it penetrates. Even steel. 

Every round penetrates steel, the question is at what thickness. 223 has issues penetrating hard material like steel. Also, any space between first contact and any additional contact allows .223 bullets to start to tumble. Most houses are drywall, 3 1/2" gap, drywall. You hit the first layer, the round starts toubling, and loses most of its energy hitting the second layer. Heavier bullets and buckshot don't tumble as easy, if at all.

 

51 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Shotguns cheap

Shitty shotguns are cheap. Decent shotguns cost as much as decent AR15s.

 

54 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

and easy to use for new people,

Just like AR15s. Harder to use from the not knowing how to control recoil though.

55 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

and are reliable for people that don't take care of their guns

No gun is reliable of you neglect it.

1 hour ago, Syntaxvgm said:

There are many tests online that show how many sheets of drywall stuff penetrates

They admit that their test was flawed.

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/

.223 penetrated all 4 of their walls, but the course deviated and the rounds tumbled.

Buckshot also penetrated all 4 walls.

 

Quite simply, that .223 might penetrate drywall, but it loses too much energy to be effective.

[PlayStation 2]

2 hours ago, fpo said:

This thread got real hostile real quick...

in this forum anything's a salt fest if you give it enough flame

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

The cheaper of the slugs I buy are a buck per shot. Cheap Bushmaster is $1.30/shot IN BULK, 458 Socom and Beowulf are $2/shot.

Ahh. I shot solid slugs. Yeah it’s like 5 dollars for 5. I shoot skeet and 25 are about 5 so it’s relatively expensive from my perspective. 

[Drak3]

16 minutes ago, fpo said:

Ahh. I shot solid slugs. Yeah it’s like 5 dollars for 5. I shoot skeet and 25 are about 5 so it’s relatively expensive from my perspective. 

Since I started shooting 6.5 Grendel, $1/round has become pretty standard pricing.