"JPMorgan Files Patent Application On 'Bitcoin Killer'" - Their title, not mine.

[Vitalius]

Thread at /.

 

Velcroman1 writes:
 

 

"Banking giant JPMorgan Chase has filed a patent application for an electronic commerce system that sounds remarkably like Bitcoin — but never mentions the controversial, Internet-only currency. The patent application was filed in early August but made publicly available only at the end of November; it describes a 'method and system for processing Internet payments using the electronic funds transfer network.' The system would allow people to pay bills anonymously over the Internet through an electronic transfer of funds — just like Bitcoin. It would allow for micropayments without processing fees — just like bitcoin. And it could kill off wire transfers through companies like Western Union — just like Bitcoin. There are 18,126 words in the patent application. 'Bitcoin' is not one of them."

Oh God. No no no. Stop it. You bastard (I imagine JP Morgan as a single man because it sounds like a man's name.).

... Not sure how this is going to affect BTC. They say "Bitcoin Killer", but at the same time, I think BTC would still be popular as it is a way to directly keep your money out of corporations' hands. Whereas, this is not. Even if it is "anonymous", it isn't anonymous from their perspective (the organization handling the transfers).

But I just don't know....

Not good. Not good at all. For BTC at least, price-wise. 

Why this didn't already exist before the crypto-craze (my name, not theirs), I have no idea. 

What do you guys think?

NOTE: The Boldened part of that quote is incorrect. Bitcoins are not anonymous (though they appear to be), if you work hard enough, and they do have transaction fees. 

Also, you can't mine this, obviously. Which is why I think BTC will remain popular even with options like this arising.

Interesting comment:

By "Overzeetop":
 

Something is wrong with the entire system when a financial company is awarded a patent.

... I kind of agree there. It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Mooshi]

I closed my Chase account because they were greedy bastards with the fees. JPMorgan can get wrecked.

[Barnacules]

I bet they call them ByteCoins

[Tea1337]

Just no JPMorgan, Just. No. Don't try to take over an electronic currency.

[TopWargamer]

Chase, please, screw off.

[James_AJ]

JPMorgan the evil in America... pure f***ing evil (not just this... they screw over poor people's life savings)

[EvilLemur]

Guess this explains why they were hacked 

http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/12/hack-on-jpmorgan-website-exposes-data-for-465000-card-holders/

[ionbasa]

Why is this bad? Finally banking institutions can transfer money amongst themselfs w/o fees involved or a long turn around time.

 

You guys should be happy, think about it, being able to send money to someone w/o a fee involved.

 

EG:

Transferring money to loved ones overseas, in different banks using different national currencies.

Parents funding college student's bank account w/o having to be with the same banking institution.

Would not face drastic price fluctuations like BTC, LTC, etc.

[Fetzie]

Why is this bad? Finally banking institutions can transfer money amongst themselfs w/o fees involved or a long turn around time.

 

You guys should be happy, think about it, being able to send money to someone w/o a fee involved.

 

EG:

Transferring money to loved ones overseas, in different banks using different national currencies.

Parents funding college student's bank account w/o having to be with the same banking institution.

Would not face drastic price fluctuations like BTC, LTC, etc.

 

Did you know that banks in the EU can do that from next year without "bitcoin"? They are removing transfer fees.

[ionbasa]

Did you know that banks in the EU can do that from next year without "bitcoin"? They are removing transfer fees.

I was being specific to the US. And to the fact that this won't be the case for overseas transfers.

Also the JP Morgan patent does not involve "bitcoins".

 

The reason I am somewhat bothered by this thread is that so far it seems as if everyone has been over-reacting. I bet less than half the people in this thread didn't read the original article published by FOX  :huh:

 

I also have issues with FOX's report in that:

• It is sensationalist
• Sways from the facts in order to grab peoples attention
• Sensationalist headline
• not quality journalism 

In my opinion.

[TechFan@ic]

When big banks get involved is when all hell breaks loose.

[ionbasa]

When big banks get involved is when all hell breaks loose.

This has nothing to do with bitcoin. JP Morgan merely patented an commercial implementation of funds transfer that is similar to current crypto-currencies, but can be used between financial institutions on a wide scale without all of the downfalls of current crypto-currencies.

[TechFan@ic]

This has nothing to do with bitcoin. JP Morgan merely patented an commercial implementation of funds transfer that is similar to current crypto-currencies, but can be used between financial institutions on a wide scale without all of the downfalls of current crypto-currencies.

How does this has nothing to do with bitcoin ? they basically made they're own bitcoin inspired crypto-currency.

But since it's a mega-bank expect all sorts of regulation and not a whole lot of anonymity, which defeats the sole purpose of crypto-currencies.

[ionbasa]

How does this has nothing to do with bitcoin ? they basically made they're own bitcoin inspired crypto-currency.

But since it's a mega-bank expect all sorts of regulation and not a whole lot of anonymity, which defeats the sole purpose of crypto-currencies.

First; read the patent:

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20130317984&OS=20130317984&RS=20130317984

 

They did not develop a crypto-currency, mainly a new way of using the already existing EFT.

[Giddyguy]

Oh God. No no no. Stop it. You bastard (I imagine JP Morgan as a single man because it sounds like a man's name.).

 

JP Morgan was a man, in fact one of the most richest men in history. At one point he singlehandedly saved the US economy, while making a profit.

[TechFan@ic]

First; read the patent:

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20130317984&OS=20130317984&RS=20130317984

 

They did not develop a crypto-currency, mainly a new way of using the already existing EFT.

 

Embodiments of the invention include a method and system for conducting financial transactions over a payment network. The method may include associating a payment address of an account with an account holder name, the account residing at a financial institution and the associated payment address of the account configured to allow withdrawals by the account holder only and to allow a plurality of deposits to be made at different times. The method further includes freely publishing the payment address and making it available to users of an internet portal or search engine. The method further includes receiving data over a network identifying a deposit to be made to the account, assigning the deposit to the account using the payment address, and notifying the payer of the assignment. At least one directory is used for associating the account holder with the payment address.

 

This is exactly what a crypto currency is.

[ionbasa]

This is exactly what a crypto currency is.

By that logic the debit card I have in my wallet is a crypto-currency, along with my paypal and google wallet, and anything I pay online using my debit card numbers, no?

[TechFan@ic]

By that logic the debit card I have in my wallet is a crypto-currency, along with my paypal and google wallet, and anything I pay online using my debit card numbers, no?

No, because your credit or debit card number is private, however your BTC or LTC wallet address is not, and JPMorgan states.

 

The method further includes freely publishing the payment address and making it available to users of an internet portal or search engine.

[ionbasa]

No, because your credit or debit card number is private, however your BTC or LTC wallet address is not, and JPMorgan states.

 

Yes and no, because debit cards and credit cards still transfer monies using the EFT between institutions, only the actual card number, like you said, should be secret. But other information like bank routing numbers are semi-public. But you do agree that paying with paypal is a crypto-curency when using their online invoicing which only requires an email address as identification? What about google wallet, all you need is an email address to send money to somebody.

 

I would argue an e-mail address is public. 

 

However since btc addresses are public doesn't that defy your previous claim that btc/letc/ect. are anonymous? 

 

Don't think i'm a crypto-curency hater, I'm not. As a matter of fact I bought an Amazon gift card through gyft using my coins a month ago.

[mgsstar]

This is pretty exciting imo. Most people are probably going to jump for it because of what they saw on bitcoins.

[mr moose]

funny, I always thought you could only patent something that wasn't already evidently in existence. A bit like trying to claim infringement on a patent in time before the patent existed.

[onionring]

funny, I always thought you could only patent something that wasn't already evidently in existence. A bit like trying to claim infringement on a patent in time before the patent existed.

 

Of course not!

How would Apple do any business if patenting things other people made wasn t possible?

They patented things other people made before they could (square with rounded corners comes to mind)

and then preventing the other guys from using what they made.

 

... Seriously, you could patent a thing identical to something else (like bitcoin) before the creator did and it would make it you own

and you could sue the current user of the thing (bitcoin) saying it s a patent infringment and either shut them down/get loads of money/both.

[Zeo2002]

This is not exactly like Bitcoin - it's remarkably similar to, but not Bitcoin. First, by anonymous, that anonymity may only stand to the person who you are doing the transaction with. In this case, the "host" server is most likely a bank computer that says "Hey, this guy is using a one time address linked to X account to transfer money out. Does he have it in X account, yes? Alright, lets transfer the funds to Y." Now, Y may be within the same bank or it may not, but it'll act just like any normal transfer of funds (ACH) except faster. For Bitcoin, technically everything is public... but proving who it actually is extremely difficult until they deposit or withdraw funds.

 

We already have a system like this with billpayments, I can set up my bank to automatically see my bills and pay them - hell if I were nice enough and had the information, I could see and pay my girlfriends bills as well, the utility companies don't care who pays it, as long as the account gets paid. To me, this is a good thing to help eliminate some fees. Of course, you'll probably need some sort of account standing or pay a monthly fee to use this new patented "feature"...

[RuecanOnRails]

Patent was first filed over a decade ago. Not a Bitcoin killer, has next to nothing in common with Bitcoin. Instead it's closer to re-inventing Paypal...

http://www.businessinsider.com/debunking-jp-morgan-bitcoin-2013-12

 

If anything this will be used for patent trolling against exchanges and companies such as Bitpay who offer services for merchants. They can't exactly sue Bitcoin seeing as it's not a company nor controlled by anyone... It's like pointing a gun at math and expecting a different answer.