AMD making money from ad revenue from installing drivers!?!?

[XenosTech]

1 hour ago, MoonSpot said:

For the most part the hissy fit is fine, throwing shit on my desktop without saying anything isn't cool and is reason enough to vocalize the complaint.  The bigger beef with this thread is people adding their own flavour of complete bullshit trying to make it a bigger deal.  Pretending its a program thats been installed, or that AMD is getting paid for referral ads is just as idiotic a thing to do if not more so.  In doing so they lose credibility and get relegated valley girl drama queen status.

Well this is LTT forums where AMD is like the most hated thing know to man, so drama is to be expected with any AMD topic but I mean it's just an html icon that links you to the page to sign up for the beta... shift + delete is a thing and the icon is gone and it doesn't pop back up once deleted *shrugs* You really can't please people.

[Grinners]

43 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

 *shrugs* You really can't please people.

Please provide your home address and I'll construct a temporary billboard in your living room free of charge without your express permission. I just love pleasing people. 

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

I think what was being pointed out is that people are not changing their argument in light of new information and making accusations that a company is doing something that they have already officially addressed.

 

Also some people are objecting to inflated comparisons that are being used to try and provide a descriptive measure to their point of view. We often need to give comparisons and examples when formulating our point of view but care needs to be take in how you do it otherwise it has the opposite intended effect and detracts the conversation away from the underlying point.

 

Nobody's view is greater or more important than anyone else's, we all have a right to our own opinions but as a forum of discussion everyone also has the right of reply.

 

This is also a forum for civil discussion so I would ask that everyone please tone it down and not make any accusations towards each other e.g.  Intelligence. 

You're right, everyone has the right to an opinion and I think I have been quite forward in pointing that out. The problem here is that those who don't care seem to be promoting the idea that those who where upset by it are only having a tantrum (hissy fit), just hate AMD or don't think about what they respond to.  Not only are these claims sometimes accompanied by insults but that these claims are far from the truth.  With most of the people who said they didn't like it giving only one reason (they don't like having things placed onto their computer without giving permission).   This is a far cry from blind hate/fanboyism.   Having one or two people still talk about money after new information comes to light is hardly a reflection on everyone who didn't like it.

3 hours ago, MoonSpot said:

Well I'd certainly feel better if that were the case, but it hasn't been.  No sir, I've been here wasting time observing the telephone game snowball from the start.  Though considering how it started it was undoubtedly always going to be a snowball started with rocks mixed in.

 

However since you clearly feel that I've not been an invested member of the community in this regard, feel free to enlighten me.  So long as you understand what it means if  someone was thinking while adding their own charges to the error AMD made. 

How it started?  You mean with a report of something that actually happened that a lot of people were unhappy about.  Your whole position rests on people being wrong only because their opinions are not the same as yours.   An article was posted, people discussed it, you didn't like it.  That does not make them wrong or idiotic, it simply means you don't like the outcome or the rational people used to form their opinions.  

[MoonSpot]

52 minutes ago, mr moose said:

How it started?  You mean with a report of something that actually happened that a lot of people were unhappy about.  Your whole position rests on people being wrong only because their opinions are not the same as yours.   An article was posted, people discussed it, you didn't like it.  That does not make them wrong or idiotic, it simply means you don't like the outcome or the rational people used to form their opinions.  

Really.  My whole position is that I just think I'm right and others are wrong, is that it?  Well that's interesting, I had no idea.  Surely not that the quake shortcut in fact isn't some sort of hijackware or program of any kind.  Or that a tinyURL/bit.ly doesn't automagically equate to referral monies, because in this twisted world here it somehow wouldn't AMD approaching ID/Beth/zenimax on bended knee for a co-op.  And absolutely not that people were reaching evermore into tin-foiled hatted absurdity to spin a mustache-twirling tail.

Do you think that maybe some people here might've viewed the article itself with some skepticism?(and yes the OP too.  He's earn it, and you know it.)  Think about it, a referral link to make money.  AMD.

 

I am not saying someone forming a different opinion is idiotic;  but that after getting there straight up making up BS to reinforce IS idiotic.

Moose, I doubt you'd fight me on if a shortcut is even in the same ballpark as stealthy installing software like a virus.  But ya understand the narrative some people were trying to push painting these pictures?  Is the "you didn't like it" part about me even about opinions?

[TOMPPIX]

well since everyone is shitting on amd because they placed a shortcut on your desktop without your permission, i wanna see a shitstorm about this too.

http://blog.sec-consult.com/2017/04/application-whitelisting-application.html

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

Really.  My whole position is that I just think I'm right and others are wrong, is that it?  Well that's interesting, I had no idea.  Surely not that the quake shortcut in fact isn't some sort of hijackware or program of any kind.  Or that a tinyURL/bit.ly doesn't automagically equate to referral monies, because in this twisted world here it somehow wouldn't AMD approaching ID/Beth/zenimax on bended knee for a co-op.  And absolutely not that people were reaching evermore into tin-foiled hatted absurdity to spin a mustache-twirling tail.

Do you think that maybe some people here might've viewed the article itself with some skepticism?(and yes the OP too.  He's earn it, and you know it.)  Think about it, a referral link to make money.  AMD.

 

I am not saying someone forming a different opinion is idiotic;  but that after getting there straight up making up BS to reinforce IS idiotic.

Moose, I doubt you'd fight me on if a shortcut is even in the same ballpark as stealthy installing software like a virus.  But ya understand the narrative some people were trying to push painting these pictures?  Is the "you didn't like it" part about me even about opinions?

One person made the claim it was a PUP,  everyone else has called it for what it is (an unauthorized shortcut). Why are you so adamant that everyone is calling it a program and getting carried away in tin foil hats when it was ever only one person? (maybe one other supported them or liked his posts but not made the same exact claims) 

 

As I have said before, regardless of whether or not the original article is/was accurate, it says what it says and until further information comes to light that and personal experience is all people have to go on.  Apart from that one guy claiming it equaled a PUP, the rest of the discussion was relevant and not an exaggeration. 

Going back through the posts,  it is mainly people who don't agree with how it was placed not what it was. Many have very plainly stated this.  

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, TOMPPIX said:

well since everyone is shitting on amd because they placed a shortcut on your desktop without your permission, i wanna see a shitstorm about this too.

http://blog.sec-consult.com/2017/04/application-whitelisting-application.html

Not everyone is shitting on AMD,  it's just that becasue AMD were the ones who did it this time they are the focus.  But it certainly doesn't read like they don't think anyone else's shit stinks.  I have seen plenty of fingers pointed toward nvidia and MS for similar practices.

[LAwLz]

7 hours ago, leadeater said:

I think what was being pointed out is that people are not changing their argument in light of new information and making accusations that a company is doing something that they have already officially addressed.

I don't see that happening in this thread though. The only people still talking about AMD making money from this or not are the people defending AMD. Everyone else seems to have moved on.

 

7 hours ago, XenosTech said:

Well this is LTT forums where AMD is like the most hated thing know to man, so drama is to be expected with any AMD topic but I mean it's just an html icon that links you to the page to sign up for the beta... shift + delete is a thing and the icon is gone and it doesn't pop back up once deleted *shrugs* You really can't please people.

I often find it to be the exact opposite. I mean, even the people who agree in this thread that what AMD did was shitty are someone stubbornly defending them as if it was their own mother. Just look at all the "What AMD did was shitty but..." posts.

 

1 hour ago, TOMPPIX said:

well since everyone is shitting on amd because they placed a shortcut on your desktop without your permission, i wanna see a shitstorm about this too.

http://blog.sec-consult.com/2017/04/application-whitelisting-application.html

If you want to talk about that then make a new thread about it. Don't try and derail this one please.

 

53 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

How dare they tell you that there's a new game beta by a company with a strong reputation of making good games in that genre.  Those monsters! *slams fist on desk in anger*

I know that you're being sarcastic, but yes I do actually think "how dare AMD bundle ads with their drivers".

It does not matter what studio it is. It's not the shortcut itself that is the problem. The problem is that AMD felt like they could violate their users trust for personal gains by bundling ads with their drivers. But the even bigger problem I see are the people defending this practice, and even goes as far as to tell the people who are upset that they should be quiet, or seek help.

[Valentyn]

I just saw this, and saw how quickly they rectified it. Good on them, but it was a shitty move to begin with.

At least have it as an Opt-In for the Demo/Beta; don't just put link and shortcuts on people's systems. We have enough of that crap do deal with.

[leadeater]

18 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I don't see that happening in this thread though. The only people still talking about AMD making money from this or not are the people defending AMD. Everyone else seems to have moved on.

Well to be honest I'm not fully versed in the whole history of this topic, that was just my take on one of the comments that was being made and then saw a reply to that which really didn't make any sense to what had been said. I'll leave the actual discussion to the people that are actively involved and want to be, I just need to make sure that the discussion stays on topic and civil.

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Well to be honest I'm not fully versed in the whole history of this topic, that was just my take on one of the comments that was being made and then saw a reply to that which really didn't make any sense to what had been said. I'll leave the actual discussion to the people that are actively involved and want to be, I just need to make sure that the discussion stays on topic and civil.

it's civil.

[LAwLz]

17 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

The in driver ones can be disabled, the quake one was access to a beta.

It does not matter if it can be disabled or not. It should not be there to begin with. Like I said a few pages ago, the list of things I have to "fix" after every update is infuriating long. And while not all of the things on the list are big issues by themselves, the fact that there are now so many of then makes it into a big issue.

One thing that takes 5 seconds to fix? That's OK. 100 things that takes 5 seconds to fix? Not that OK anymore.

 

This ad in the driver was not the straw that broke the camels back. It was the straw that completely covered the already crushed camel, and I am sick and tired of hearing people go "it's no big deal, stop complaining".

 

It was not access to a beta. It was a tracker link that brought you to a page where you could sign up to maybe get access to a beta.

It was this exact link, except it also had a tracker in the URL so that AMD and Bethesda knew that you clicked the ad inserted by the driver.

 

 

26 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

This is the problem with this society.  Getting mad over everything.

I don't see people getting mad over everything. The large consensus in this thread is that this was a shitty move. Why not get mad when a company does something bad (which constantly happens these days, and I think it is because of people like you)?

Why are you so determined to defend poor behavior from companies? So determined that you go out of your way to mock people who are, in the end, trying to defend you from being mistreated by companies.

 

I think the problem with society is that people don't get mad over things they should be mad over. If a company introduces a change which has a net negative impact on consumers then you should ridicule them. Silence or defending them only gives off the message that their behavior is OK or should be encouraged, which is a very self-destructive thing for consumers to do.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

it's civil.

And I'm glad to see that it is, sometimes it's worth giving a reminder when it looks like it might start to not be and also one of the downs sides to being a moderator is I have to see all the comments that have been hidden by the moderation team. It can make for grim reading not to mention makes it more difficult to read and understand a thread as everyone else would see it.

[zMeul]

10 hours ago, mr moose said:

That didn't come to light until well into the discussion.  And the original article made the claim they were being paid for it, it was not the OP's assumption based on a bit.ly link.

it was the article's assumption and so was mine

1. the shortcut added to the desktop is a bit.ly link and not a direct link to the BETA registration site
2. a referral is also present in the final destination of the link, again .. not going directly to the registration site
3. deals/agreements/arrangements between businesses are made for financial gain (directly or indirectly)

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, zMeul said:

it was the article's assumption and so was mine

1. the shortcut added to the desktop is a bit.ly link and not a direct link to the BETA registration site
2. a referral is also present in the final destination of the link, again .. not going directly to the registration site
3. deals/agreements/arrangements between businesses are made for financial gain (directly or indirectly)

My point really was only that it's not fair to accuse someone of being biased or tin foil wearing simply becasue they are discussing the ethics of a thing that someone else has claimed/reported. This is not Sparter, we do not hold the messenger responsible for articles claims. 

 

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

This is not Sparter, we do not hold the messenger responsible for articles claims. 

you forget this is LTT and certain group of people are known to attack me for speaking against AMD 

[Jito463]

9 hours ago, Grinners said:

Please provide your home address and I'll construct a temporary billboard in your living room free of charge without your express permission. I just love pleasing people. 

Billboard?  Hardly.  This would be more akin to a magazine or a poster than a billboard.  Annoying, yes (I've said that from the start), but hardly on the same level of intrusion as a billboard in your living room.  Over-exaggerate much?

[XenosTech]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I often find it to be the exact opposite. I mean, even the people who agree in this thread that what AMD did was shitty are someone stubbornly defending them as if it was their own mother. Just look at all the "What AMD did was shitty but..." posts.

I've seen them, not saying what AMD did was the most sense able thing on the planet, I just don't get why all the rage over the html icon, there's tons of them on your system right now that you don't even know about that got installed with the software. Still the fact remains that AMD is still the most hated thing on thing forum, look back any any AMD thread that has AMD in any positive light and see how much of a shit storm those posts turned in to.

 

9 hours ago, Grinners said:

Please provide your home address and I'll construct a temporary billboard in your living room free of charge without your express permission. I just love pleasing people.

Funny how you just quote that specific part of my post to suit your narrative.

[Grinners]

40 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Billboard?  Hardly.  This would be more akin to a magazine or a poster than a billboard.  Annoying, yes (I've said that from the start), but hardly on the same level of intrusion as a billboard in your living room.  Over-exaggerate much?

Please provide your home address and I'll post a poster in your living room free of charge without your express permission. I just love pleasing people. 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, XenosTech said:

there's tons of them on your system right now that you don't even know about that got installed with the software.

Speak for yourself. I only got 3 icons on my desktop right now.

 

1 hour ago, XenosTech said:

Still the fact remains that AMD is still the most hated thing on thing forum

I don't have any numbers, but I am pretty sure Apple or Nvidia takes that crown fairly handily.

 

1 hour ago, XenosTech said:

look back any any AMD thread that has AMD in any positive light and see how much of a shit storm those posts turned in to.

I think a lot of that is because this forum has a lot of AMD zealots which defend them no matter what. I mean, just look at this thread.

It takes two to tango.

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

A shitty move that they were trying to give you access to a free beta?  Oh no, they linked you to it!  Those monsters!

I see it as any other ad. The fact that it was a free beta does not matter to me. Would you be OK with Steam setting your start page to a gay porno on pornhub? "A shitty move that they were trying to give you access to a free porno? Oh no, they linked you to it! Those monsters!".

See what I mean? Putting ads on my desktop is inexcusable. It doesn't matter what company did it, why they did it or what the product they added was. It could be a free game, it could be viagra. It's the principle that I am against.

 

45 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Of course, they're going to implement ads, they're a company.  That's how they make money.

So what you are saying is that AMD is an ad company? I am pretty sure they would describe themselves as a hardware company.

Also, there are several ways of making money. You wouldn't justify child labor with "of course they are going to use child labor. It's cheap and they are a company. That's how they make money.".

 

If AMD wants my money then they should make me want to buy their CPUs and GPUs. They should not put ads on my desktop when I download software needed to use the hardware product I bought.

 

45 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

If you don't like the way a business does something then don't buy their products.

This logic is just mind boggling to me, and I see it used all the time. I seriously can't fathom the thought process people like you go through to come up with this backwards reasoning.

If I think AMD's products aren't appealing them I will voice my opinion on what they should do to make it better. I am criticism them because I care and want them to become better. If you just stay quiet and stop doing things then they will have no idea what went wrong.

 

It's the same with watching videos. What do you think Linus prefers.

1) 90% of his viewers just stop watching his videos one day without any explanation.

2) A large portion of his viewers start complaining about something, and then as he keeps ignoring the feedback his viewers drop.

 

Which scenario do you think is the best for both the consumers, and the company? When you tell people to shut up and just stop buying their products, you are advocating for scenario 1. What I am doing when I voice my concerns for the direction a company is heading in, I am trying to create scenario 2 where the company has ample time to correct their mistakes.

 

Again, what you are doing is not only harmful to us consumers, but also the companies themselves. You are harming yourself and it does not seem like you even realize it.

 

 

45 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I honestly don't care if AMD lets me know about a game's beta access.  I can delete the icon if I don't want it.  Oh, and maybe I have better things to get mad about than ads.

But you do care enough to tell others that they should not care...

 

45 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Companies will always force ads into everything.  There's not much you can do about it, and they don't care how much you bitch if they're making money.

Actually, you are 100% objectively WRONG.

1) Companies will not always force ads into everything. I don't know if you're young or why you think this way, but this ad epidemic is a very recent phenomenon. You only need to go back ~10 years and everything was very different.

2) Companies are not getting away with it. AMD has already backpedaled and apologized. Comparing did work. You might not think it works, but you're wrong.

 

If this thread has taught you anything, it should be that complaining works. If a company does something you don't like then you should not sit there and take it. Make your voice heard and they might change it, like AMD did here. They pulled the ad.

 

I mean seriously, did you not read the OP before you decided to jump in and defend AMD? It's right there in the first post.

 

[XenosTech]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Speak for yourself. I only got 3 icons on my desktop right now.

 

I don't have any numbers, but I am pretty sure Apple or Nvidia takes that crown fairly handily.

 

I think a lot of that is because this forum has a lot of AMD zealots which defend them no matter what. I mean, just look at this thread.

It takes two to tango.

Not all of the icons get placed on your desktop, some are actually in the install location of the application or in your appdata.

 

Idk in the apple threads that's more of trolling than anything else I mean macs do have their purpose even though I myself wouldn't buy one.

 

Fanbois will be fanbois and they'll go at each other with swords if the law permitted it. If a company does something good they give them credit for it not try to find reasons to drag it down, isn't that the opposite of progress that some of these same fanbois be championing around the forums ?

[LAwLz]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

1) I'm not an AMD fanboy, I just don't care.

I never said you were. Are you perhaps projecting right now?

 

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

2) No, they're a company.  Companies love shoving ads down your throat.  Welcome to capitalism!

Just saying "they are a company" does not excuse them for doing bad things. Not all companies loves shoving ads down your throat, and I certainly don't want to see AMD becoming one of those companies.

 

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

3) If you don't like what a company is doing then why support them by buying their products? 

Because I want to give them a chance to become better. I really fail to see how this is such a hard concept for you to grasp. I even gave you an analogy which should explain why just abandoning a company at the slightest wrongdoing is a really bad idea, both for the companies and consumers.

 

5 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

4) The best situation for the consumer?  That's adorable!  Corporations don't care about you, they care about your bank account.

 

5)  Companies won't force ads?  Really?  How many companies are bitching about people using adblocker and if you try to access their site they will spam you with pop-ups telling you to turn it off to view content on their site?  How many cities have ads all over the place?  Ya, companies totally don't force ads into your everyday life. That's not something that happens.

When did I say they cared about me? They don't have to care about me to do the right thing.

Again, they actually removed the ads after the backlash so your entire post is complete nonsense.

Also, a hardware manufacturer and a website have two different business models. I really shouldn't have to explain this but apparently I do. A hardware company primarily makes money from selling hardware. A website often has their primary source of income from ads. Do you understand how these two are different and saying "company X does it so therefore company Y should do it too!" makes no sense?

 

8 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

6)  I'm not going to rage over something I can delete out of my life.  Now, if it was forced there over and over like Navi yelling, "hey hey hey!  listen!"  Ya, then maybe I'd be mad, but I came to the realization that first world countries are plagued with capitalism, and bitching about it online isn't going to do anything about it.  Oh, wow you poor AMD...they're probably going to shove more ads in your everyday life.  But, you sure showed capitalism.

Actually, you're once again objectively wrong. Bitching about it did help. AMD did remove the ad and apologized. Bitching about it online did help.

Again, did you even read the news before you decided to comment on it? Because you are saying a lot of things which are just flat out wrong, and repeating the same thing over and over won't make it true.

 

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

Not all of the icons get placed on your desktop, some are actually in the install location of the application or in your appdata.

Which is a completely different thing.

Putting a suspicious link on my desktop with an URL I can't check where it goes is something malware would do. Putting an icon in the install folder is something programs do, and it's the icon for the program you actually installed.

Steam putting its icon in the steam folder = OK

Steam adding a suspicious shortcut with an obscured URL on my desktop without telling me = Not OK

 

This really should not be that difficult to understand.

 

8 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

If a company does something good they give them credit for it not try to find reasons to drag it down, isn't that the opposite of progress that some of these same fanbois be championing around the forums ?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. What AMD did was not good. Nobody is trying to find reasons to twist a good deed from AMD into a bad thing. Even a lot of AMD fans were upset about this because it is clearly not something that benefits consumers. It only benefits AMD and Bethesda.

 

 

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

You're not going to stop every company from doing it.

No but you can, as proven by this whole situation, limit the amount of companies that does it.

Why not try and minimize the damage if possible?

 

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Why not bitch every time a video game starts up and you see Nvidia, AMD, or Intel's name?

I do. That shit is annoying as fuck. I don't play that much games these days, but when I did I always looked up if you could remove the startup screens. In a lot of older games you just needed to delete the intro file and the game would suddenly start up without the intros.

[Bouzoo]

2 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Oh, I thought you left like 2 years ago? LTT nostalgia got you?

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Putting a suspicious link on my desktop with an URL I can't check where it goes is something malware would do. Putting an icon in the install folder is something programs do, and it's the icon for the program you actually installed.

Steam putting its icon in the steam folder = OK

Steam adding a suspicious shortcut with an obscured URL on my desktop without telling me = Not OK

Quite a few applications and games put url links in their install directories to merch stores, their own market place, partner programs etc. What's different here is that the icon was placed on your desktop and not hidden away in the install directory for you to likely never find or care about.

[LAwLz]

11 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Then why is this newsworthy?

Because it is news? AMD decided to do something shitty, so it gets posted here. It's the same as when Microsoft decides to put ads on the lock screen and such.

 

11 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Companies force ads and profit from it on a daily basis.

Yes and that's bad. We should have more people outraged by it.

 

11 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

You get them to remove one and they add many more ads.

That remains to be seen, and if they do then they deserve even more backlash.

 

11 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Also, how it suspicious?  It's the Quake logo that got put there when you installed a driver.  That thing has existed since 1997.

Because the driver never told the users that it would put the logo there. Have you ever heard of a Trojan horse? Those things has existed since the 90's too. If I found a suspicious link on my desktop then I would suspect a virus or something similar. I sure hope you don't mindlessly click on all bitly links you see. That's a great way of getting infected with malware.

"Oh it has the Quake logo on it so it must be safe!".

 

11 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

The only way you're going to get away from ads is by locking yourself in a dark room and stare at the drywall all day if you plan to live in a capitalist society.

Could you please stop saying "capitalism" as if that is an excuse? I've already told you that there are multiple ways of making money. Being a company that is hungry for profits does not excuse shitty behavior, nor should it be encouraged or defended.

 

 

9 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Quite a few applications and games put url links in their install directories to merch stores, their own market place, partner programs etc. What's different here is that the icon was placed on your desktop and not hidden away in the install directory for you to likely never find or care about.

Yes, but putting it on the desktop is a very big difference. Come on leadeater, you know better than this.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Well, I dunno they seem to rage every time they boot up Borderlands 2 and see the Nvidia logo, according to them.

Funny that you mention Borderlands 2. I did actually get pissed at that annoying Nvidia logo (among others) so I looked up if you could delete it. I don't know remember the exact file, but there was an ini file somewhere the that controlled which videos would play at startup. I removed all of them (there was like 5 in that bloody game). All of a sudden my game started up like 10 seconds faster.