telemetry Next Windows 10 build will show what is being sent as telemetry data

[captain_to_fire]

13 minutes ago, TidaLWaveZ said:

What specifically are you talking about when you say personally identifiable information?

 

User ID is about as detailed as it gets afaik.

Well as the Dutch DPA has found out, even at basic telemetry settings there are data being collected that can be traced back to a single person and the way Microsoft gathers them is very ambiguous. If you know someone who can read Dutch, it will shed some answers. https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/sites/default/files/atoms/files/onderzoek_microsoft_windows_10_okt_2017.pdf

 I don't know Dutch but I got rough translations from Google Translate.

[TidaLWaveZ]

2 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Well as the Dutch DPA has found out, even at basic telemetry settings there are data being collected that can be traced back to a single person and the way Microsoft gathers them is very ambiguous. If you know someone who can read Dutch, it will shed some answers. https://autoriteitpersoonsgegevens.nl/sites/default/files/atoms/files/onderzoek_microsoft_windows_10_okt_2017.pdf

 I don't know Dutch but I got rough translations from Google Translate.

 

[leadeater]

24 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Is Server 2012 R2 more stable than Server 2016? As far as I remember in a WAN show episode Luke told Linus that he's still using 8.1 and he hasn't found anything that requires him to use 10 then Linus responded that either their editing PCs or their server (I'm not sure which one) never had major problems when it was running on 8.1 (or Server 2012).

Server stability is much the same, though basing that off only a few years doesn't mean a lot. Most of the stability of servers comes from control and management of them rather than being more stable than their desktop counterparts.

 

I used to run Server 2012 R2 for my gaming desktop mainly for the lower ram usage and better support for the RAID cards and 10Gb network cards I used. Don't remember why I went with Windows 10 and not Server 2016 currently but it doesn't really matter much.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Mostly in general but if Microsoft wants to add the telemetry to previous versions of Windows that's their choice for their product. The ads is a bit tougher as there are already regulations around advertising but like a lot of those they  weren't written in mind of the internet or in software placement.

Totally agree that they have the legal power to do so (and should). I think it is morally wrong though.

I just don't think they should be allowed to do it while masquerade the update as a security update. Might be hard to write such a law but I think the Windows 7 "upgrade to Windows 10!" one was pretty clearly not to protect consumers.

[Doobeedoo]

Well, cool for some extra transparency, should've been there from the start. Still, full and complete control would be much welcomed and appreciated by everyone. We've yet to see this in more detail, but it's something since they were pressured. 

[yian88]

15 hours ago, Sierra Fox said:

"Microsoft aren't honest about their telemetry"

 

*makes telemetry data viewable*

 

"bullshit, they wouldnt tell us this this is lies"

 

seriously what the actual fuck is wrong with this forum. you ask for something, you get it and claim it's bull shit/lies. What do these companies have to do to appease you?

 

Same thing happen in the thread about NVidia asking retails to not sell to miners.

 

People want manufacturers to have stock for gamers, NVidia asked not to sell to miners, this forum calls it PR Stunt bullshit

And people are almost always right. I dont want microsoft to show me what it collects i want them to collect nothing, stop profiling me and sell my shit to advertisers and the spy agencies whenever they request, i want full blown privacy or nothing is good enough.

Nvidia is a shit company, they just didnt/dont have enough competition, they are very deep rooted now in the market no one can take them on and win, even if intel makes dedicated gpu's with Raja Koduri leading the development they just cant take on nvidia, and intel is just as scummy as nvidia.

[Jito463]

17 hours ago, Drak3 said:

So, why aren't other corporations held to the same standards? As a matter of fact, what ******* right does the EU have to dictate that Microsoft can't sell their software package the way they were when it really didn't hurt the consumers in any capacity?

To understand that, you have to go back to the 90's, when the internet was just becoming popular.  At that time, it was common for browsers to be sold, not given away freely.  I bought Netscape Communicator Suite for around $80 once.  With IE being bundled in, and making it very difficult for anyone to set another browser as the default, it was hard for any other browser to become recognized outside of techies and power users.

 

That was what set off a series of anti-trust investigations into MS, resulting in lawsuits regarding the default browser in both the EU and the US.  The US suit didn't really amount to much, though, apart from (perhaps) making it easier to set another browser as the default.

 

The funny thing is, the EU version of Windows didn't ship without IE, it just didn't have it set as the default.  There's no way for them to ship the OS without it, since it's so deeply integrated.

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, leadeater said:

Also I much prefer when people talk about the topic they stick to actually correct terms and not over exaggerate i.e. Data theft or use silly names like spy10. It's hard enough discussing an ambiguous topic without adding in ambiguous terms and wording that you know isn't correct and are using them for effect, no I don't mean you.

 

 

This is why I am reluctant to engage these topics anymore.  It's one thing to have an opinion on a matter (which I am happy to accept), but a completely different thing to go making unevidenced assumptions and proclaiming them as fact with aggressive terms and references.

 

As you say, it's hard enough to talk about what is going on without having to wade through/deal with posts that are 1% fact and 99% emotional group think.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Jito463 said:

To understand that, you have to go back to the 90's, when the internet was just becoming popular.  At that time, it was common for browsers to be sold, not given away freely.  I bought Netscape Communicator Suite for around $80 once.  With IE being bundled in, and making it very difficult for anyone to set another browser as the default, it was hard for any other browser to become recognized outside of techies and power users.

 

That was what set off a series of anti-trust investigations into MS, resulting in lawsuits regarding the default browser in both the EU and the US.  The US suit didn't really amount to much, though, apart from (perhaps) making it easier to set another browser as the default.

 

The funny thing is, the EU version of Windows didn't ship without IE, it just didn't have it set as the default.  There's no way for them to ship the OS without it, since it's so deeply integrated.

Here is a great documentary about it. The US was actually considering breaking Microsoft into two separate companies because of their anti-competitive behavior with IE.

An appeal court decided that splitting Microsoft was too harsh of a punishment for their crimes, but if it hadn't been for that appeal things would have been quite different today. So requesting Microsoft to display a selection of browsers on startup for a few years was very tame compared to what the US was considering.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

This is why I am reluctant to engage these topics anymore.  It's one thing to have an opinion on a matter (which I am happy to accept), but a completely different thing to go making unevidenced assumptions and proclaiming them as fact with aggressive terms and references.

 

As you say, it's hard enough to talk about what is going on without having to wade through/deal with posts that are 1% fact and 99% emotional group think.

I don't think I have ever seen you actually accept someone's opinion on this matter though. You always come across as spiteful and condescending, calling people paranoid and tinfoil hat wearers.

[Cookybiscuit]

20 hours ago, Sierra Fox said:

"Microsoft aren't honest about their telemetry"

 

*makes telemetry data viewable*

 

"bullshit, they wouldnt tell us this this is lies"

 

seriously what the actual fuck is wrong with this forum. you ask for something, you get it and claim it's bull shit/lies. What do these companies have to do to appease you?

 

Same thing happen in the thread about NVidia asking retails to not sell to miners.

 

People want manufacturers to have stock for gamers, NVidia asked not to sell to miners, this forum calls it PR Stunt bullshit

Are you okay for me to key your car if I warn you I'm going to do it beforehand and I tell you which parts I'm going to scratch? Do you think that because I warned you about the keying, there's something stopping me putting a brick through the front window unannounced?

[mr moose]

53 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

I don't think I have ever seen you actually accept someone's opinion on this matter though. You always come across as spiteful and condescending, calling people paranoid and tinfoil hat wearers.

 

 

I am happy to accept many people don't like MS for their practices. That is an opinion I am fine with.  What I have never been fine with is claiming things that aren't evidenced as fact. 

 

I get it, you don't like a lot of what MS has done as do quite a few others, the same thing happens with apple, google, Intel and AMD all the time.  A great example was the AMD driver installing a shortcut.  I don't care if people thought that was a dodgy move (or even unethical, I personally thought it was pushing the friendship), but I won't accept it was adware as some claimed. Same with MS, I don't care if you hate MS for their data collection, but I won't accept that they are collecting more data than they say they are without proof.

 

So if someone tries to tell me that MS are taking great chunks of data from private emails without evidence then I am going to call them paranoid.  Because that is quite the claim to make given the size and structure of MS's business not to mention the potential for very damaging lawsuits should they get caught.   However if someone says they hate MS because they want a "no data collection" option, then that is fine.  It may not end well for product development if no one sends crash reports, but still a fine opinion to have.

[RagnarokDel]

22 hours ago, Kherm said:

I'm amazed that people are complaining that this is somehow not enough or not honest.

Of course, Microsoft is evil and collects all our data! Luckily Google and Apple are there to protect us. /s

[jagdtigger]

18 hours ago, leadeater said:

Also I much prefer when people talk about the topic they stick to actually correct terms and not over exaggerate i.e. Data theft or use silly names like spy10. It's hard enough discussing an ambiguous topic without adding in ambiguous terms and wording that you know isn't correct and are using them for effect, no I don't mean you.

Then what you would call it, some fancy name like unauthorized access to sensitive personal data? BTW nothing ambiguous about data theft, its perfectly describing what MS is doing.

 

Spy10 is justified since it evades any and all software attempt to stop data gathering:

Quote

Spyware is software that aims to gather information about a person or organization without their knowledge, that may send such information to another entity without the consumer's consent, or that asserts control over a device without the consumer's knowledge.

Hell, even the last part is partially true with the forced restart and update. Not to mention the ""accidental"" reset of some settings to favor MS....

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Then what you would call it, some fancy name like unauthorized access to sensitive personal data? BTW nothing ambiguous about data theft, its perfectly describing what MS is doing.

It's called Windows 10.

[jagdtigger]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

It's called Windows 10.

And Visual Studio and who knows what else from MS....

[leadeater]

16 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

And Visual Studio and who knows what else from MS....

I think you missed the point, calling it spy10 is what I object to or creating any other names or just throwing out descriptive words of actions that isn't correct to what is happening. You can't have a discussion about what is going on if people just make stuff up or pretend it's something it's not.

 

Quote

Spyware is software that aims to gather information about a person or organization without their knowledge, that may send such information to another entity without the consumer's consent, or that asserts control over a device without the consumer's knowledge.

Like this for example, you are told and you have to accept that there is data collection when installing Windows 10. The issue is if you are adequately informed not that you were not at all. You do have knowledge that data is being collected. Further to this issue unless you live in the country where this is being breached under their local laws it does not apply to you and if it does it doesn't mean it applies to everyone else.

 

You're complaining that some said "hey I'm going to hit you" then the proceed to hit you but more than once and your reaction is to say "I didn't know they were going to hit me", no you were told.

 

This is also why you cannot call it data theft, it just isn't.

 

I'm not saying what Microsoft is doing is right or you should like it or even that your opinion of what is happening is wrong, but I object to just making stuff up and calling things what they aren't. You can call Microsoft all kinds of horrible names and condemn their actions but if you are going to say this action equals this it better be correct.

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

you are told and you have to accept that there is data collection when installing Windows 10

At the beginning no, they only admitted it after they were caught with their pants down.... That is why many calls it spyware or spy10, in my case it stays that way until some trustworthy 3rd party cracks it open and publishes what is exactly going on.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

At the beginning no, they only admitted it after they were caught with their pants down.... That is why many calls it spyware or spy10, in my case it stays that way until some trustworthy 3rd party cracks it open and publishes what is exactly going on.

Windows 10 always made you accept data collection, that section in the OOBE has been there from the start. Microsoft over time has improved what is written on the OOBE screen and given further clarification on their website but at no point were you never told that there was collection, not even during Betas and Release Candidates.

[jagdtigger]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Windows 10 always made you accept data collection, that section in the OOBE has been there from the start. Microsoft over time has improved what is written on the OOBE screen and given further clarification on their website but at no point were you never told that there was collection, not even during Betas and Release Candidates.

But it was orginally never disclosed in detail what they do collect, and even the basic level is way too much for "diagnostic purposes"... This little tid-bit was revealed later AFAIK.

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

But it was orginally never disclosed in detail what they do collect, and even the basic level is way too much for "diagnostic purposes"... This little tid-bit was revealed later AFAIK.

Yep, maybe and re-read what I wrote because that is what I said. What you're talking about is if you were properly informed to what you are consenting to, by nature of this issue it predicates that you were actually informed of something. Some countries have laws around this and if it is determined that a person was not adequately informed of what they were accepting it then invalidates that acceptance.

 

Here is the original RC Windows 10 OOBE screen.

 

As you can see it mentions multiple times data will be collected and sent to Microsoft, it doesn't fully state what that data is down to every data type/point. The other issue with this screen is not by default presenting you with the customizations which barely explain things better but at least allows you to turn some things off. This screen and customization options were later changed and more than once.

 

You can't honestly say to me you were not told at all that Windows 10 is collecting data and sending it to Microsoft, not unless you did not complete this screen yourself or did not read it or closed your eyes and clicked wildly until you managed to hit 'Use Express settings'

[Princess Luna]

On 1/25/2018 at 1:02 AM, Kherm said:

Microsoft would literally have to release a version of Windows without a Store, live tiles, and an XP-style Windows Update system where have to go to a website to download new updates, and no included browser.

That's my Win 10, it doesn't have Store, Live Titles, Win 7 Style and UI, no Cortana, no Apps, old search bar, old windows photo view, media player classic and so on, Edge is fine for a secondary browser, though mostly Firefox.

 

Takes me a day to do all the changes and make Win 10 behave and be exactly what I want from it, if people have so much time to complain they should have time to make it the way they want too.

[jagdtigger]

38 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Takes me a day to do all the changes and make Win 10 behave and be exactly what I want from it, if people have so much time to complain they should have time to make it the way they want too.

So you think this is normal and we should shut-up and became sheeps like you who put up with it? (No offense but this is how it sounds to me.)

 

57 minutes ago, leadeater said:

 

You can't honestly say to me you were not told at all that Windows 10 is collecting data and sending it to Microsoft, not unless you did not complete this screen yourself or did not read it or closed your eyes and clicked wildly until you managed to hit 'Use Express settings'

There is a difference between forced to agree, and willingly accepting it. Since MS is basically has a monopoly in the PC space many users are forced to agree to their terms because there is no other alternative to their used programs(games,  professional programs, etc). So debating if i or others accepted or not is pretty pointless when you basically have a gun pushed to your head.

[Princess Luna]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

So you think this is normal and we should shut-up and became sheeps like you who put up with it?

Because fixing your issue yourself turns you into a sheep? I fail to understand the logic.

[Guest]

On 25/01/2018 at 12:15 PM, AresKrieger said:

They've already been caught lying about it why would anyone trust them now, if they actually cared they wouldn't have done it in the first place this is just an attempt to lighten any potential fines and lower the amount of bad press

Microsoft CEO should get some tips from Intel about insider trading soon.

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

So you think this is normal and we should shut-up and became sheeps like you who put up with it? (No offense but this is how it sounds to me.)

???? 

I don't think it means what you think it means.