[Updated] Nvidia releases a new Titan X GPU called "Titan Xp"

[Masada02]

Just now, LukaH said:

wonder how owners of the first Titan Xp feel, given that you can buy it now for almost half the price in the form of a 1080ti and now this shit happens. Gotta love nvidia.

 

Here is what i think and sort of hope is going on. Nvidia caught wind of how vega performs and is just doing a quick cash grab before it launches and destroys everything. 

Fingers crossed.

Titan X (Pascal) owners had 9 months of having the fastest card on the market. Anyone with half a brain knows that nothing stays on top forever. The original owners paid the extra money for that extra time to use the performance that's in the 1080TI. 

 

Now if someone just bought a Titan X (Pascal) a month ago, I would feel sorry for them. But also not sorry because they should have done more research.

[Grinners]

On another note, Nvidia did really well keeping this quiet. 

 

I didn't hear a single thing about it until it's announcement. 

 

Keeping these types of thing secret must be hard in this day and age. 

[The Owl]

There probably were news but everyone thought it was the existing one

[dexT]

31 minutes ago, Grinners said:

On another note, Nvidia did really well keeping this quiet. 

 

I didn't hear a single thing about it until it's announcement. 

 

Keeping these types of thing secret must be hard in this day and age. 

It was announced the same day Jen-Hsun thought it up

[Dash Lambda]

Nvidia: "This is the Titan X."
Users: *cheering*

Nvidia: "And this is the NVIDIA Titan X."
Users: "Really? That only makes it difficult, you know... Okay, we're just going to call it the Titan XP, since you apparently weren't creative enough."

Nvidia: "Oh?... Well then, THIS is the Titan Xp."
Users: ...

 

That naming scheme isn't oblivious, it's not silly, it's malicious.

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, laminutederire said:

They mislead a bit people because they placed a trend of having the titan being the best card of every generation for gamers, with the 80ti coming after for cheaper, so you paid premium to have the best early, and that's people bought into. The issue here is that they paid premium not to have the best card of the generation. I don't know their marketing materials enough, but that's basically how people feel, and why even people I've mostly seen praising nvidia like jayztwocents or other YouTube complain. I don't think they lied but they probably did took advantage of people in the assumption everyone made based on the last two generations. (To use your own words predatory business practices it falls into).

That and the name is ridiculous to be fair  

See below, I agree with his analysis of the situation.

 

People "feel" lots of things, all the time. That doesn't mean their feelings are justified or logical.

 

As I said, get mad at them for the naming scheme, since that's goddamn retarded - no question.

 

But "previous trends" would actually have TOLD people that the Titan Xp (2017) was coming. As @djdwosk97 mentions, the Kepler Titan had two variants: A Titan (cut down) and a Titan Black (full bore).

 

Maxwell was the odd one out.

 

Especially since WE KNEW that the Titan X Pascal was a cut down GP102, at time of release. Whereas Titan X Maxwell was full bore GM200 - which we also knew at release.

 

I've said it before - those who had some impression that the Titan X Pascal was somehow the "best possible card" for the architecture was naive at best, or straight up misinformed.

2 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

This is the third generation of Titans. The first generation -- Kepler -- had two Titans (Titan and a Titan Black, where the original was a cut-down GK110 and the Black was a full GK110 that was released a year later). The second generation -- Maxwell -- had one Titan that launched as a full GM200. 

 

So, no, there was no trend indicating that the Titan X(P) would have been the best card in the generation. If anything, it's more likely that there would have eventually been a Titan Xp.

 

[LukaH]

2 hours ago, Masada02 said:

Titan X (Pascal) owners had 9 months of having the fastest card on the market. Anyone with half a brain knows that nothing stays on top forever. The original owners paid the extra money for that extra time to use the performance that's in the 1080TI. 

 

Now if someone just bought a Titan X (Pascal) a month ago, I would feel sorry for them. But also not sorry because they should have done more research.

so what you are saying is when intel gives you 10%+ performance on new CPUs people say "booo intel we want more performance!" but when nvidia does it "OMG yes take my money plz!"... wonder when people will have enough.

[DnFx91]

i was wondering how on earth any mac users are going to use a Titan Xp, like physically i mean. Are there any Apple PC's that you can physically put that card in to ? or any card for that matter. i know the old monster Mac Pros had PCIe slots like a "traditional" PC, but clearly you wont put a titan into one of those, and all their modern computers are very much lacking of full size PCIe x16 slots.

 

MXM ?????

[dalekphalm]

10 minutes ago, LukaH said:

so what you are saying is when intel gives you 10%+ performance on new CPUs people say "booo intel we want more performance!" but when nvidia does it "OMG yes take my money plz!"... wonder when people will have enough.

You're conflating issues.

 

If you want to complain about NVIDIA's overall pricing practices and business strategies, then do so. But them releasing a faster, fully unlocked GPU is not in-and-of-itself a bad thing.

 

Adjusting the pricing on the Titan Xp? Sure. Changing the dumbass name to something more obvious and well named? Definitely.

 

Though to be honest, I think NVIDIA will straight up discontinue the Titan X Pascal, sell off all remaining stock, and not manufacture it anymore.

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, DnFx91 said:

i was wondering how on earth any mac users are going to use a Titan Xp, like physically i mean. Are there any Apple PC's that you can physically put that card in to ? or any card for that matter. i know the old monster Mac Pros had PCIe slots like a "traditional" PC, but clearly you wont put a titan into one of those, and all their modern computers are very much lacking of full size PCIe x16 slots.

 

MXM ?????

1st Generation Intel based Mac Pro towers have huge cases. You could get them in configs w/ Xeons, and they would have PCIe slots. They had 2x PCIe x16 Gen 2.0 slots in them.

[DnFx91]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

1st Generation Intel based Mac Pro towers have huge cases. You could get them in configs w/ Xeons, and they would have PCIe slots. They had 2x PCIe x16 Gen 2.0 slots in them.

jeez, that just seems fundamentally wrong though, right ?

[dalekphalm]

Just now, DnFx91 said:

jeez, that just seems fundamentally wrong though, right ?

It was a different time back then. Mac Pro computers were actual badass workstations, capable of dual socket CPU's, etc.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro#1st_generation

 

Supposedly, Apple is going to be "going back to the roots" with the upcoming Gen 3 Mac Pro.

[DnFx91]

Just now, dalekphalm said:

It was a different time back then. Mac Pro computers were actual badass workstations, capable of dual socket CPU's, etc.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro#1st_generation

 

Supposedly, Apple is going to be "going back to the roots" with the upcoming Gen 3 Mac Pro.

yeah i heard about the new dustbin, i'm not fond of apple but it has got me interested, i'll wait before i judge it. 

 

I just meant though, surely if you are buying a brand new titan in 2017, building an Intel based PC yourself is clearly the less bat-shit insane option, rather than putting that card into an 11 year old machine, just why ?

[LukaH]

6 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You're conflating issues.

 

If you want to complain about NVIDIA's overall pricing practices and business strategies, then do so. But them releasing a faster, fully unlocked GPU is not in-and-of-itself a bad thing.

 

Adjusting the pricing on the Titan Xp? Sure. Changing the dumbass name to something more obvious and well named? Definitely.

 

Though to be honest, I think NVIDIA will straight up discontinue the Titan X Pascal, sell off all remaining stock, and not manufacture it anymore.

I dont think so we all know the gp102 is not the biggest chip nvida can produce and if vega is competitive to the Titan Xp we will see it or another cash grab either way nvidia will milk it before releasing volta. 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Nvidia's PR Rep rn

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, LukaH said:

I dont think so we all know the gp102 is not the biggest chip nvida can produce and if vega is competitive to the Titan Xp we will see it or another cash grab either way nvidia will milk it before releasing volta. 

Can you clarify your post? I have no idea what you're saying, and what you're disagreeing with me about.

 

Yes, we all know GP100 is the big chip. I've stated as much at least half a dozen times now in this thread. Though I personally doubt we'll see a GP100 based Titan unless VEGA comes anywhere near the 1080 Ti or the new Titan Xp. Or, Volta is significantly delayed.

 

But assuming Volta is on time, and assuming VEGA doesn't match or beat the 1080 Ti, I don't think we'll see a GP100 based Titan.

 

But in the end? I've no idea. The possibility is certainly there. Titan Xp Black Edition perhaps?

[Ayporos]

The argument that people who bought a Titan XP had their run doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Saying "duhh eventually a faster card comes out" does not apply to the Titan series.

People are willing to dish out a lot of money for exclusivity if it is a product, productcategory or usecase category they really love/identify with and/or to showcase their (monetary) priorities/wealth.
If you buy a LaFerrari you buy it because you want to spend a lot of money on something knowing it's going to be exclusive and the best in its tier (in this case, being a luxurious expensive Ferrari car).
This is how the Titan started for Nvidia. This is the reason it had a massive pricetag that fell out of the price/performance curve of the other cards in its generation and why it had a name instead of a number. You bought a Titan, you had THE BEST most exclusive card of that generation and you felt good about yourself.
Today however, that's changed. Nvidia have now made a habit of releasing a lot of different 'Titan' named cards in a generation (titan, X, Z, Black, you name it) which has basically transformed the Nvidia Titan cards from being exclusive 'top dog' in a given generation of chips to simply being part of the regular lineup.
If you want a GREAT card for gaming or numbercrunching or deep learning you do not buy a titan Xp, you buy a GTX 1080 Ti and get much better price/performance. Nvidia pissed off the demographic that buys Titan cards by making it so the card(s) no longer adhere to the rules of said demographic's demands, namely:

Nobody wants to pay exclusivity tax for something that isn't, in fact, exclusive.
 

[Dylanc1500]

If people want a slight idea as to the performance of the Titan Xp in benchmarks here you go. It's a full fat gp102.

Quadro P6000 with the same boost clock speed at titan x (pascal) 1530.

More food for digestion.

[Masada02]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You're conflating issues.

 

If you want to complain about NVIDIA's overall pricing practices and business strategies, then do so. But them releasing a faster, fully unlocked GPU is not in-and-of-itself a bad thing.

 

Adjusting the pricing on the Titan Xp? Sure. Changing the dumbass name to something more obvious and well named? Definitely.

 

Though to be honest, I think NVIDIA will straight up discontinue the Titan X Pascal, sell off all remaining stock, and not manufacture it anymore.

It's no longer on their website, so it seems that is what they are doing. 

[dalekphalm]

4 minutes ago, DnFx91 said:

yeah i heard about the new dustbin, i'm not fond of apple but it has got me interested, i'll wait before i judge it. 

 

I just meant though, surely if you are buying a brand new titan in 2017, building an Intel based PC yourself is clearly the less bat-shit insane option, rather than putting that card into an 11 year old machine, just why ?

I think it's more along the lines of "I have one, but I need better graphics".

 

Remember, those Mac Pro's could have dual 4c/8t CPU's, giving a workstation w/ 8c/16t, which is still pretty powerful. And they made them as recently as 2010. Some owners of them might find the CPU power still acceptable, but the GPU power lacking.

 

No point in spending a few thousand bucks on an Intel CPU + Motherboard upgrade that isn't really required.

 

1 minute ago, Ayporos said:

The argument that people who bought a Titan XP had their run doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Saying "duhh eventually a faster card comes out" does not apply to the Titan series.

People are willing to dish out a lot of money for exclusivity if it is a product, productcategory or usecase category they really love/identify with and/or to showcase their (monetary) priorities/wealth.
If you buy a LaFerrari you buy it because you want to spend a lot of money on something knowing it's going to be exclusive and the best in its tier (in this case, being a luxurious expensive Ferrari car).
This is how the Titan started for Nvidia. This is the reason it had a massive pricetag that fell out of the price/performance curve of the other cards in its generation and why it had a name instead of a number. You bought a Titan, you had THE BEST most exclusive card of that generation and you felt good about yourself.
Today however, that's changed. Nvidia have now made a habit of releasing a lot of different 'Titan' named cards in a generation (titan, X, Z, Black, you name it) which has basically transformed the Nvidia Titan cards from being exclusive 'top dog' in a given generation of chips to simply being part of the regular lineup.
If you want a GREAT card for gaming or numbercrunching or deep learning you do not buy a titan Xp, you buy a GTX 1080 Ti and get much better price/performance. Nvidia pissed off the demographic that buys Titan cards by making it so the card(s) no longer adhere to the rules of said demographic's demands, namely:

Nobody wants to pay exclusivity tax for something that isn't, in fact, exclusive.
 

There's a fatal flaw in your logic:

 

The Titan series has never been "unique" to one card. We're only on generation three of Titan cards, and so far, TWO OUT OF THREE generations have had multiple Titan Cards:

Gen 1: Kepler GK110 cut down - Titan; GK110 full bore - Titan Black

Gen 2: Maxwell GM200 full bore - Titan X Maxwell

Gen 3: Pascal GP102 cut down - Titan X Pascal; GP102 full bore - Titan Xp

 

So as you can see, anyone who bought a Titan X Pascal because "it's unique" (The LaFerrari argument), was naive and didn't do proper research into their purchase.

 

I know how it feels to buy something and have something a lot better be released shortly afterwards, but man, c'mon, that's literally every type of retail product ever - ESPECIALLY SO in computer technology. There's always something faster on the horizon.

 

You yourself contradict your own opinion in your post, and I quote:

Quote

Nvidia have now made a habit of releasing a lot of different 'Titan' named cards in a generation (titan, X, Z, Black, you name it)

Except, you should replace "now" with "since the beginning", since Titan and Titan Black were both Gen 1 Titan Cards.

[LukaH]

9 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Yes, we all know GP100 is the big chip. 

was just saying what you said in the quote above. That the GP102 is not the biggest chip and we will probably see it sooner or later. 

[Ayporos]

1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

I think it's more along the lines of "I have one, but I need better graphics".

 

Remember, those Mac Pro's could have dual 4c/8t CPU's, giving a workstation w/ 8c/16t, which is still pretty powerful. And they made them as recently as 2010. Some owners of them might find the CPU power still acceptable, but the GPU power lacking.

 

No point in spending a few thousand bucks on an Intel CPU + Motherboard upgrade that isn't really required.

 

There's a fatal flaw in your logic:

 

The Titan series has never been "unique" to one card. We're only on generation three of Titan cards, and so far, TWO OUT OF THREE generations have had multiple Titan Cards:

Gen 1: Kepler GK110 cut down - Titan; GK110 full bore - Titan Black

Gen 2: Maxwell GM200 full bore - Titan X Maxwell

Gen 3: Pascal GP102 cut down - Titan X Pascal; GP102 full bore - Titan Xp

 

So as you can see, anyone who bought a Titan X Pascal because "it's unique" (The LaFerrari argument), was naive and didn't do proper research into their purchase.

 

I know how it feels to buy something and have something a lot better be released shortly afterwards, but man, c'mon, that's literally every type of retail product ever - ESPECIALLY SO in computer technology. There's always something faster on the horizon.

 

You yourself contradict your own opinion in your post, and I quote:

Except, you should replace "now" with "since the beginning", since Titan and Titan Black were both Gen 1 Titan Cards.

Yes you are correct. The facts of the matter contradict my argument.

That does not change the perception of the buying demographic though.

If the intended demographic to which Nvidia is trying to sell this card gets mad at Nvidia, then it is a dumb move to make as a company.
It doesn't matter what their past was. If you sell a 1300,- card to people willing to PAY that amount of money for such a card to then later bring out an 800,- card which is FASTER and then another 1300,- card which is ALSO FASTER (and named practically the same as the card you bought) you ARE going to get mad.
- You didn't pay for the exclusivity, as there's now another card just as expensive BUT BETTER (Titan Xp).
- You didn't pay for performance, as there's now another card CHEAPER AND BETTER (1080Ti).

It doesn't matter how you want to spin it, the people that are most upset about this are people that bought Titan XP's who also happen to be the people that Nvidia hopes to sell this Titan Xp to.. It just doesn't add up.

[Masada02]

8 minutes ago, Dylanc1500 said:

If people want a slight idea as to the performance of the Titan Xp in benchmarks here you go. It's a full fat gp102.

Quadro P6000 with the same boost clock speed at titan x (pascal) 1530.

More food for digestion.

Should actually be a bit better than that since the Xp has much faster memory than any of the other Pascal based cards.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, LukaH said:

was just saying what you said in the quote above. That the GP102 is not the biggest chip and we will probably see it sooner or later. 

Could be - I'd personally guess that whether we see the GP100 on a consumer GPU or not entirely depends on the market conditions over the next 6 months. How VEGA high end performs will have a lot to do with the outcome. The other thing to consider is that "officially", Volta is still scheduled for a 2017 launch.

 

Volta could be pushed back for one reason or another (and if it does, I suspect a GP100 based Titan is more likely), but we have no solid info on that one way or another.

 

2 minutes ago, Ayporos said:

Yes you are correct. The facts of the matter contradict my argument.

That does not change the perception of the buying demographic though.

If the intended demographic to which Nvidia is trying to sell this card gets mad at Nvidia, then it is a dumb move to make as a company.
It doesn't matter what their past was. If you sell a 1300,- card to people willing to PAY that amount of money for such a card to then later bring out an 800,- card which is FASTER and then another 1300,- card which is ALSO FASTER (and named practically the same as the card you bought) you ARE going to get mad.
- You didn't pay for the exclusivity, as there's now another card just as expensive BUT BETTER (Titan Xp).
- You didn't pay for performance, as there's now another card CHEAPER AND BETTER (1080Ti).

It doesn't matter how you want to spin it, the people that are most upset about this are people that bought Titan XP's who also happen to be the people that Nvidia hopes to sell this Titan Xp to.. It just doesn't add up.

I'll concede that yes, people will get upset over it - regardless of their reasons.

 

But, in this thread in particular, I question how many people who are mad about it has ever owned any Titan, let alone Titan X Pascal.

[Dylanc1500]

8 minutes ago, Masada02 said:

Should actually be a bit better than that since the Xp has much faster memory than any of the other Pascal based cards.

Not to mention the clock speed increase.