M.2 NVMe SSD raid 0 on X58. Can that be done?

[Intelfreak]

I have just got my M.2 NVMe SSD up and running on my X58 system not so long a go, but that made me think of raid 0 aswell.

Have any one tryed out raid 0 with two M.2 NVMe SSD on a X58 system?

[daweakling]

I recently was planning on doing this for my next build. I spoke to a Microcenter employee about my plan and he degraded to idea. He told me it is not worth the money and you are shortening the life span of the drives. He also mentioned the performance increase is not even noticeable. Not sure if that is true. I didn't do any research yet so I cannot comment. 

[Intelfreak]

4 minutes ago, sebastiansulb said:

I recently was planning on doing this for my next build. I spoke to a Microcenter employee about my plan and he degraded to idea. He told me it is not worth the money and you are shortening the life span of the drives. He also mentioned the performance increase is not even noticeable. Not sure if that is true. I didn't do any research yet so I cannot comment. 

Dosent sound promising then. Will have to dig in some more about these.

 

Have any other some thing to say to this?

[done12many2]

21 minutes ago, Intelfreak said:

I have just got my M.2 NVMe SSD up and running on my X58 system not so long a go, but that made me think of raid 0 aswell.

Have any one tryed out raid 0 with two M.2 NVMe SSD on a X58 system?

 

You'll need to do a software based RAID 0 through Windows.  Obviously, it won't boot since it's software and not hardware RAID, but it will be fast.  Below is a screenshot of two 512GB 950 Pro NVMe drive in a software RAID 0.  No difference in speed when compared to hardware RAID.  Just not bootable.

 

17 minutes ago, sebastiansulb said:

I recently was planning on doing this for my next build. I spoke to a Microcenter employee about my plan and he degraded to idea. He told me it is not worth the money and you are shortening the life span of the drives. He also mentioned the performance increase is not even noticeable. Not sure if that is true. I didn't do any research yet so I cannot comment. 

 

I'd suggest that you not bother talking with that particular sales rep from Microcenter again as he doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about.  

 

Depending on the RAID configuration and use case, RAID can actually extend the life of the drives.  As far as if you'd notice, well that depends.  If you do a lot of large sequential reads and writes, then yes, it is absolutely noticeable. 

 

 

[done12many2]

dupe

[m0k]

nvme drives just like sata drives can be setup to run in RAID. 

 

However, its honestly a waste of money, you wont see any benefit in real world performance.

 

Even video editors who works with large RAW 8K files are more than satisfied with SATA and NVME drives in a single drive config.

[daweakling]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

I'd suggest that you not bother talking with that particular sale rep from Microcenter again as he doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about.  

 

[XenosTech]

19 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

Depending on the RAID configuration and use case, RAID can actually extend the life of the drives.  As far as if you'd notice, well that depends.  If you do a lot of large sequential reads and writes, then yes, it is absolutely noticeable. 

Well RAID 0 is pretty harsh on SSD's tbh unless you're using enterprise grade drives.

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, XenosTech said:

Well RAID 0 is pretty harsh on SSD's tbh unless you're using enterprise grade drives.

 

How so?

 

[Intelfreak]

"You'll need to do a software based RAID 0 through Windows.  Obviously, it won't boot since it's software and not hardware RAID, but it will be fast.  Below is a screenshot of two 512GB 950 Pro NVMe drive in a software RAID 0.  No difference in speed when compared to hardware RAID.  Just not bootable."

 

Oh good god no not software based raid. I have tried software based raid on sata with HDD and when it comes to speed it sucks and the facts its not bootable is not making things better. Hardware raid is the only right thing to do, i was thing king of a M.2 PCIe adaptor with two M.2 slots and raid support so its hardware based raid. So i set it up throw bios and not in windows or is that not possible with M.2 SSD as it is with sata HDD/SSD?

 

Its Samsung 950 PRO 256 GB i have now by the way.

 

screenshot dosent work for me?

 

Well i will make it clear. If only software based raid is possible i will not waste my time with it any more. Hardware raid is the only raid i will be using my time on cause it has to be bootable also else its not usable for me.

[XenosTech]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

How so?

 

SSD's constantly move around data from cell to cell so that the cells wear out evenly.... RAID 0 strips down that data even more so there's more movement of data on the SSD. Then there's the fact that most consumer SSD's are either MLC or TLC which have decentish life spans as long as you don't fill them to capacity on a regular basis.

[done12many2]

Just now, Intelfreak said:

Oh good god no not software based raid. I have tried software based raid on sata with HDD and when it comes to speed it sucks and the facts its not bootable is not making things better. Hardware raid is the only right thing to do, i was thing king of a M.2 PCIe adaptor with two M.2 slots and raid support so its hardware based raid. So i set it up throw bios and not in windows or is that not possible with M.2 SSD as it is with sata HDD/SSD?

 

Well you can't run NVMe hardware RAID on a x58 so good luck with that.  Trust me when I say there is little to no difference with regards to performance between software and hardware RAID these days in consumer platforms.  

 

4 minutes ago, Intelfreak said:

Well i will make it clear. If only software based raid is possible i will not waste my time with it any more. Hardware raid is the only raid i will be using my time on cause it has to be bootable also else its not usable for me.

 

Sounds like you won't be doing RAID.  

[daweakling]

1 minute ago, XenosTech said:

SSD's constantly move around data from cell to cell so that the cells wear out evenly.... RAID 0 strips down that data even more so there's more movement of data on the SSD. Then there's the fact that most consumer SSD's are either MLC or TLC which have decentish life spans as long as you don't fill them to capacity on a regular basis.

The Microcenter employee also mentioned that, but I forgot to say. 

[Electronics Wizardy]

2 minutes ago, Intelfreak said:

"You'll need to do a software based RAID 0 through Windows.  Obviously, it won't boot since it's software and not hardware RAID, but it will be fast.  Below is a screenshot of two 512GB 950 Pro NVMe drive in a software RAID 0.  No difference in speed when compared to hardware RAID.  Just not bootable."

 

Oh good god no not software based raid. I have tried software based raid on sata with HDD and when it comes to speed it sucks and the facts its not bootable is not making things better. Hardware raid is the only right thing to do, i was thing king of a M.2 PCIe adaptor with two M.2 slots and raid support so its hardware based raid. So i set it up throw bios and not in windows or is that not possible with M.2 SSD as it is with sata HDD/SSD?

 

Its Samsung 950 PRO 256 GB i have now by the way.

 

screenshot dosent work for me?

 

Well i will make it clear. If only software based raid is possible i will not waste my time with it any more. Hardware raid is the only raid i will be using my time on cause it has to be bootable also else its not usable for me.

I'd you want hardware raid of nvme drives your buying a lsi 9400 card and spending about 600+ for good performance. 

 

For software raid it's not better than hardware raid if done right like with zfs btrfs or storage spaces and supports many more features like snapshots and checksums. 

 

Motherboard raid isn't hardware raid and is just a hacky software solution that sucks. 

 

You can boot into software raid. Just put /boot and the boot loader on a Separate partition and your good. 

[done12many2]

8 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

SSD's constantly move around data from cell to cell so that the cells wear out evenly.... RAID 0 strips down that data even more so there's more movement of data on the SSD. Then there's the fact that most consumer SSD's are either MLC or TLC which have decentish life spans as long as you don't fill them to capacity on a regular basis.

 

You should also mention that when using RAID 0, only half that data that would be written or read from a single drive is actually written or read from 2 drives in a RAID 0.  So there's that fact.  The SSDs in RAID also run cooler.  

 

7 minutes ago, sebastiansulb said:

The Microcenter employee also mentioned that, but I forgot to say. 

A lot of folks pushing "the sky's falling" type stuff.  

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2856052/grueling-endurance-test-blows-away-ssd-durability-fears.html

 

http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead

 

http://ssdendurancetest.com/

 

[Intelfreak]

4 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

Well you can't run NVMe hardware RAID on a x58 so good luck with that.  Trust me when I say there is little to no difference with regards to performance between software and hardware RAID these days in consumer platforms.  

 

 

Sounds like you won't be doing RAID.  

well i guess you are right. At least my single M.2 SSD can boot and all.

[done12many2]

2 minutes ago, Intelfreak said:

well i guess you are right. At least my single M.2 SSD can boot and all.

 

Nothing wrong with that bud.    Chances are that you would have never noticed the difference unless you had a specific need for it. 

[Intelfreak]

6 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

I'd you want hardware raid of nvme drives your buying a lsi 9400 card and spending about 600+ for good performance. 

 

For software raid it's not better than hardware raid if done right like with zfs btrfs or storage spaces and supports many more features like snapshots and checksums. 

 

Motherboard raid isn't hardware raid and is just a hacky software solution that sucks. 

 

You can boot into software raid. Just put /boot and the boot loader on a Separate partition and your good. 

I see. Well i will not spend 600+ just for raid 2 drives.

 

 

To all: it looks like i shall just stick to one M.2 SSD then and stop there. spending 600+ for that is stupid.

[done12many2]

Just now, Intelfreak said:

spending 600+ for that is stupid.

 

In your case, yes.  For others, maybe not, but either way good luck with the setup. 

[Intelfreak]

2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

Nothing wrong with that bud.    Chances are that you would have never noticed the difference unless you had a specific need for it. 

Specific needs would then be to run OS and games from it.

[XenosTech]

6 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

A lot of folks pushing "the sky's falling" type stuff.  

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2856052/grueling-endurance-test-blows-away-ssd-durability-fears.html

 

http://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead

 

http://ssdendurancetest.com/

 

Not really that's just my observation of pc's I've had to fix in the past and servers I've had to interact with at my last job.

[Intelfreak]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

In your case, yes.  For others, maybe not, but either way good luck with the setup. 

Yes in my case and thanks my old system runs pretty well considered its age.

 

My system runs like this right now. Not that bad, but raid has been more fun throw. oh well a single M.2 is not that bad compared to a single sata SSD.

 

[done12many2]

5 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

Not really that's just my observation of pc's I've had to fix in the past and servers I've had to interact with at my last job.

 

I guess the same can be said the other way around.  I've been running RAID 0 on SSDs since SSDs were even a thing and I've never had one fail let alone as a result of RAID.

 

Saying that RAID 0 is harsh on SSDs is a matter of opinion.  Me saying that it isn't is as well.  

 

Just now, Intelfreak said:

Yes in my case and thanks my old system runs pretty well considered its age.

 

My system runs like this right now. Not that bad, but raid has been more fun throw. oh well a single M.2 is not that bad compared to a single sata SSD.

 

 

Very nice!

 

You need a couple more drives/partitions and you'll be set.  

 

 

[XenosTech]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

I guess the same can be said the other way around.  I've been running RAID 0 on SSDs since SSDs were even a thing and I've never had one fail let alone as a result of RAID.

 

Saying that RAID 0 is harsh on SSDs is a matter of opinion.  Me saying that it isn't is as well.  

Lucky bastard q.q I've had like 4 drives die on me from when I used to just mess around with vms and  used SSD's as their backup location to see how much faster it could run.

I know it's all opinion but I still wouldn't risk it and there really isn't much of a performance boost as compared to if you did it with mechanical drives.

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, XenosTech said:

Lucky bastard q.q I've had like 4 drives die on me from when I used to just mess around with vms and  used SSD's as their backup location to see how much faster it could run.

I know it's all opinion but I still wouldn't risk it and there really isn't much of a performance boost as compared to if you did it with mechanical drives.

 

See signature (storage).  I live on the edge.