The FCC just KILLED Net Neutrality

[leadeater]

Just now, Hellion said:

So why hasn't the approach of doing what equates to nothing solved the problem then? 

Could you address the problems raised with your suggestion. Also lack of outcome doesn't equal lack of trying, failure is always a possibility. Unfortunately things take time and this whole issue is comparatively new especially from a legal standpoint so wanting a quick solution is not realistic.

 

Some would say getting ISPs classified as Title II was something, not nothing. When this is fully reversed that is a setback to those people but they didn't do nothing. The fact that there is even a debate about it and more people are becoming aware of it also isn't nothing.

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, Hellion said:

Already addressed all of this several times but continue to plug your ears and repeat until your face is red. 

 

That will work. 

If by suggesting the home internet can be replaced with a visit to the library then sure.  But anyone with an ounce of real world experience knows that is not tangible most of the time. 

[leadeater]

Just now, mr moose said:

If by suggesting the home internet can be replaced with a visit to the library then sure.  But anyone with an ounce of real world experience knows that is not tangible most of the time. 

"Sorry but all the computers are in use to day and there are already people in line waiting, come back tomorrow."

"Sorry access to that site has been restricted"

"Internet access at this library costs money" (And is rather expensive)

"Access to these computers is restricted to 30 minutes"

[TheCherryKing]

3 hours ago, Hellion said:

What does this have to do with my post?

 

I'm well aware of what net neutrality is.

 

My point is that the reason it was repealed was because there was no real push back by amuricans crying about it since they would rather complain on the internet then actually partake in actions that send a real message. 

I quoted the wrong person. Sorry.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

"Sorry but all the computers are in use to day and there are already people in line waiting, come back tomorrow."

"Sorry access to that site has been restricted"

"Internet access at this library costs money" (And is rather expensive)

"Access to these computers is restricted to 30 minutes"

I need to put my uni login details or CC details or paypal details into this public computer in order to access an essential service.  No thanks.

 

And this is ignoring the fact that if you have to go to the library to access the internet, then you are admitting the Internet is essential. 

[Hellion]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Could you address the problems raised with your suggestion. Also lack of outcome doesn't equal lack of trying, failure is always a possibility. Unfortunately things take time and this whole issue is comparatively new especially from a legal standpoint so wanting a quick solution is not realistic.

 

Some would say getting ISPs classified as Title II was something, not nothing. When this is fully reversed that is a setback to those people but they didn't do nothing. The fact that there is even a debate about it and more people are becoming aware of it also isn't nothing.

What would you like me to address that I haven't already?

 

You've implied several times that if you were in this situation you would prioritize the convenience of having personal internet access over making a temporary sacrifice to boycott a corporation that only cares about money.

 

I actually have no problem with you criticizing my suggestion that's been proven to work given enough support (there's a reason union workers go on strike) but you have done so while providing no suggestions yourself, let alone one that's better or with a higher success rate.

 

Title II was a theoretical solution, although depending on who you ask, some will say it was only a facade. That being said, I'm talking about now. Currently, I know of nothing else that's taking place to counter the issue other then a vocal minority complaining over the internet they claim is going to be ruined. Awareness is great but unless someone does something a population knowing about a problem does nothing to fix it.

 

Or is your solution to sit on your hands and hope someone else steps up? Maybe start a prayer service? 

[Hellion]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I need to put my uni login details or CC details or paypal details into this public computer in order to access an essential service.  No thanks.

 

And this is ignoring the fact that if you have to go to the library to access the internet, then you are admitting the Internet is essential. 

What essential service do you require that the only payment method is online? 

[Theminecraftaddict555]

13 minutes ago, leadeater said:

"Sorry but all the computers are in use to day and there are already people in line waiting, come back tomorrow."

"Sorry access to that site has been restricted"

"Internet access at this library costs money" (And is rather expensive)

"Access to these computers is restricted to 30 minutes"

I have been through that situation before

[JoostinOnline]

2 minutes ago, Hellion said:

What essential service do you require that the only payment method is online? 

Just about any online service.  And that includes Floatplane (although I'm not subscribed since i'm saving money).

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, Hellion said:

What would you like me to address that I haven't already?

Specifically the issues I raised in this comment, https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/873267-the-fcc-just-killed-net-neutrality/?do=findComment&comment=10840348, and other actual life issues I raised in other comments.

 

All you've done is dismiss them and not actually responded to the impact of such issues. Those are not convenience issues or trivial problems. Not getting an interview at all is a serious issue, what is your reply to this? Do you think limiting your job opportunities is worth it for maybe better internet access? Do you think giving up your preferred career is worth it?

 

What is your solution to businesses that expect you to have immediate or quickly and easily accessible internet access?

 

None of these are convenience issues.

 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

Just about any online service.  And that includes Floatplane (although I'm not subscribed since i'm saving money).

So basically, non essentials.

[leadeater]

Just now, JoostinOnline said:

Just about any online service.  And that includes Floatplane (although I'm not subscribed since i'm saving money).

I think we can all agree FloatPlane is an essential service 

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Hellion said:

What essential service do you require that the only payment method is online? 

Access to peer review journals for school, software,  purchasing materials orders for business, organizing couriers.  It's not just about payment (although good luck purchasing anything online if you have to post a cheque and wait for it to clear before they even send the product), it's about being able to carry out all your necessary online tasks from a secure pc.   

[JoostinOnline]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

So basically, non essentials.

Sorry, I missed the "essential" part of that sentence.

 

Internet access on its own is essential now though.  Almost every single job in the US relies on it.

[Drak3]

Just now, JoostinOnline said:

Almost every single job in the US relies on it.

People keep saying that.

[JoostinOnline]

Just now, Drak3 said:

People keep saying that.

Well I'm not super interested in reading through 325 posts, but I'm not surprised.  It's like electricity, or any other utility.  Yes, you can survive without it.  Not having Internet/electricity would drastically change the lives of everyone though.  Whenever my Internet goes down, I'm unable to do a lot of my work. especially anything that involves research.

[leadeater]

Just now, JoostinOnline said:

Internet access on its own is essential now though.  Almost every single job in the US relies on it.

 

Just now, Drak3 said:

People keep saying that.

 

There is a significant proportion that doesn't, manual labor jobs are prime candidates. However applying for some of them might require internet access.

 

I don't think you need internet access to hammer nails in or pour concrete but someone in the business does to organise it though.

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

People keep saying that.

Just about every single self employed person needs internet access.  I dare say there is a good portion of managerial positions that have after hours work included in the contract. If you are a sales rep or you're on a commission based salary/wage then internet access 24/7 is necessary too.   Whilst there might be a lot of factory workers and retail staff that don't require internet to maintain their job, they only make a portion of the job types out there and may still need it to get the job in the first place.

 

On a note of education, My son's school does not do paper,  everything is online,  ordering the books, payment, communication between staff and parents, reports, all student necessary accounts like apple accounts for the Ipads and adobe/MS accounts for software.   I cannot send him there without a home internet connection,  many schools are going in that direction.  If people are seriously thinking the school I choose for my son is about convenience then they really don't understand how real life works.

 

 

[JoostinOnline]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

I don't think you need internet access to hammer nails in or pour concrete but someone in the business does to organise it though.I

That's what I mean.  Manual labor itself doesn't require Internet access, but things like organization, advertising, and communication usually does.  My grandpa is a realtor.  At first look, you wouldn't think he needs Internet access.  He certainly didn't used to.  But with so many programs going to the cloud, he can't show houses without it.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

Not having Internet/electricity would drastically change the lives of everyone though.

Not having electricity means no refrigeration and no electric based heat in the winter.

 

Not having internet means you can't apply for easy, cushy job across town, use your unnecessary ADT rippoff, and get porn on demand. With relative ease, one could get a job in construction, temporary labor, franchised restuarant like Taco Bell, Dominoes, Pizza Hut, McDonalds, Sonic, Freddy Steakburgers, Popeyes, KFC, and about a thousand mom and pop businesses that can't afford the paid eboards, and understand that not everyone has internet.

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

However applying for some of them might require internet access.

You'd be surprised about how many don't. I wasn't, but then again, I've never, and will never, view home internet access as anything more than a luxury, because that is exactly what it is.

 

7 minutes ago, leadeater said:

someone in the business does to organise it though.

That doesn't constitute a home internet connection as being even remotely necessary. Commercial internet access, yes.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

That doesn't constitute a home internet connection as being even remotely necessary. Commercial internet access, yes.

I was just thinking about editing my post and clarifying that, but essentially yes I do agree with you that there is a large portion of jobs that do not require internet access for the worker. Was actually the point I was trying to make, clearly rather poorly.

[JoostinOnline]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Not having internet means you can't apply for easy, cushy job across town, use your unnecessary ADT rippoff, and get porn on demand. With relative ease, one could get a job in construction, temporary labor, franchised restuarant like Taco Bell, Dominoes, Pizza Hut, McDonalds, Sonic, Freddy Steakburgers, Popeyes, KFC, and about a thousand mom and pop businesses that can't afford the paid eboards, and understand that not everyone has internet.

And you think those companies don't need Internet?

 

When I said " Almost every single job in the US relies on it", I didn't just mean home Internet access.  If you work from home (or are self-employed), you need home Internet access.  If you work at another location, that location needs Internet access.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

That's what I mean.  Manual labor itself doesn't require Internet access, but things like organization, advertising, and communication usually does.  My grandpa is a realtor.  At first look, you wouldn't think he needs Internet access.  He certainly didn't used to.  But with so many programs going to the cloud, he can't show houses without it.

No one goes to a shop anymore, if you want to sell a house it has to be listed on one of the major domain/real-estate websites.   Same with renting.  I don't know the last time anyone told me they were heading into town to find an apartment or house. 

 

The writing is on the wall, everything is heading to the internet.  a quick google search shows that it is not just UN rhetoric or the occasional goivernment/social lobby group, it is an essential service and everyone is saying the same thing except the FCC.  You only have to look at phone boxes and ATM's.  There are fewer and fewer of them because everyone has mobile phones now,  there are less atm's because you can use your card at nearly every shop.  Pretty soon you will have to have internet in the same way you have to have a bank account and card.

[leadeater]

13 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Not having internet means you can't apply for easy, cushy job across town, use your unnecessary ADT rippoff, and get porn on demand. With relative ease, one could get a job in construction, temporary labor, franchised restuarant like Taco Bell, Dominoes, Pizza Hut, McDonalds, Sonic, Freddy Steakburgers, Popeyes, KFC, and about a thousand mom and pop businesses that can't afford the paid eboards, and understand that not everyone has internet.

A lot of these jobs are often not classified as a career though, unless you enter the management side of the business and then it is highly likely you will need home internet access. You'll also either need a degree or to complete training courses outside of your working hours and will most likely be online courses that you are supposed to do at home.

 

The higher skilled the labor the more likely you need home internet access, not everyone will and not every person is the same and has the same job aspirations and requirements.

 

There are also people in high up management positions that rarely use home internet but they got to those positions before internet access was so prevalent and likely have personal assistants to do certain tasks for them or the business is willing to let the person continue to work the way they wish because they are a valued and productive member of the business.  

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I was just thinking about editing my post and clarifying that, but essentially yes I do agree with you that there is a large portion of jobs that do not require internet access for the worker. Was actually the point I was trying to make, clearly rather poorly.

Unless the worker receives all his instructions, locations and payslips by email.  Many construction workers are also self employed and only contract to the builder, they have to have access to email and online accounts at home to manage that.  And lets not forget the old rhetoric going around about employers not employing you unless they can check your facebook account. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/08/06/beware-tech-abandoners-people-without-facebook-accounts-are-suspicious/#1a0189238f95