Microsoft OEM partners to show displeasure during CES 2014

[snowComet]

Michael Hatamoto, a journalist @ vr-zone, predicted that we will see more and more devices, which can dual boot Android and Windows 8, in

the upcoming CES 2014. This is a way for OEM partners to show their displeasure with Windows 8.

 

 

During the 2014 Consumer Electronics Show (CES) next month in Las Vegas, Microsoft will see the real world struggles of its touch-based Windows 8 operating system.  It will likely come in the form of dual-boot machines running both Windows 8 and Google Android, on tablets, notebooks and other consumer electronics.

 

Get used to hearing the term “PC Plus” and “two-in-one” in 2014, which both refer to a Windows 8.1 device that also dual-boots Android.

 

http://vr-zone.com/articles/microsoft-oem-partners-show-displeasure-ces-2014/67807.html

 

So what do you guys think? Did u guys think the Microsoft's OEM partners are not favoring Windows 8? How would these 2 in 1 devices influence the market?

[Kilerbomb]

I would never use the windows side of it.

[CwGoh]

I won't be surprised, Microsoft always treated OEMs like farce, and to make things worse, are making hardware to compete with the OEMs now.

[GoodBytes]

Android is free... Much like Intel integrated graphics. Despite being crappy, is what is being used on most systems. Consumer needs to demand Windows, for OEM to sale Windows. OEMs already tried with Linux. That never ended well. I except the same.

Microsoft hardware is what pushed OEMs to get out of their ass, and start innovate. This year is the first year I see an attempt to innovate. I guess people forgot how before everything was how can be make an over heating computer, with the paper thin plastic cashing, and TN panel using Windows minimum screen resolution, could be made cheaper.. as all we (the OEMs) can do is price war.

Now they get to use a R&D department for something. Yes, it costs money. Yes, investors don't like. Yes, it raised the prices of systems. But look at the difference. Now we do have system worthy of quality, now when you get home and open the box and the device is 1 peace, it's not actually a manufacture error where its supposed to fall apart by then, we have effort, we have exciting products to consider. So bash Windows 8 all you want, Windows 8 + Surface woke up the industry.

In addition, with the push for higher resolution on small screen, we FINALLY have more and more software companies, invest into testing there software for High-DPI settings, which will make 4K display on small screen space (<40inch) a possibility, a resolution we could use and enjoy smoother text, smoother icon, more workspace all together. And that means that Intel is being pushed to actually put effort in their integrated solution, and makes OEMs consider to get Nvidia and AMD graphic solution.

I believe that Microsoft move, with Windows 8 and Surface line of product, makes OEMs hate them, but in the end, is amazing for the consumer in getting a solid computer experience, solid system, pushing the industry forward, bring innovation to the table again. Now, all we need is the consumer to push that they want Windows, and not Android.

For reference, my current laptop is 5 years old... why? because there was nothing on the market that was actually better. As I already said it before on this forum, I have 3k, cash, ready to give it to anyone that brings a better laptop or device, and none had one, on both consumer and business side. Why upgrade to something inferior?

P.S: I am getting a Surface Pro 2. I would have gotten with the Dell Venue 11 Pro, but the pen, which is something I currently really need to be good, isn't great and has issues. But for those who are interested, the Dell Venue Pro 11 features a fanless designed Core i5, and a keyboard with battery dock, with full adjustability, swappable battery, more USB ports, and longer warranty option, over the Surface Pro 2.

[martinrox1568]

Android is free... Much like Intel integrated graphics. Despite being crappy, is what is being used on most systems. Consumer needs to demand Windows, for OEM to sale Windows. OEMs already tried with Linux. That never ended well. I except the same.

Microsoft hardware is what pushed OEMs to get out of their ass, and start innovate. This year is the first year I see an attempt to innovate. I guess people forgot how before everything was how can be make an over heating computer, with the paper thin plastic cashing, and TN panel using Windows minimum screen resolution, could be made cheaper.. as all we (the OEMs) can do is price war.

Now they get to use a R&D department for something. Yes, it costs money. Yes, investors don't like. Yes, it raised the prices of systems. But look at the difference. Now we do have system worthy of quality, now when you get home and open the box and the device is 1 peace, it's not actually a manufacture error where its supposed to fall apart by then, we have effort, we have exciting products to consider. So bash Windows 8 all you want, Windows 8 + Surface woke up the industry.

In addition, with the push for higher resolution on small screen, we FINALLY have more and more software companies, invest into testing there software for High-DPI settings, which will make 4K display on small screen space (<40inch) a possibility, a resolution we could use and enjoy smoother text, smoother icon, more workspace all together. And that means that Intel is being pushed to actually put effort in their integrated solution, and makes OEMs consider to get Nvidia and AMD graphic solution.

I believe that Microsoft move, with Windows 8 and Surface line of product, makes OEMs hate them, but in the end, is amazing for the consumer in getting a solid computer experience, solid system, pushing the industry forward, bring innovation to the table again. Now, all we need is the consumer to push that they want Windows, and not Android.

For reference, my current laptop is 5 years old... why? because there was nothing on the market that was actually better. As I already said it before on this forum, I have 3k, cash, ready to give it to anyone that brings a better laptop or device, and none had one, on both consumer and business side. Why upgrade to something inferior?

P.S: I am getting a Surface Pro 2. I would have gotten with the Dell Venue 11 Pro, but the pen, which is something I currently really need to be good, isn't great and has issues. But for those who are interested, the Dell Venue Pro 11 features a fanless designed Core i5, and a keyboard with battery dock, with full adjustability, swappable battery, more USB ports, and longer warranty option, over the Surface Pro 2.

How is android Crappy? How are intel hd graphics free? A $200 cpu isn't free. And I'm pretty sure there is a better laptop for 3k that is better than your current one.

[mr moose]

I think the bloke who wrote this article's percipience is rather one sided.  The choice by oem's is not necessarily a "displeasure with Microsoft" but it could easily (and my bet) be a response to consumer polling.

 

Tacking on one 'less than adequate' paragraph at the bottom of the article in order to appear impartial, tells us more about the accuracy of the content than anything.

[Whiskers]

Android is free... Much like Intel integrated graphics. Despite being crappy, is what is being used on most systems. Consumer needs to demand Windows, for OEM to sale Windows. OEMs already tried with Linux. That never ended well. I except the same.

Microsoft hardware is what pushed OEMs to get out of their ass, and start innovate. This year is the first year I see an attempt to innovate. I guess people forgot how before everything was how can be make an over heating computer, with the paper thin plastic cashing, and TN panel using Windows minimum screen resolution, could be made cheaper.. as all we (the OEMs) can do is price war.

Now they get to use a R&D department for something. Yes, it costs money. Yes, investors don't like. Yes, it raised the prices of systems. But look at the difference. Now we do have system worthy of quality, now when you get home and open the box and the device is 1 peace, it's not actually a manufacture error where its supposed to fall apart by then, we have effort, we have exciting products to consider. So bash Windows 8 all you want, Windows 8 + Surface woke up the industry.

In addition, with the push for higher resolution on small screen, we FINALLY have more and more software companies, invest into testing there software for High-DPI settings, which will make 4K display on small screen space (<40inch) a possibility, a resolution we could use and enjoy smoother text, smoother icon, more workspace all together. And that means that Intel is being pushed to actually put effort in their integrated solution, and makes OEMs consider to get Nvidia and AMD graphic solution.

I believe that Microsoft move, with Windows 8 and Surface line of product, makes OEMs hate them, but in the end, is amazing for the consumer in getting a solid computer experience, solid system, pushing the industry forward, bring innovation to the table again. Now, all we need is the consumer to push that they want Windows, and not Android.

For reference, my current laptop is 5 years old... why? because there was nothing on the market that was actually better. As I already said it before on this forum, I have 3k, cash, ready to give it to anyone that brings a better laptop or device, and none had one, on both consumer and business side. Why upgrade to something inferior?

P.S: I am getting a Surface Pro 2. I would have gotten with the Dell Venue 11 Pro, but the pen, which is something I currently really need to be good, isn't great and has issues. But for those who are interested, the Dell Venue Pro 11 features a fanless designed Core i5, and a keyboard with battery dock, with full adjustability, swappable battery, more USB ports, and longer warranty option, over the Surface Pro 2.

 

There are many flaws with this argument.

 

Linux was unsuccessful in the consumer market because it was excessively troublesome to install, set up and live with. It also had next to no software support, no game support, hit and miss hardware support owing to driver issues and was a complete mess. The few manufacturers that decided to try and use it were, frankly, idiotic - how did they expect it to end well when they were trying to sell an alien product to consumers who knew nothing about it and didn't care to learn?

 

Android may be based on Linux but is in a completely different position - it is a widely used, easy to use OS with a very high degree of software and hardware support. If manufacturers decide to implement it in their products then it will be infinitely more likely to take off than it would with Linux as Android is already an OS which is firmly established between consumers.

 

When did Microsoft hardware push OEM's to get their act together and innovate? When they invented the Zune it was a desperate attempt at killing the iPod, and it failed. When they made the Xbox 360 it was badly made and notoriously unreliable. When they made the Surface RT it had essentially no impact on the market and is now in most rational people's eyes a pretty big flop. Their hardware didn't push OEMs to innovate.

 

That's blatantly bullshit. Computers are no more reliable or free of manufacturing errors than they were with Windows 7.

 

You speak of how Microsoft innovates and pushes the industry forward. What an absurd notion considering the reality of their situation - they've been lambasted for being a stagnant company for years, and when they tried to move forward they failed to do it whole heartedly and we ended up with the mess that was Windows RT - a tablet OS that also tried to be a Desktop OS but didn't allow you to run x86 applications.

 

Android is a rapidly evolving, rapidly maturing platform. It's easier for consumers to use and naturally cheaper and easier for companies to utilise in their products. I welcome it wholeheartedly.

[Kirihuna]

How is android Crappy? How are intel hd graphics free? A $200 cpu isn't free. And I'm pretty sure there is a better laptop for 3k that is better than your current one.

Intel HD Graphics are on every CPU now. Instead of having to buy a CPU + GPU combo. $200 CPU isn't free, but the GPU is included on it now. If Intel didn't offer iGPUs, their prices would more than likely be the same. If a laptop works fine, then there is no need to upgrade. 

 

There are many flaws with this argument.

 

Linux was unsuccessful in the consumer market because it was excessively troublesome to install, set up and live with. It also had next to no software support, no game support, hit and miss hardware support owing to driver issues and was a complete mess. The few manufacturers that decided to try and use it were, frankly, idiotic - how did they expect it to end well when they were trying to sell an alien product to consumers who knew nothing about it and didn't care to learn?

 

Android may be based on Linux but is in a completely different position - it is a widely used, easy to use OS with a very high degree of software and hardware support. If manufacturers decide to implement it in their products then it will be infinitely more likely to take off than it would with Linux as Android is already an OS which is firmly established between consumers.

 

When did Microsoft hardware push OEM's to get their act together and innovate? When they invented the Zune it was a desperate attempt at killing the iPod, and it failed. When they made the Xbox 360 it was badly made and notoriously unreliable. When they made the Surface RT it had essentially no impact on the market and is now in most rational people's eyes a pretty big flop. Their hardware didn't push OEMs to innovate.

 

That's blatantly bullshit. Computers are no more reliable or free of manufacturing errors than they were with Windows 7.

 

You speak of how Microsoft innovates and pushes the industry forward. What an absurd notion considering the reality of their situation - they've been lambasted for being a stagnant company for years, and when they tried to move forward they failed to do it whole heartedly and we ended up with the mess that was Windows RT - a tablet OS that also tried to be a Desktop OS but didn't allow you to run x86 applications.

 

Android is a rapidly evolving, rapidly maturing platform. It's easier for consumers to use and naturally cheaper and easier for companies to utilise in their products. I welcome it wholeheartedly.

Xbox 360 was highly unreliable, yes. But its sales were off the charts until recently. And as the product aged, it was more reliable. I don't get your point in regards to this. Is this just blind hate to consoles? Surface RT won't go anywhere the same reason why Android tablets are barely marketable: the iPad has a high and tight market share. 

 

Until Android can run x86 applications in a way Windows can, I don't think it'll be viable as an OS replacement. 

 

I actually felt like vomiting up my beautiful Chirstmas food after reading this horrible post with unnecessary ignorance and blatant fan-boy-ism. If you honestly believe that companies are barely innovating and when they do it is down to Microsoft then you are a fool. Indeed Microsoft will have some influence but I can name a long list of other companies which are doing more to promote innovation in computing technology (like smartphones, tablets, computers, TVs etc etc) than Microsoft are even capable of doing.

 

As for Android being free so therefore it is crap... I'm not even going to explain this to you but the fact you think price = quality makes you are slave to consumerism and capitalism. One day you will learn how wrong you are but not before you get heavily screwed over by Microsoft. I can guarantee it.

 

The fact that you are a Trusted Adviser makes these post sicken me even more.

 

EDIT: I suggest you take a good long look at the post that Whiskers made.

I would like to see the list.

[Whiskers]

Xbox 360 was highly unreliable, yes. But its sales were off the charts until recently. And as the product aged, it was more reliable. I don't get your point in regards to this. Is this just blind hate to consoles? Surface RT won't go anywhere the same reason why Android tablets are barely marketable: the iPad has a high and tight market share. 

 

Until Android can run x86 applications in a way Windows can, I don't think it'll be viable as an OS replacement. 

 

I have a library of over 50 Xbox 360 games, countless peripherals and nearly 30000 gamerscore. I assure you this is not console hate - my point was that Microsoft's track record with hardware alone is not particularly good. Though ironically I'll admit the issues with the Surface RT had nothing to do with its hardware, which was actually quite decent if a little outdated.

 

Android tablets are actually quite marketable nowadays. Not as much so as the iPad no, but they're getting there. The prevalence of the likes of the Nexus 7 prove this.

 

Also, I disagree. For an OS designed for getting work done on or for business use of course Android is a joke in comparison to Windows, naturally - however for the average consumer level stuff, what does Windows have that Android doesn't?

[Kirihuna]

I have a library of over 50 Xbox 360 games, countless peripherals and nearly 30000 gamerscore. I assure you this is not console hate - my point was that Microsoft's track record with hardware alone is not particularly good. Though ironically I'll admit the issues with the Surface RT had nothing to do with its hardware, which was actually quite decent if a little outdated.

 

Android tablets are actually quite marketable nowadays. Not as much so as the iPad no, but they're getting there. The prevalence of the likes of the Nexus 7 prove this.

 

Also, I disagree. For an OS designed for getting work done on or for business use of course Android is a joke in comparison to Windows, naturally - however for the average consumer level stuff, what does Windows have that Android doesn't?

Surface RT's downfall is simply app selection. iOS and Android simply beat it out right. I mean WP8's app selection is small too.

 

Nexus is probably the only tablet I would ever consider picking up. Samsung markets too many tablets to understand the difference between them all, and even then, they're not as good as their phones are imo.

 

The problem comes to just that: businesses. But not just businesses, but students too. Most kids when they go off to college, the first time they get their own laptop is then. They need Office. Or they need some other programs that just use Windows only. Students and businesses are a huge reason as to why Windows will be a superior, and frankly, dominant OS for computers. 

 

I don't know if it does, but does Android even support GPUs like Nvidia and AMD's dGPUs? If not, no one could even game on Android lol. 

[Whiskers]

Surface RT's downfall is simply app selection. iOS and Android simply beat it out right. I mean WP8's app selection is small too.

 

Nexus is probably the only tablet I would ever consider picking up. Samsung markets too many tablets to understand the difference between them all, and even then, they're not as good as their phones are imo.

 

The problem comes to just that: businesses. But not just businesses, but students too. Most kids when they go off to college, the first time they get their own laptop is then. They need Office. Or they need some other programs that just use Windows only. Students and businesses are a huge reason as to why Windows will be a superior, and frankly, dominant OS for computers. 

 

I don't know if it does, but does Android even support GPUs like Nvidia and AMD's dGPUs? If not, no one could even game on Android lol. 

 

Oh it was quite a lot more than that.

 

The app selection was and remains awful. But it was also hindered by confused marketing, awful pricing and - I don't care how much some people disagree with me on this - a disjointed confusing mess of a user experience. One cannot expect to simply haphazardly throw the traditional Windows interface onto a small touchscreen device and expect it to work, especially not when said device cannot even run the x86 applications that the damned UI was designed for in the first place.

 

Samsung's tablet selection is pretty easy to sum up really. Get a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 or a Samsung Galaxy Note 8 because everything else sucks. Both of the aforementioned however are awesome owing to their brilliant S-Pen.

 

Indeed, and in this regard it's unlikely that anything will be comparing to Windows soon. However, for students I'd partially disagree - for the act of simply taking and reading notes, an Android device is perfectly adequate. It's a safe assumption to make that the majority of students don't really need anything more than that for the most part.

[Kirihuna]

 

Oh it was quite a lot more than that.

 

The app selection was and remains awful. But it was also hindered by confused marketing, awful pricing and - I don't care how much some people disagree with me on this - a disjointed confusing mess of a user experience. One cannot expect to simply haphazardly throw the traditional Windows interface onto a small touchscreen device and expect it to work, especially not when said device cannot even run the x86 applications that the damned UI was designed for in the first place.

 

Samsung's tablet selection is pretty easy to sum up really. Get a Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 or a Samsung Galaxy Note 8 because everything else sucks. Both of the aforementioned however are awesome owing to their brilliant S-Pen.

 

Indeed, and in this regard it's unlikely that anything will be comparing to Windows soon. However, for students I'd partially disagree - for the act of simply taking and reading notes, an Android device is perfectly adequate. It's a safe assumption to make that the majority of students don't really need anything more than that for the most part.

I mean, Surface RT for $200 was ALMOST something I bought on Black Friday... almost. Having an RT, 8, and Pro made no sense to most people. I agree. It's incredible hard to differentiate. If it was just simplified to one tablet, like iPad Air vs iPad Mini or Nexus 7 vs Nexus 10, it would be so much easier. I get having a different OS for mobile than desktop. Not for phone, desktop, and tablet. iOS for iPad and iPhone are the same, minus a few caveats for each device. I don't get why they couldn't use WP8, which is a bloody fantastic OS tbh. 

 

Almost everything here at least is required to submit digitally in Word format. Once Word makes itself appear on Android and iOS, thinks will be easier. 

[Whiskers]

I mean, Surface RT for $200 was ALMOST something I bought on Black Friday... almost. Having an RT, 8, and Pro made no sense to most people. I agree. It's incredible hard to differentiate. If it was just simplified to one tablet, like iPad Air vs iPad Mini or Nexus 7 vs Nexus 10, it would be so much easier. I get having a different OS for mobile than desktop. Not for phone, desktop, and tablet. iOS for iPad and iPhone are the same, minus a few caveats for each device. I don't get why they couldn't use WP8, which is a bloody fantastic OS tbh. 

 

Almost everything here at least is required to submit digitally in Word format. Once Word makes itself appear on Android and iOS, thinks will be easier. 

 

Indeed. I personally would love to have a Surface Pro, but after I got an Android tablet I found myself desiring a Surface RT infinitely less than before. I came to the realisation that all of its functionality could be achieved for a lower cost through an Android device - and there was some functionality I could get which the Surface RT didn't have, such as a Wacom stylus. I have my own issues with Windows Phone 8, but in terms of the interface itself it's more or less decent. I would've been much happier if they had taken it, modified it and used it on the Surface RT than using that silly ARM-based version of Windows 8...

 

That is true. But Android has a great many programs compatible with .doc files, and not everyone has or can afford Office. I personally have had to rely on the likes of Kingsoft Office on my Android tablet for things at college.

[mgsstar]

If these devices had an option for dual booting between Windows and Android and being affordable, I would be more attracted in getting one as I like both of these OSes and now I can use both of them on one device.

[LordGarth6]

dual boot windows and android is a cool idea but only for things that can be used on the go, and at a desk very well, while taking the benefits of both systems. the vast amount of software that can be used on a desktop windows os with the compatibility with decent hardware, and the much lighter android os for simplier tasks.

i would love to see a system that gives you a 10 inch touch screen monitor that is docked for windows and removed for android, but includeds an actual monitor for desktop only, so you have a dual monitor setup.

 

for the whole arguement about what students use it depends on the student them selves and what they study, i personally use windows 8.1 on desktop and say it works well but i dont really use the modern ui side of it, android on a samsung galaxy note 10.1 older model for the pen input for digital notes mostly. i study engineering and mostly use windows for simulation and design software and android for hand written digital notes.

 

windows rt and WP os need to be merged as having both are pointless and then call windows mobile to stop confusion so then it will be easier to market. ur average joe will not buy dual boot devices i think, without being told by their local 'techie'. if they want a laptop/desktop they will get windows or mac but if they want a tablet they will get android or ios as they are all the mainstream options and everything else is a niche tbh. i dont think oems are doing this as they are annoyed at microsoft [though it might be] i think they want to try pull in the tablet users and make an android ecosystem that links in the desktop.

[EChondo]

Dell has been supporting Ubuntu based laptops(and desktops?) with support service as well for the past couple years.

 

I have recently tried Windows 8.1, installed it for the past two weeks, I ended up reinstalling Windows 7 due to something taking up a huge amount of my CPU utilization for no reason and even when closing all of my personal programs down, even running in Safe Mode, it continued to happen.

 

I don't know if it was a one time fluke with me, but I uninstalled immediately and don't have plans on going back. I really want to hear what the OEM's have to say about Windows 8/8.1.

[R4STABAN]

It's obvious why they're displeased.

The consumer desktop market has imploded, the consumer laptop market is not long for this world and microsoft is still nowhere near ready to present a compelling alternative to android or ios.

What microsoft has done is turn their OS into a tablet OS that, frankly, doesn't appeal to tablet consumers. In the process they've scared off some of the few remaining people that wanted a new laptop and dropped their customer satisfaction levels to almost vista levels (i'm looking forward to next years' asci rating for them )

[mr moose]

It's obvious why they're displeased.

The consumer desktop market has imploded, the consumer laptop market is not long for this world and microsoft is still nowhere near ready to present a compelling alternative to android or ios.

What microsoft has done is turn their OS into a tablet OS that, frankly, doesn't appeal to tablet consumers. In the process they've scared off some of the few remaining people that wanted a new laptop and dropped their customer satisfaction levels to almost vista levels (i'm looking forward to next years' asci rating for them )

It may not be compelling for you, but for a lot of nontechies it is genius. They are making up ground were iOS is loosing on the mobile front, and tablets are appealing to many older new users.

[Kamina]

Hilarious.

[R4STABAN]

It may not be compelling for you, but for a lot of nontechies it is genius. They are making up ground were iOS is loosing on the mobile front, and tablets are appealing to many older new users.

It's clearly not compelling for the marketplace if OEMs have to dual boot with android on their 2 in 1 tablet products rofl.

[mr moose]

It's clearly not compelling for the marketplace if OEMs have to dual boot with android on their 2 in 1 tablet products rofl.

I guess you haven't caught the latest sales figures?

 

Windows 8 tablets have tripled in sales in the last quarter of 2013. Even though they started with a small base of market share it is still quite an immense growth spurt.  If you think that is "not compelling for the market" then you have no idea what a compelling market looks like.

 

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/news/press-releases/u-s-commercial-channel-computing-device-sales-set-to-end-2013-with-double-digit-growth-according-to-npd/

[GoodBytes]

the problem that I see with this design, is app sharing.

Lets say I want to play Civ 5. A game that is touch friendly. Runs perfectly on the Surface Pro-like device.

But I am on Android as I am on a tablet mode.

Lets say I took down a note in a note taking application on Android. Now I am on Windows, on my desktop, how do I access it? Sure, this specific problem could be solve by using programs that uses cloud sync, and have the program on both OS. But that means I needs to buy the program twice. And if it's free, I need to have the program twice... making is redundant and lose space for nothing.

While not perfect, Windows 8 approach is better, until the above is solved. At best use BlueStack, and run Android on Windows.