Dota team disqualified for macros

[ARikozuM]

I don't really see the harm in using macros. There's still plenty of investment (at least that is what it seems with this Meepo character; I don't play DotA, don't flame me) without the macro in order to set it up for success. 

 

Also, if this mattered, e-Sports organizers would suggest a list of mice and keyboards and other components (the tower itself should be standardized) that are allowed for use. The players can then train with any of said mice and receive one as their choice for the competition. If you don't want this to happen, you standardize the game. If you want to allow in-game macros, increase their complexity. If you don't want macros, remove them from the game. The only limits should be zero and whatever crashes the game. 

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

This is why competitive is kinda stupid IMO

[spartaman64]

6 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

I dont think using macros are equivalent to cheating, there is a ton of free software that lets you do this. So there is no unfair advantage in using a resource that is accessible to anyone.

well there are tons of scripts and cheat engines that are also free and available to everyone

[xAcid9]

Good,  macros should be ban in any competitive tournament. 

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

well there are tons of scripts and cheat engines that are also free and available to everyone

Except macros do not modify the game like cheats.... Most of the time it just replicates keystrokes.

[spartaman64]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

Except macros do not modify the game like cheats.... Most of the time it just replicates keystrokes.

scripts dont modify the game either. and macros can put in keystrokes with no delay. humans cant do that. there is no way for people to argue that being able to do commands faster in a game doesnt give you an advantage especially when apm is so important in many games

[JuztBe]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

Except macros do not modify the game like cheats.... Most of the time it just replicates keystrokes.

Macros can replicate mouse movements as well. That means that you can make a macro which reduces your recoil in CSGO to 0. Just put a small dot on your screen to know where to aim. 
Would that be cheating in your opinion?

[laminutederire]

17 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

I think I know of the Razer Synapse feature he is talking about and it's definitely a macro he's using. Just because it's a feature of the Razer software doesn't change that. And I don't see how they can argue that it isn't giving him an advantage since you can string a bunch of inputs together with 0ms delay in between.  

 

https://kotaku.com/dota-2-team-disqualified-after-allegedly-testing-positi-1827062150

The point is that if it gives that much of an advantage others can just buy a new mouse and do the same. It's not like most gaming hardware supports ridiculous amounts of macro capabilities nowadays.

It's like I personally bind grenades on my mouse in cs go and it sometimes gives me and unfair advantage because I can throw some of them faster this way in some situations. But everyone could do the same.

[Guest]

The winner gets 14.7 million and maybe a glimpse of sunlight. 

[xAcid9]

14 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

It's like I personally bind grenades on my mouse in cs go and it sometimes gives me and unfair advantage because I can throw some of them faster this way in some situations. But everyone could do the same.

Did you use 3rd party program to bind the key to your mouse? 

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, xAcid9 said:

Did you use 3rd party program to bind the key to your mouse? 

I believe some peripherals can be programmed to retain macros, so that even when you move the peripherals to another computer, the macros remain intact (or the player can uninstall the offending software). Not sure if this would count as 3rd party software.

[Taja]

15 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

I dont think using macros are equivalent to cheating, there is a ton of free software that lets you do this. So there is no unfair advantage in using a resource that is accessible to anyone.

Well, it is. We watch competitive because we want to see real skill and real plays, not the best programmer.

 

Just like in sports, if you get caught using drugs/doping you are disqualified - and drugs are a resource that is acessible by everyone, but that is not the point. It is against the rules and that makes perfect sense.

 

And as for people saying EVERY macro gives and unfair advantage, that is not true. The problem is not having a good mouse o kb and remaping keys, the problem is having a macro that does something a HUMAN could not do. If you set you hotkeys to your mouse and that is better for you, great. If you set a chain of commands with 0 delay to a button, that is not okay. What the guy did was using a bunch of commanda within the same milissecond (which you can check in the dota console)

[Peskanova]

4700h of dota 2 and like same on dota 1 , You can set binds on dota2 like cs:s and cs:go (if anyone remembers duck + jump in csgo on mousewheel was pretty common) And who can tell in this days that a program that comes with your periferical (like razer or corsair) its banable, that Is contraintuitive to GAMING brands , I just bought a k95 rgb platinum for 190€(not cheap) and the software allows me to do autofire in pubg or cs;go .So why blame gamers when you can deny 3rd party software macros to run with your anticheat (well its 3rd party but you need it to use your mouse/kb) (Csgo and pubg now cancels my autofire macro when i run those games)

 

EDIT :

As @Zodiark1593 said that k95 retains macros and profiles without the program , so if anyone says that 3rd party program is the problem they are partial wrong , because razer,corsair,asus or any brand that claims to be a gaming brand has his software.

This can be solved same as happen to me on pubg and csgo , just allow that program to run but blocking macros

[Doobeedoo]

Hmm don't know details aboit thos game and what's allowed though macro commands is nothing odd or cheating per say. Specially if anyone can make them. 

For example in WoW I have dozens of macros. 

[laminutederire]

2 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Did you use 3rd party program to bind the key to your mouse? 

Yeah Logitech's utility ! I paid for it

I'm not being VAC banned for it that's for a reason...

[xAcid9]

1 hour ago, Peskanova said:

So why blame gamers.

Macros is against the rule since Dota 1 so you only have yourself to blame if u get caught like in this case.

[The Benjamins]

13 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

I don't really see the harm in using macros. There's still plenty of investment (at least that is what it seems with this Meepo character; I don't play DotA, don't flame me) without the macro in order to set it up for success. 

 

Also, if this mattered, e-Sports organizers would suggest a list of mice and keyboards and other components (the tower itself should be standardized) that are allowed for use. The players can then train with any of said mice and receive one as their choice for the competition. If you don't want this to happen, you standardize the game. If you want to allow in-game macros, increase their complexity. If you don't want macros, remove them from the game. The only limits should be zero and whatever crashes the game. 

Riot Games validates and stores 2 keyboards and mice per player that are for LAN events only, to make it really hard to use hardware with macros.

 

 

3 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

This is pretty stupid.  It's not like they're using actual cheats, or taking drugs to "enhance" their focus.  This seems like a forced rule over someone being salty.

How is doing complex multi input tasks with 1 button not cheating, It would be like having autopilot in a F1 race.

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

But, it's not the same thing as a lag switch, wallhacking, or anything like that.   I just don't see a macro as cheating in any game.

ok the difference is its cheating in a competitive environment, but its not in standard game play.

How would you like it if your playing a fighter game to win $100,000 and you practice many hours but lose to a person that uses a macro that does a perfect combo that is nearly impossible to stop.

 

Should the person with the macro deserve the win?

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Um, Hori makes controllers that helps with that and has turbos.  Those are legit and fair use.

So you think its ok for people that do not need to learn to play a game on a advance level to win by using tools that are not allowed by the creators of the game/tournament just because they are sold to the public.

[Peskanova]

dude in cs:source + cs:go same bs , how many people use auto fire keys on mouse(its deep coded 3rd party software) , how many did you see using that on a tec9 or playing pubg with a m16? that autofire its not a macro? , In csgo css, dota also you can put on console key binding, that consists on more than 1 action , ex : 

 

Quote

unbind "space"
alias +DJUMP "+jump; +duck"
alias -DJUMP "-JUMP; -DUCK"
bind space "+DJUMP"

 

that is csgo/dota2 console

[The Benjamins]

6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

If a company like Corsair, Logitech, Hori, or so on makes it then it is fair use.  If someone is bitching over something like that then they're salty over a fucking game.  Now, if the person is forcing you out of the game, lag switching, abusing the standby on their router, shooting me through a wall, and so on then ya that's cheating.  But, changing a key bind or using a macro that anyone can use because of the open availability by the dev or a  company like a Logitech then I see it as fair.  Maybe it's annoying, but I don't see that on the same level as the other crap.  Plenty of games allow macros, especially fighting games and FPS games, but anyone crying over it in a MOBA is purely salty.  Now, maybe I missed it, but if it's a mod by a third party who also makes crap like wallhacks then maybe/I guess that's cheating.

This is for LAN competition game play where the RULES state no 1 key and do more then 1 action by the DEVs and tournament organizers that create the rules. So you are saying it is ok to ignore the rules of a tournament because a 3rd parties sells equipment with stuff that violates the rules.

 

This is not over a rank match done online, this is a regulated match done at LAN with rules created and agreed upon by the players. and you think its ok to just ignore rules set and agreed upon by everyone?

[xAcid9]

48 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

-snip-

https://media.giphy.com/media/E7yX6ZvDlYmEE/giphy.gif

29 minutes ago, Peskanova said:

how many people use auto fire keys on mouse

In high profile tournament?

[Peskanova]

21 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

This is for LAN competition game play where the RULES state no 1 key and do more then 1 action by the DEVs and tournament organizers that create the rules. So you are saying it is ok to ignore the rules of a tournament because a 3rd parties sells equipment with stuff that violates the rules.

 

This is not over a rank match done online, this is a regulated match done at LAN with rules created and agreed upon by the players. and you think its ok to just ignore rules set and agreed upon by everyone?

Dude I'm saying that you need to draw a line to finish this subject, if you consider cheat remove from software or make a popup telling that there are games that consider macro as cheat. Its not related to a program to do a macro you allways can bind switch target on doto with mouse wheel down and use poof with mouse up , then remap left click to a key and spam like a crazy mofo without need to macro... Its not only related to 3rd party software.

I play path of exile and that game for qol needs(it doesnt but its useful af) a Price-check macro with autohotkey.
There are plenty of games(like archeage) that you can do macro bots but only if you are standing on your desk (gm asks every time)
Those are not ilegal/banable but if I install autohotkey and bind my P to pricecheck for poe (it opens a mini window with a browser search) im afraid of another game seeing that autohotkey as a cheat software?, so corsair utility or razer synapse is a cheat software?.

Dude thats bs, if csgo(valve/vac/sourceengine) can remove my corsair utility macro set  by default why not doto2(valve/vac/sourceengine) cant with razer synapse on a tournament?.

[The Benjamins]

1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

I think it's incredibly stupid to have a rule against macros when most other tournaments allow them.  Fighting, mobas, FPS/especially arena shooter ones, and more allow it.  What's next banning the player for using a headset that isn't made by the sponsor?  Leaving it at "because bad dev said so" or "they agreed!"  is not a valid excuse to exclude macros.  Someone got salty is the more logical reason.

 

I don't know of a single tournament that allows macros, AFAIK everyone bans the use of them.

 

Banned from:

Riot Games events

MLG "MLG's regulations explicitly prohibit the use of "Players may not use a controller with Turbo capabilities, Button Mapping capabilities,""

Dota

ESL

Blizzard

ESEA

IEM

PUBG Online

 

That covers most major events.

[JoeCoke]

Why is it so hard for people to understand that macros should be banned from competitive play?