Hades Canyon NUC - How stupid are AMD, really?

[Apepa]

 

 

This looks awesome.

 

But one thing I find more mind-blowing than the fact that Intel and AMD collaborated on this chip, is the fact that AMD didn't do it first!!!

 

AMD have been making (let's face it, crappy) "APUs" for years and are the only company that really has expertise in designing both competitive GPUs and CPUs. They also created the backbone of both of the big current-gen consoles. So why the hell has it taken a collaboration with Intel of all companies for them to produce a powerful AIO CPU-GPU combo for the PC market that actually looks desirable? If they released a combo Ryzen+Vega AIO platform they could dominate the compact, budget and midrange sectors of both the CPU and GPU markets. They must be either crazy or stupid.

[Froody129]

I read Radeon RX Vegan 

 

AMD doesn’t have the budget to develop massive new lines of products that won’t sell well because the market is small. A lot of gamers would just buy a proper GPU rather than an APU for gaming. 

 

Those APUs were very nice value for money and could actually run games half decently.

 

Also note their new APUs have Vega on them

[Jurrunio]

AMD has just started building their rep in the mobile market. Releasing a mobile chip with both Zen and Radeon graphics now will be a bit of a rush. 

[Apepa]

12 minutes ago, Froody129 said:

I read Radeon RX Vegan 

?

12 minutes ago, Froody129 said:

AMD doesn’t have the budget to develop massive new lines of products that won’t sell well because the market is small. A lot of gamers would just buy a proper GPU rather than an APU for gaming. 

This is my point though. Historically the APUs AMD have released had very weak graphics. If you integrated a midrange GPU like a 580 on chip with a Ryzen 3 or 5 CPU and made the whole thing cost less than buying the two separately you could kill the i5 and 1060. Sure, there will always be people who only go for the most expensive gear like a 1080 Ti, 8700k build, but there are a lot of PC gamers who just want a reasonably powerful gaming machine without the restrictions of a console. It would be a winner.

[Nicnac]

I have been waiting for this! looks like an awesome product. better than a 1060?! holy shit! bye bye crappy dual-core and 1050ti setup!  

seriously this makes all those budget setups obsolete. This is the kind of progress I'd like to see in the market!

I just hope they give you a less flashy skull option... lol

[MarcoTexture]

AMD can't compete alone vs intel+nvidia mobile market. They simply don't have the budget to do so. Also, although I am a big amd fan, When I started to work in the enterprise segment, I noticed how almost everyone just give the "Ewww" reaction when they hear the word "AMD". Intel rules the enterprise space.

 

This product offers something unique. For once, it comes with THUNDERBOLT, not one but TWO, AMD can never do this as this technology is proprietary to Intel. and Then It comes with a lot of display ports which is also a big point for offices with multi monitor setup. Believe it or not. We have bought a 6000$ laptop from dell that comes with a quadro and mobile xeon and has plently of display IO, The fact these ports were wired to iGPU, and Nvidia using optimus, it was almost impossible to connect it to a quad 1080p external display configuration. We had to disable the nvidia gpu to do so. It was just a hardware limitation.

 

So yeah I feel this product will gain a lot of reputation and attention. Also it comes at a very competitive price.

[Dabombinable]

33 minutes ago, Apepa said:

?

This is my point though. Historically the APUs AMD have released had very weak graphics. If you integrated a midrange GPU like a 580 on chip with a Ryzen 3 or 5 CPU and made the whole thing cost less than buying the two separately you could kill the i5 and 1060. Sure, there will always be people who only go for the most expensive gear like a 1080 Ti, 8700k build, but there are a lot of PC gamers who just want a reasonably powerful gaming machine without the restrictions of a console. It would be a winner.

They've had problems more with weak CPU than weak graphics-as it is the GPU portion of their Bristol Ridge APU is stronger than Intel's iGPU (especially in the same price bracket). And Bristol Ridge is let down by the abysmal CPU (think 2007-2008 level performance).

[Apepa]

23 minutes ago, MarcoTexture said:

AMD can't compete alone vs intel+nvidia mobile market. They simply don't have the budget to do so.

Which makes entirely no sense. As I said, they are the only company that has advanced expertise (but not the best) in both the GPU and CPU sectors. It doesn't make sense that they need extra money coming in from Intel, Microsoft or Sony to be able to design an AIO chip that can game reasonably.

 

23 minutes ago, MarcoTexture said:

I am a big amd fan, When I started to work in the enterprise segment, I noticed how almost everyone just give the "Ewww" reaction when they hear the word "AMD". Intel rules the enterprise space.

I used to be an AMD (and ATI) guy too, but for the last few years AMD seems to have just stopped trying. I started building PCs in that early 00s era where AMD were considered legends for breaking Intel's stranglehold on the x86 market and even outright beating them with the Athlon 64 series. It's sad for me that I no longer consider AMD a viable option anymore after using their products for most of my life.

[Dabombinable]

20 minutes ago, Apepa said:

Which makes entirely no sense. As I said, they are the only company that has advanced expertise (but not the best) in both the GPU and CPU sectors. It doesn't make sense that they need extra money coming in from Intel, Microsoft or Sony to be able to design an AIO chip that can game reasonably.

 

I used to be an AMD (and ATI) guy too, but for the last few years AMD seems to have just stopped trying. I started building PCs in that early 00s era where AMD were considered legends for breaking Intel's stranglehold on the x86 market and even outright beating them with the Athlon 64 series. It's sad for me that I no longer consider AMD a viable option anymore after using their products for most of my life.

Remember, Intel and AMd do have cross licensing going for x86 and AMD64. Also, AMD stopped trying in 2011 (lets never forget Bulldozer and its mediocre to shitty derivatives)..

[Apepa]

56 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Remember, Intel and AMd do have cross licensing going for x86 and AMD64. Also, AMD stopped trying in 2011 (lets never forget Bulldozer and its mediocre to shitty derivatives)..

 I can't. That's why I went with Coffeelake even though there are so many AMD apologists claiming the equivalent Ryzen is a better deal. Even before Bulldozer, AMD was taking the "easy way out" by adding more cores instead of chasing single clock speed and IPC. This is the company that was the first to reach 1Ghz, and kept Intel's rapid clock speed advances in check by offering better IPC. I really used to love AMD.

[Dabombinable]

1 minute ago, Apepa said:

 I can't. That's why I went with Coffeelake even though there are so many AMD apologists claiming the equivalent Ryzen is a better deal. Even before Bulldozer, AMD was taking the "easy way out" by adding more cores instead of chasing single clock speed and IPC. This is the company that was the first to reach 1Ghz, and kept Intel's rapid clock speed advances in check by offering better IPC. I really used to love AMD.

Still got one of the very first 1GHz vapourware Pentium III-unlike AMD's Athlon its unstable as all hell (the 2001 revision fixed stability problems however 1GHz was still the realistic limit)

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, Nicnac said:

I just hope they give you a less flashy skull option... lol

The i7-6700HQ version has an additional cover to replace the flashy skull cover. But yes even I don't like the skull one.

[asus killer]

i didn't get the strategy, they could just put that GPU on one of their one mobile CPU's. Why did it had to be on a intel CPU? i don't get it at all.

[captain_to_fire]

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

i didn't get the strategy, they could just put that GPU on one of their one mobile CPU's. Why did it had to be on a intel CPU? i don't get it at all.

Because AMD doesn't make their own pre-built PCs like Intel

[Nicnac]

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

i didn't get the strategy, they could just put that GPU on one of their one mobile CPU's. Why did it had to be on a intel CPU? i don't get it at all.

They also have their own apu productline. What seems kinda strange though is that the vega unit on these are more powerful than amds own current apus.

[asus killer]

17 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Because AMD doesn't make their own pre-built PCs like Intel

was more discussion the all AMD/Intel aliance, i don't see the upside for AMD.

But in the case of the NUC, they don't sell prebuilds, ok. Why helping the competition? Are NUC's such a big seller that get's AMD so much money from selling the vega GPU?

if Intel wanted the Vega so bad, they could purchase a AMD Ryzen+Vega solution (APU).

[captain_to_fire]

2 minutes ago, asus killer said:

Why helping the competition?

Same can be said for Samsung making chips and display panels for Apple or Amazon providing cloud hosting services to Netflix despite the fact that Prime Video is a direct competitor to Netflix. It's all about the money.

[Silentprototipe]

Honestly I feel this is more a win for AMD. The fact they were able to pull this off and bend Intel to allow them to put Radeon Graphics into Intel CPU's before potentially Nvidia could mean something in the long run

[GoldenLag]

AMD sadly dont have the tech to build the tiny PCI buss between the CPU and the GPU. This is something special seeing as it packs a lot of power in a small formfactor. Something dPU's havent been able to do that well. If AMD were to create a similar device with Ryzen they would need pump non-excisting funds into it. Intel has dug themselves a goldmine, its great to see AMD get a piece of it

[Apepa]

22 minutes ago, silentprototipe said:

Honestly I feel this is more a win for AMD. The fact they were able to pull this off and bend Intel to allow them to put Radeon Graphics into Intel CPU's before potentially Nvidia could mean something in the long run

I believe it was the other way around. Nobody want's to work with Nvidia right now, so the only alternative is AMD.

[Silentprototipe]

5 minutes ago, Apepa said:

I believe it was the other way around. Nobody want's to work with Nvidia right now, so the only alternative is AMD.

Its still rather beneficial for AMD, they get some money from putting their graphics in Intel CPU's and recognition to the mainstream market and even the less tech savvy people that ohh hey Radeon graphics are good i'll buy more products with it (if AMD doesnt fuck it up) 

[Drak3]

AMD's CPU architecture isn't good enough for a Zen+VEGA APU to compete with what is basically a 7700HQ+VEGA outright. It's good enough that AMD can sell their counterparts cheaper and have good enough performance. They basically partially captured a market segment that they couldn't own by themselves.

[Crunchy Dragon]

Welcome to budget cryptocurrency mining featuring Radeon RX Vega integrated graphics