550w or 650w - Not sure which one to get

[Coal]

Hi to all,

I've kinda asked this on the tier list thread but I'm going to post it here because I'm really having hard time choosing between the two.

I'm having trouble deciding which wattage power supply I should use for my upcoming build. I'm currently going for an 8700k build and waiting for the 11xx GPU series. I'm not sure which GPU I'll get at the moment, I assume either an 1160/1170/1180 but its still unfortunate. I've no idea what the 11xx series' power consumption is gonna be, so I'm going to assume its similar to the current series (if anyone thinks otherwise please correct me).

For this reference I'm going to assume I'll be getting a GTX 1180 (picked a gtx 1080 in the calculator assuming it'll have the same power consumption).

I entered the following specs in the outervision calculator:

https://outervision.com/b/WZuJV0

 

If you've noticed I entered the CPU and GPU's max overclocking capabilities - 4.9GHz with 1.35v for the CPU and 2000MHz core clock + 2850MHz memory clock for the GPU. Did I do this right? the result I got was 550watts at load - a 600w power supply was recommended. This seems a little bit off because I've seen many people saying a 550w power supply is enough for such build. 

 

Also if let's say my overall power usage would be between 520w~550w, if I were to use a 550w power supply would I be stressing the power supply which will cause it to throttle?

 

I've also added some LEDs that I'll be controlling using an Arduino, not sure yet if I'll power them using the ATX power supply or an external AC one, neither way do LEDs consume that much power?

 

Thanks, any help is highly appreciated

[seon123]

The 780, 980 and 1080 have all been at 175-180W TDP. The 1180 is also very likely to be a 180W card. 

So a good 450-550W is plenty for overclocking. 

Overloading a PSU would not cause any of the PC to throttle, as there's no way for the PSU to communicate with the rest of the PC. Any PSU that isn't total crap (and many that are) will just shut down. 

[STRMfrmXMN]

A GTX 1080 and 1180 will likely use the very same amount of power. If not, it'll be 5W less maybe.

 

With an 8700K, both OC'd you'd be totally fine on a 550W. Don't bother with Outervision. Their calculator is garbage.

[Thenerd-err]

1 hour ago, Coal said:

Hi to all,

I've kinda asked this on the tier list thread but I'm going to post it here because I'm really having hard time choosing between the two.

I'm having trouble deciding which wattage power supply I should use for my upcoming build. I'm currently going for an 8700k build and waiting for the 11xx GPU series. I'm not sure which GPU I'll get at the moment, I assume either an 1160/1170/1180 but its still unfortunate. I've no idea what the 11xx series' power consumption is gonna be, so I'm going to assume its similar to the current series (if anyone thinks otherwise please correct me).

For this reference I'm going to assume I'll be getting a GTX 1180 (picked a gtx 1080 in the calculator assuming it'll have the same power consumption).

I entered the following specs in the outervision calculator:

https://outervision.com/b/WZuJV0

 

If you've noticed I entered the CPU and GPU's max overclocking capabilities - 4.9GHz with 1.35v for the CPU and 2000MHz core clock + 2850MHz memory clock for the GPU. Did I do this right? the result I got was 550watts at load - a 600w power supply was recommended. This seems a little bit off because I've seen many people saying a 550w power supply is enough for such build. 

 

Also if let's say my overall power usage would be between 520w~550w, if I were to use a 550w power supply would I be stressing the power supply which will cause it to throttle?

 

I've also added some LEDs that I'll be controlling using an Arduino, not sure yet if I'll power them using the ATX power supply or an external AC one, neither way do LEDs consume that much power?

 

Thanks, any help is highly appreciated

I'd go with 650w Because there is no point in saving like 10 bucks for extra  100w

[seon123]

1 minute ago, Thenerd-err said:

I'd go with 650w Because there is no point in saving like 10 bucks for extra  100w

Why pay more for a feature you won't use, a louder fan, and more potential for things to get destroyed in case of a catastrophic failure?

[Thenerd-err]

28 minutes ago, seon123 said:

Why pay more for a feature you won't use, a louder fan, and more potential for things to get destroyed in case of a catastrophic failure?

Most of the PSUs come with eco mode. And a bit higher wattage psu is always good for overclocking and future upgrades like for the gpu.

[seon123]

1 minute ago, Thenerd-err said:

Most of the PSUs come with eco mode. And a bit higher wattage psu is always good for overclocking and future upgrades like for the gpu.

I know that many PSU brands choose to use a crappy fan and a semi passive mode. Eco mode is just EVGA's branding for their crappy semi passive mode (crappy on all their units except for the T2). For example Seasonic's semi passive mode lasts until ~100W before their mediocre fan kicks in. Among the nicer fan PSUs you have the Whisper M and Straight Power 11. Neither of which have a semi passive mode. 

How would an overkill wattage PSU benefit overclocking? A nicer PSU would benefit, but a higher wattage one? No.

With a 1080 Ti, at stock the system draws under 400W. Assuming overclocking, a good 550W is plenty. 

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

Most of those "PSU Size Calculators" aren't worth the time of day. You'll be fine on 550w

[Stefan Payne]

2 hours ago, Coal said:

I'm currently going for an 8700k build and waiting for the 11xx GPU series.

Why not go with Ryzen? Might benefit you in the Future.

And its highly probable that you might use the 7nm Ryzen 3k Series that is coming next year.

The 2700(x) isn't far behind Intel anyway...

2 hours ago, Coal said:

I entered the following specs in the outervision calculator:

https://outervision.com/b/WZuJV0

Urgh, not that again...

Don't trust a web application you don't know what it does!

 

And its nothing more than a programm that adds the values you input. You could do that yourself with a apiece of paper and a pencil.

 

And it has a financiel interest to overestimate by a ton...

 

2 hours ago, Coal said:

This seems a little bit off because I've seen many people saying a 550w power supply is enough for such build. 

Yes, because that thing only adds worst case TDP values.

And your PC is mostly at around 200-300W under gaming conditions. So no need for a 600W+ PSU...

 

45 minutes ago, Thenerd-err said:

I'd go with 650w Because there is no point in saving like 10 bucks for extra  100w

Yeah and not getting an original italian pizza instead. Makes totally sense...

So why would you not get the Pizza and waste money for some bullshit you don't need and don't even have a  benefit.

15 minutes ago, Thenerd-err said:

Most of the PSUs come with eco mode. And a bit higher wattage psu is always good for overclocking and future upgrades like for the gpu.

You are wrong, totally.

 

1) the "ECO MOde" is bullshit and don't offer you much benefit at all. A better fan would be better

2) a bit higher wattage gives you nothing if you don't need it.

3) you waste money for nothing

4) in many cases the higher wattage ones have higher RPM fans, like +50% more under lower load conditions.

 

 

Buttom Line:
Save the 10€ on the PSU and get a Pizza instead.

[Thenerd-err]

15 minutes ago, seon123 said:

I know that many PSU brands choose to use a crappy fan and a semi passive mode. Eco mode is just EVGA's branding for their crappy semi passive mode (crappy on all their units except for the T2). For example Seasonic's semi passive mode lasts until ~100W before their mediocre fan kicks in. Among the nicer fan PSUs you have the Whisper M and Straight Power 11. Neither of which have a semi passive mode. 

How would an overkill wattage PSU benefit overclocking? A nicer PSU would benefit, but a higher wattage one? No.

With a 1080 Ti, at stock the system draws under 400W. Assuming overclocking, a good 550W is plenty. 

I see. Thanks for the information

[awesomegamer919]

8 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Why not go with Ryzen? Might benefit you in the Future.

And its highly probable that you might use the 7nm Ryzen 3k Series that is coming next year.

The 2700(x) isn't far behind Intel anyway...

Urgh, not that again...

Don't trust a web application you don't know what it does!

 

And its nothing more than a programm that adds the values you input. You could do that yourself with a apiece of paper and a pencil.

 

And it has a financiel interest to overestimate by a ton...

 

Yes, because that thing only adds worst case TDP values.

And your PC is mostly at around 200-300W under gaming conditions. So no need for a 600W+ PSU...

 

Yeah and not getting an original italian pizza instead. Makes totally sense...

So why would you not get the Pizza and waste money for some bullshit you don't need and don't even have a  benefit.

You are wrong, totally.

 

1) the "ECO MOde" is bullshit and don't offer you much benefit at all. A better fan would be better

2) a bit higher wattage gives you nothing if you don't need it.

3) you waste money for nothing

4) in many cases the higher wattage ones have higher RPM fans, like +50% more under lower load conditions.

 

 

Buttom Line:
Save the 10€ on the PSU and get a Pizza instead.

Can I get a 450w to save $20 and get 2 pizzas?  

[Stefan Payne]

3 minutes ago, awesomegamer919 said:

Can I get a 450w to save $20 and get 2 pizzas?  

if you want to and don't do any overclocking, probably.

 

Though it is possible to get close to 450W or even above that its really really hard to get close to 500 or 550W...

[awesomegamer919]

1 minute ago, Stefan Payne said:

if you want to and don't do any overclocking, probably.

 

Though it is possible to get close to 450W or even above that its really really hard to get close to 500 or 550W...

I have a 7700K + 1080, even with OC'ing I'd never hit 450w (without power mods or subambient cooling at least).

[Coal]

On 8/1/2018 at 7:03 PM, seon123 said:

The 780, 980 and 1080 have all been at 175-180W TDP. The 1180 is also very likely to be a 180W card. 

So a good 450-550W is plenty for overclocking. 

Overloading a PSU would not cause any of the PC to throttle, as there's no way for the PSU to communicate with the rest of the PC. Any PSU that isn't total crap (and many that are) will just shut down. 

 

On 8/1/2018 at 7:06 PM, STRMfrmXMN said:

A GTX 1080 and 1180 will likely use the very same amount of power. If not, it'll be 5W less maybe.

 

With an 8700K, both OC'd you'd be totally fine on a 550W. Don't bother with Outervision. Their calculator is garbage.

 

Thanks for clearing everything up. I was really unsure which one to get, I was afraid a 550w wouldn't be enough and on the other hand didn't want an overpowered PSU which I would never use all of its power. Before making this thread I almost grabbed the 650w one. I ended up getting a seasonic focus plus gold 550, very glad I made this decision and very glad I realised how garbage and inaccurate this PSU calculator is.

 

Thank you so much!

On 8/1/2018 at 9:40 PM, Stefan Payne said:

Why not go with Ryzen? Might benefit you in the Future.

And its highly probable that you might use the 7nm Ryzen 3k Series that is coming next year.

The 2700(x) isn't far behind Intel anyway...

Urgh, not that again...

Don't trust a web application you don't know what it does!

 

And its nothing more than a programm that adds the values you input. You could do that yourself with a apiece of paper and a pencil.

 

And it has a financiel interest to overestimate by a ton...

 

Yes, because that thing only adds worst case TDP values.

And your PC is mostly at around 200-300W under gaming conditions. So no need for a 600W+ PSU...

 

Yeah and not getting an original italian pizza instead. Makes totally sense...

So why would you not get the Pizza and waste money for some bullshit you don't need and don't even have a  benefit.

You are wrong, totally.

 

1) the "ECO MOde" is bullshit and don't offer you much benefit at all. A better fan would be better

2) a bit higher wattage gives you nothing if you don't need it.

3) you waste money for nothing

4) in many cases the higher wattage ones have higher RPM fans, like +50% more under lower load conditions.

 

 

Buttom Line:
Save the 10€ on the PSU and get a Pizza instead.

 

I already got the 8700k, grabbed it once when I came across a good mobo + CPU combo..

I actually saved 20$ on this, so two pizzas for me yay! Definitely worth it.

 

Thank you for helping!

[STRMfrmXMN]

2 hours ago, Coal said:

 

 

Thanks for clearing everything up. I was really unsure which one to get, I was afraid a 550w wouldn't be enough and on the other hand didn't want an overpowered PSU which I would never use all of its power. Before making this thread I almost grabbed the 650w one. I ended up getting a seasonic focus plus gold 550, very glad I made this decision and very glad I realised how garbage and inaccurate this PSU calculator is.

 

Thank you so much!

 

I already got the 8700k, grabbed it once when I came across a good mobo + CPU combo..

I actually saved 20$ on this, so two pizzas for me yay! Definitely worth it.

 

Thank you for helping!

Good PSU choice

[Coal]

Gotta say that I feel like I made a wrong choice and think I should've done some more research.

Now that the new GPUs were announced we know that the 2080 will consume 20% more power and 2070 would stay the same. Not a big deal as I think I will be getting the 2070 anyways but whatever.

 

I'm gaining a little interest in overclocking now, and summing up everything seems like I'll be getting very close to the power supply's maximum output.

An 8700k at high overclocks can consume up to 200watts with random sudden peak wattages of up to 70watts if I'm not mistaken. An RTX 2070 can consume over 250w when maxed overclocked too. The rest of the system would probably pull around 50watts, that's already exceeding 500watts. Not sure this is a good thing for the power supply.

 

It's very inconvenient having to feel stressed every time I wish to overclock my pc components and continuously thinking I might cause any damage accidentally.

 

Might end up selling this one and getting a 650w instead, not sure yet. If anyone think otherwise please share your opinion.

[seon123]

All PSUs that aren't complete crap are rated to run full power at their max rated temperature for the entirety of their warranty. Why do you think 500W would be bad?

And why do you think you'll use the CPU with an AVX workload (spikes do not matter, PSUs have capacitors) and the GPU running Furmark at the same time? The 2070 won't get anywhere near 250W. It's a 175-185W card. 

[Stefan Payne]

2 hours ago, Coal said:

An 8700k at high overclocks can consume up to 200watts with random sudden peak wattages of up to 70watts if I'm not mistaken.

Yes and without modification on the CPU that will void the warranty and might destroy it in the process, can't be cooled so the CPU will burn very quickly.

 

So you should read up on what you have to do to cool that piece first before thinking about OC. Because without planning and just doing it, you will kill your computer.

 

And also you need a Board with good VRM, wich you probably also don't have, do you??

 

2 hours ago, Coal said:

An RTX 2070 can consume over 250w when maxed overclocked too. The rest of the system would probably pull around 50watts, that's already exceeding 500watts. Not sure this is a good thing for the power supply.

get a powermeter and stopp guessing!

Those things cost like 10 bucks and are widely available and sold in every hardware store or whatever else you can find those.

That should give you a better ide athan to just randomly guess.

 

But to you expect your single CPU/GPU System to go over 550W when I didn't even achieve that with two graphics cards?? (R9-280X times two on a Ryzen R7-1700x).

 

2 hours ago, Coal said:

It's very inconvenient having to feel stressed every time I wish to overclock my pc components and continuously thinking I might cause any damage accidentally.

Just don't overclock!

As it doesn't give you much benefit but you risk your hardware.

Just look at it from a relative point of view.

 

From 4.4GHz to 5 is 12,5%

For that you have +50-100% higher power consumption

Yeah, totally worth it - NOT.

 

2 hours ago, Coal said:

Might end up selling this one and getting a 650w instead, not sure yet. If anyone think otherwise please share your opinion.

You are just guessing and don't even know what to do and you want to replace your PSU right now, before you even know what you want?

 

You see the Problem.

 

[awesomegamer919]

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Yes and without modification on the CPU that will void the warranty and might destroy it in the process, can't be cooled so the CPU will burn very quickly.

 

So you should read up on what you have to do to cool that piece first before thinking about OC. Because without planning and just doing it, you will kill your computer.

 

And also you need a Board with good VRM, wich you probably also don't have, do you??

To be fair, Intel CPUs will throttle at TjMax (100c), it shouldn't cause his CPU to burn up unless he's constantly running AVX or some shit like that...

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

get a powermeter and stopp guessing!

Those things cost like 10 bucks and are widely available and sold in every hardware store or whatever else you can find those.

That should give you a better ide athan to just randomly guess.

 

But to you expect your single CPU/GPU System to go over 550W when I didn't even achieve that with two graphics cards?? (R9-280X times two on a Ryzen R7-1700x).

I'm pretty sure it's possible to get a single GPU + CPU to hit 551w... FX9590 with an AVX load and a Vega64 that's been overclocked comes to mind...

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

Just don't overclock!

As it doesn't give you much benefit but you risk your hardware.

Just look at it from a relative point of view.

 

From 4.4GHz to 5 is 12,5%

For that you have +50-100% higher power consumption

Yeah, totally worth it - NOT.

Depends, some people just want the best performance - perhaps they don't pay for power, perhaps they already have top end parts and want that little bit extra out of their components.

2 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

You are just guessing and don't even know what to do and you want to replace your PSU right now, before you even know what you want?

 

You see the Problem.

 

No arguments there.