Feminists outraged by the word "him" in open source project's comments, makes main developer leave

[joshuamurphy]

Ohhh my gosh. What a waste of time and now they have lost a maintainer. What a waste

[LAwLz]

I think the world is actually kind of doomed with its current view of equality. Men and Woman are supposed to be equal, yet woman just freak out whenever someone hints at anything sexist towards them and they end up with the upper hand in regards to just about everything.

I really hate woman because of that. Like why do the females I work with get to wear what ever shoes they want but I only get to wear dress shoes like im told? Isnt that sexist??

Hey hey. Let's make one thing clear, when you say "females" you are probably referring to the modern pseudo-feminist. Don't hate all women because of the actions of few. The shoe this is sexism though, because you say "you are a male/female so therefore you can/can't do X".

One issue is that "they" is plural, and therefore is often not grammatically correct when it replaces "he" or "she".

 

just saying.

He addressed this on his blog:

"Personally, I'm comforted by the knowledge that even if I'm wrong about the grammar, I won't have made anyone feel excluded."

Obviously I can't speak for all women, but I have never been offended when someone has referred to me as a "her".

[alpenwasser]

One issue is that "they" is plural, and therefore is often not grammatically correct when it replaces "he" or "she".

 

just saying.

 

That's a matter of opinion. Some won't accept it iirc.

 

Just like "his/her" is not as correct as "his or her"

Funny you should mention this, they spent a huge part of their thread on the topic.

Personally, I think it's probably one of the less awkward solutions to the problem

of gendered pronouns, aside from just using a passive sentence (which I prefer where

possible). "One" just sounds too... stuffy to have it pop up in source code everywhere,

and always using both pronouns is a bit unwieldy IMO.

That's the fun thing with English: Since there's no centralized regulating body

like for example in French, issues like this one (and of course many others)

are unlikely to ever be resolved in a definite manner. Instead we get to debate and

get to call others names in the name of our supposedly superior, but still more or

less arbitrary, viewpoints!

Since the reform of German orthography (started 1996) we've had similar debates in

German as well (we also lack a proper central authority on the subject). Previously,

things were pretty clear, with the Duden (roughly our equivalent of the Oxford dictionary)

being the measure of things and actually lawfully binding, but since then that's no

longer the case, so now everyone can choose to do their own thing should they wish

(for example, several press outlets and newspapers in Switzerland have made up their

own rules, mostly because they dislike many of the new ones).

Things have settled down by now for the most part, but for a few years there you would

have thought that there was going to be proper sloat-slitting among our linguists. :lol:

Anyway, one thing this debacle nicely demonstrates is that clearly there's a lot of

work left to do, because apparently it's still not really possible to have any sort

of level-headed discussion about this on the internet, even amongst supposedly smart

people. *sigh*

EDIT:

By the way, having read through almost the entire thread on github, I think the title

for this topic is incorrect. Nobody was outraged by the use of gendered pronouns in

source code, the feces only really hit the ventilation device with the dev's refusal

to accept the patch and labeling it as "trivial". At least as far as I can tell.

[dark-D]

how stupid and trivial. there is no equal rights for people as we are not equal.

also if they are stupid enough in the thread they should use "it", problem solved.

and that moron who was offended should code for the other guy. programmers don't grow on trees, there is a short supply as it is.

[MatheusSanzo]

The company decision on make that reply and merge the code was stupid.

 

But I think they got what they deserved with this, they have lost the main developer of the project.

[Vitalius]

it was never actually there, it's always been artificially implanted.

If it was artificially implanted, it was there. *sigh* I wish society hadn't forgot how to teach it.

[Night]

Hey hey. Let's make one thing clear, when you say "females" you are probably referring to the modern pseudo-feminist. Don't hate all women because of the actions of few. The shoe this is sexism though, because you say "you are a male/female so therefore you can/can't do X".

He addressed this on his blog:

"Personally, I'm comforted by the knowledge that even if I'm wrong about the grammar, I won't have made anyone feel excluded."

Obviously I can't speak for all women, but I have never been offended when someone has referred to me as a "her".

Lol, They all group together though and gang up on people when something is "sexist" even if its not. Not just the females I work with but like every female ive ever encountered.

[Lord Pantaloons]

stupid to the nth fking degree

[LAwLz]

Lol, They all group together though and gang up on people when something is "sexist" even if its not. Not just the females I work with but like every female ive ever encountered.

You've probably just been unlucky then. There are a lot of very reasonable and respectable women out there. From what I've seen, the "feminazis" are very rare and (luckily) mostly exist on the Internet. Guess it depends where you live as well. I still think it's very unfair to say that all women are like that. I am sure a lot of women will agree that not changing "he" to "them" is a trivial thing and not worth calling someone pathetic or fire someone over.

 

 

 

 EDIT:

By the way, having read through almost the entire thread on github, I think the title

for this topic is incorrect. Nobody was outraged by the use of gendered pronouns in

source code, the feces only really hit the ventilation device with the dev's refusal

to accept the patch and labeling it as "trivial". At least as far as I can tell.

I guess that's true. Nobody was angry until the patch got declined.

[alpenwasser]

You've probably just been unlucky then. There are a lot of very reasonable and respectable women out there. From what I've seen, the "feminazis" are very rare and (luckily) mostly exist on the Internet. Guess it depends where you live as well. I still think it's very unfair to say that all women are like that. I am sure a lot of women will agree that not changing "he" to "them" is a trivial thing and not worth calling someone pathetic or fire someone over.

I have actually yet to meet a woman which could be labeled as a radical feminist/"feminazi".

And yes, I'd agree that internet anonymity has a tendency to bring out the nasty side

of people, but that goes not just for feminists, but also for male chauvinists, racists,

religios fanatics, conspiracy nuts, pseudo-scientific idiots and so on, it's just the

nature of things. If you remove accountability from the equation, some people will

get very loud and nasty, thus drowning out the (usually) more reasonable and moderate

majority.

Even the girls I met in my college courses, who, with engineering being a rather

male-dominated field, might be expected to have at least a few more radically inclined

people among them, were not at all like that.

Just my personal experience.

 

I guess that's true. Nobody was angry until the patch got declined.

If you wish to change it, you can do so by editing the first post in advanced mode,

just FYI.

[LAwLz]

I have actually yet to meet a woman which could be labeled as a radical feminist/"feminazi".

The feminist party here in Sweden have had some extremely stupid ideas that they have tried to get passed. For example they suggested that all men should pay a special "male-tax" because the average male earns more than the average female. They also suggested another tax which all men should pay in order to, and I quote (well, quote and translate from Swedish) "take joint financial responsibility for the violence that affects women". Luckily barely anyone voted for them so they couldn't do anything. I haven't met anyone in person either, but they are out there. The same political party I talked about earlier demonstrated by setting fire to 100,000 SEK (about 15,000 USD) on the streets a few years ago (thus showing that they clearly should not get any of our tax money, because they are OK with literally burning it up).

 

It's like you said though, it's a vocal minority.

Not sure what to change the title to. Will just leave it as it is for now.

[Art Vandelay]

One issue is that "they" is plural, and therefore is often not grammatically correct when it replaces "he" or "she".

 

just saying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

 

It sounds awful, but it's debatably correct.

[Mentalguy]

Someone on GitHub found a comment in the source code that used the word "he" and changed it to "they" to avoid using gender specific words. He submitted a pull request without specifying what modules he changed nor did he sign a CLA (which proper pull requests should include).

 

One of the main developers, called bnoordhuis, replied with "Sorry, not interested in trivial changes like that" and denied the patch, and the thread freaked out calling him a "douche", "fucking pathetic" and "sexist". The patch was then pushed through to the company that owns the project (the project being node.js) where a person from the company said that if bnoordhuis had worked for him, he would have been fired. Wanna know why he couldn't be fired? Because bnoordhuis has written ~30% of the code in the project for free. The only reason he couldn't get fired was because he was working for free, and after this he decided to leave the project. It's worth noting that most people outraged by the word "him" instead of the gender neutral "they" are guys by the way.

 

If anyone want to read the the pull request as well as the comments, you can read them here: GitHub

 

 

It's not about equality, it's about getting what they want. It is the same thing about getting whites to pay "slave reparations".

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

 

It sounds awful, but it's debatably correct.

sometimes "they" just sounds better.

"A person walks into a bar, they bought a drink."

[Art Vandelay]

sometimes "they" just sounds better.

"A person walks into a bar, they bought a drink."

They sounds a cit clumsy in that sentence. I would have expected a he.

 

They can sometimes work better than alternatives, but it's only in a very rare contexts. It just sounds awkward normally.

[Mentalguy]

They sounds a cit clumsy in that sentence. I would have expected a he.

you dont know the sex though. With what they were trying to in the OP, it's correct. But, nobody really gives a fuck.

[StitchMonkey]

How about "it"  that is gender neutral and fewer syllables?  I say they should have changed "him" to "it" and been done with it.

[Mentalguy]

How about "it"  that is gender neutral and fewer syllables?  I say they should have changed "him" to "it" and been done with it.

the feminists would love that.

[flibberdipper]

Sometimes I wish people has a "reset" switch under their armpit. Why armpit? I dunno.

[Mentalguy]

Sometimes I wish people has a "reset" switch under their armpit. Why armpit? I dunno.

Under the armpit, that's where bra straps go. You're sexist.

[MeltyMoon]

All of this gender screaming, punching, crying, kicking, crap needs to end. People need to stop acting like they're 12, and realize how insignificant they are in life. No on cares that you are offended in the big picture, if it bothers you, ignore it and move on.... I remember being pissed off at everyone in the thread discussing Linus making gay jokes, like honestly....Who cares? 

[Purple]

How about "it"  that is gender neutral and fewer syllables?  I say they should have changed "him" to "it" and been done with it.

But then they'll just say:

 

"B-but I'm a human being! :("

[flibberdipper]

Under the armpit, that's where bra straps go. You're sexist.

Fine. The nose.

[beebskadoo]

All of this gender screaming, punching, crying, kicking, crap needs to end. People need to stop acting like they're 12, and realize how insignificant they are in life. No on cares that you are offended in the big picture, if it bothers you, ignore it and move on.... I remember being pissed off at everyone in the thread discussing Linus making gay jokes, like honestly....Who cares? 

See, I understand where you are coming from, BUT you are missing the point a bit. People have rights and equality is the goal. That's the idea of feminism, when people think of feminism they think of radical Female>Male activists when that isn't what feminism is about. The word feminism has a stigma associated with it because a few bad apples. just my 2 cents.

[Art Vandelay]

Fine. The nose.

Usually if you punch them in the nose, they stop complaining.

 

They call the police, though.

[MeltyMoon]

See, I understand where you are coming from, BUT you are missing the point a bit. People have rights and equality is the goal. That's the idea of feminism, when people think of feminism they think of radical Female>Male activists when that isn't what feminism is about. The word feminism has a stigma associated with it because a few bad apples. just my 2 cents.

This idea can be applied to almost anything though. I'm tired of people crying over race issues for example. Imagine how much simpler life would be if no one had to worry about being politically correct. Some of the stuff we hear about is just ridiculous. Everyone gets made fun of, why should you be any different? I completely agree with having rights, but I feel that if a group of people aren't being denied any of their basic rights, they should really grow up when it comes to verbal speech. We see stories like this all the time, and quite frankly, it's disgusting.

Something like segregation (just an example) is totally different though. I'm trying to limit this to just verbal and maybe textual issues.