Only a small subset of Windows phones to get Creators Update

[Shoob]

7 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

I have experienced very few bugs in the past month. If you wish to buy an Android device then you can but know that you are not going to help the situation. You're only going to make the situation more dire.

Only the people at the Microsoft mobile division team could've helped the situation. Microsoft even stopped releasing new devices and is pulling the plug on updated W10M phones. Thanks to this, the "Creators Update" is not going to help them increase their market share in any way. As a non-biased consumer I lost all respect in their mobile operating system and my stubbornness of not giving up on it won't prevent it from fading away.

 

The best thing is that Nokia got revived by HMD Global and their new phones (at least the Nokia 6, as far as we've seen), stay true to their roots.

[Nowak]

Just now, Pandalf said:

The best thing is that Nokia got revived by HMD Global and their new phones (at least the Nokia 6, as far as we've seen), stay true to their roots.

That's because HMD Global bought back everything but the trademarks from Microsoft. They share board members with Nokia, they own all of Nokia's former technologies, they have many ex-Nokia employees and are based in Nokia's former headquarters. For the most part, they're Nokia as we knew them, just under a different name. Technically.

[Bensemus]

On 2017-04-05 at 4:25 PM, Droidbot said:

The issue is that Apple uses iOS as a way to kill older devices, especially the performance. iPhone 4 iOS7, iPhone 4S iOS8, iPhone 5 iOS9.. 

People say that and have tried taking Apple to court over it but the two attempts never actually even made it to trial. I had an iPhone 5 on iOS 9 and never felt the phone was unusable. I really enjoyed it and since being on android for the past year I'm looking forward to going back to iOS.

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, Bensemus said:

People say that and have tried taking Apple to court over it but the two attempts never actually even made it to trial. I had an iPhone 5 on iOS 9 and never felt the phone was unusable. I really enjoyed it and since being on android for the past year I'm looking forward to going back to iOS.

People probably forget to close apps after they are finished with them, which makes the device seem like its slowed down a lot. Combine that with background tasks and

Apple loving dual cores means that their devices become unusable.

[atrash]

8 hours ago, Bensemus said:

People say that and have tried taking Apple to court over it but the two attempts never actually even made it to trial. I had an iPhone 5 on iOS 9 and never felt the phone was unusable. I really enjoyed it and since being on android for the past year I'm looking forward to going back to iOS.

and iPhone 5 is from 2012 ffs. some people just trying to hate for the sake of it. to think that it originally came with iOS 6 and still getting update up till today is almost unthinkable in the smartphone world.. smh.

 

Back on topic, I've already long left the W10M train after being a Windows Phone fan since the WP 8.0 days with Lumia 620>Lumia 925>Lumia 950XL. Microsoft really need to put their shit together and show some real intend with the ecosystem ffs before I will even consider going back to W10M again. Gave my Lumia 950XL to my mum btw and I'm rocking iPhone 6S myself atm.

[Nowak]

Just now, atrash said:

Microsoft really need to put their shit together and show some real intend with the ecosystem ffs before I will even consider going back to W10M again

That is Windows Phone's biggest problem right there, Microsoft. They not only didn't do any research into how people use their phones, but they also basically turned their mobile OS into a weird mishmash of Android and iOS that appeals to nobody but Microsoft diehards.

 

Their lack of insight into how people use their phones was put best by Panos Panoy during the Lumia 950 announcement. "I got shit to do, I don't have the time to play around with a phone." They thought people still viewed their phones as a PDA-like device, for checking email and taking phone calls and not much else. The problem with that logic is that NOBODY, especially millennials, use their phones like how Microsoft thinks they do. They're constantly glued to their phones, posting on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/Reddit, texting friends and using them to be social. So when Microsoft lost the consumer market, they tried to go for the corporate market. But, they didn't properly incentivize the OS to businesses already standardized with iOS or Android, so they couldn't breach that market either.

 

With developers quickly abandoning the platform, and users going with them, with a predicted market share of less than 0.1% by 2020, it's time for Microsoft to throw in the proverbial towel.

[Tataffe]

No kidding. Whenever someone tells me that they have a Windows Phone, my response is: "Oh, it's you!"

[captain_to_fire]

Unless there are still hidden tricks up in their sleeves, a eulogy for Windows Phone is coming. 

 

 

[Guest]

To be honest I don't even understand why Windows Phone exists to begin with? They make no sense for a corporate environment and struggle in a consumer one with limited app support and a tiny market share: they're simply too late to the party.

 

Microsoft would be better to allocate resources to other platforms like Azure & Office 365 where they can actually make money.

[Nowak]

4 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

To be honest I don't even understand why Windows Phone exists to begin with? They make no sense for a corporate environment and struggle in a consumer one with limited app support and a tiny market share: they're simply too late to the party.

 

Microsoft would be better to allocate resources to other platforms like Azure & Office 365 where they can actually make money.

Microsoft wanted to remain relevant in the smartphone game. It clearly didn't work.

[dalekphalm]

5 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

To be honest I don't even understand why Windows Phone exists to begin with? They make no sense for a corporate environment and struggle in a consumer one with limited app support and a tiny market share: they're simply too late to the party.

 

Microsoft would be better to allocate resources to other platforms like Azure & Office 365 where they can actually make money.

The only problem with this argument I have, is that you're basically saying:

 

"There can be no new mobile OS's except for iOS and Android. Everyone else is too late to the party"

 

Which I think is short sighted. Obviously any new entrant to the smartphone OS game is going to encounter similar problems as Microsoft: Getting devs on board for an ecosystem that has literally zero marketshare at launch. A tough task no doubt.

 

But I would hate it if innovation started to stagnate because no new entrants tried to get in.

 

Microsoft has made a lot of missteps with W10M. And I'm pretty much one of those diehard Windows Mobile fans. I've had Windows Mobile 6.5, Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8, and Windows 10 Mobile. Their missteps have caused me to get an iPhone 6s 128GB as my current phone.

 

But I do believe there's potential for them to fix the problems. Unfortunately, the only way to do so will cost Microsoft a LOT of money before they get it right, so I don't know if they'll hang in long enough to make it happen. I do they do though, because Windows Mobile - ever since WP7 anyway, has been a very intriguing concept that shows an AMAZING amount of potential to be a great mobile OS that rivals Android and iOS.

[AlTech]

15 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

To be honest I don't even understand why Windows Phone exists to begin with?

There are a group of people who do not wish to use Android or IOS.

 

Many in this group joined Microsoft when they showed interest in making an alternative.

 

The only previous real alternatives to IOS or Android have all failed.

 

Ubuntu Touch (Ubuntu for Phones) was recently discontinued by Canonical. Blackberry 10 is no longer supported by Blackberry. Amazon Fire OS for Phones is no longer supported. The Jola Phone has barely taken off and is struggling to maintain relevant. 

 

Microsoft is the only real alternative to IOS or Android at the moment. You might be thinking "well hang on, why do you want an alternative to IOS or Android? Surely you like one or the other?" and the answer is no. 

 

I cannot speak for others but I personally dislike IOS and Android. IOS looks acceptable but is heavily tied into the Apple Ecosystem which I have no interest in joining and their OSes feel Counter Intuitive to use. I had to use an iPhone 4 for part of one day and I was deeply frustrated by it.

 

I got to play with an Android tablet briefly and I also was thoroughly frustrated and annoyed by it. Many don't realize that Microsoft has unique design and vision in terms of making their OS stand out. It's just that the majority of consumers are too stuck in this concept of Apple or Samsung.

 

The lack of many apps wouldn't impact average customers as most average customers only use a few main apps anyways including social media apps such as Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or admittedly Snapchat.

 

The Windows Store has a lot more apps than people give it credit for. 

 

Yours truly put some damn time and effort into making an app or two to help the community but also to see what it's like from a developer's perspective. 

 

The Universal Windows Platform, most commonly negatively associated with the acronym UWP, is a beautiful and magical thing that most people do not understand. Despite people thinking they know what it is. The ability to share the majority of the codebase across numerous device categories and platforms is astonishing. If Apple suddenly announced that binaries could be built for IOS and Mac with easily accessible tools and a nice enough development environment, people would be commending Apple and rushing out to try their new "innovation". 

 

You want some real innovation? Having an app work from an IoT board like a Raspberry Pi work on all devices between it and Enthusiast level PCs. The 8th generation's second best selling Games Console can run beautifully designed apps from the world's leading Desktop Operating system is no small feet.

 

It's what's saving Microsoft's game console business at the moment, Xbox PlayAnywhere is a thing of beauty enabled by the Universal Windows Platform. 

 

Now back to Windows Phones, Windows 10 Mobile is a stunning operating system that even CNET, an iSheep inspired journalistic corporation, has respect for. 

 

The only real problem with Windows on Phones is one which you were quite adamant to point out, the app problem.

 

Have you heard of the "Chicken And Egg" problem? I thought you had. In this context of Windows Phones and People there are several parties which could be the chicken or the egg.

 

Developers want to Developer for Windows Phones (because it's actually a damn sight easier than making an IOS app) IF there are customers to use the App.

If Customers want to use Apps they like then they need Developers to Develop the apps they like. Developing for Android or IOS is a right pain in the ass and is considerably more unbearable than developing for even the Xbox One and it's spectacularly lackluster performance from the AMD Jaguar based CPUs. 

 

Currently Windows Phones is in the cycle where developers are afraid to take risks and even big name corporations are afraid to spend money.

 

And to them I say this, Would it kill them to spend money? Honestly, the business world is so afraid of taking risks that being a consumer really sucks. 

 

And yes, while I did mention that yours truly made a Windows 10 Universal Windows Platform app, developing only on that platform has been a little hard because people are reluctant to use that as a distribution platform. Need I say that the same people who use IOS or Android are traditional and old fashioned individuals?

 

No, I'm not that disingenuous. I do realize that there are people using IOS or Android which are forward thinking individuals who simply don't know any better or aren't in a position of significant power to do anything about the current situation.

 

Thank god for me, Al. The nicknamed "Microsoft Defense Force" or whatever the newest pathetic nickname people will give me.

 

Thank god.

Quote

They make no sense for a corporate environment and struggle in a consumer one with limited app support and a tiny market share: they're simply too late to the party.

 

Microsoft would be better to allocate resources to other platforms like Azure & Office 365 where they can actually make money.

The resources spent on Windows Phones is the same resources being spent on Windows Desktop.

 

They lose practically nothing by supporting Mobile.

 

And HP has struck gold with their Elite X3. It's being heavily advertised and is frequently out of stock.

 

HP is quite happy with Microsoft and their tremendous success with the Elite X3 gaining fairly positive Critical Reception as an amazing Enterprise Phone. Personally, I think that for $700-900 a phone better be damn Amazing. That's just my thoughts though.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

They lose practically nothing by supporting Mobile.

 

They lose their reputation and money in what is essentially a failed platform. Q4 2016 showed that they'd dropped to a 0.3% market share, lowest of all 4 categories listed in the IDC OS market share comparison. 

 

Developing for Windows Phone does have costs - you can't say that everything that is developed in the Windows Desktop space carries across to that of mobile. 

 

Hell Microsoft even dropped 7800 staff from the Windows Phone project and got rid of Nokia. 

13 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

And to them I say this, Would it kill them to spend money? Honestly, the business world is so afraid of taking risks that being a consumer really sucks. 

 

Why bother spending Money? Mojang - A Microsoft company is rumored in January 2017 to have ceased development for the Minecraft mobile edition for Windows Phone - they'll continue only with iOS & Android due to a lack of user base versus the ongoing costs to develop.

 

Furthermore - because developers are stopping or have not developed for the platform, you'll find people won't want to adopt it. SnapChat, SoundCloud, Google Maps, GMail, BBC News, Tinder, Strava and Pinterest are some major apps that are missing from the Windows Play store. If you want to lure people away from iOS or Android, users these days expect there to be 'an app for that' as after all, that's essentially the marketing behind a smartphone: it can do pretty much any internet based task in a special app. No using web clients for stuff.

 

Plus the fact that Microsoft has no competitor for Apple CarPlay and Android Auto is yet another pain. A lot of modern vehicles are coming out with it including every single new Volkswagen yet you can't use it if you have a Windows Phone. 

[Nowak]

36 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The only real problem with Windows on Phones is one which you were quite adamant to point out, the app problem.

No. Windows Phone's biggest problem isn't apps anymore. It's Microsoft. They have nobody to blame for Windows Phone's weak market performance but themselves.

 

On 4/9/2017 at 0:56 AM, Daring said:

That is Windows Phone's biggest problem right there, Microsoft. They not only didn't do any research into how people use their phones, but they also basically turned their mobile OS into a weird mishmash of Android and iOS that appeals to nobody but Microsoft diehards.

 

Their lack of insight into how people use their phones was put best by Panos Panoy during the Lumia 950 announcement. "I got shit to do, I don't have the time to play around with a phone." They thought people still viewed their phones as a PDA-like device, for checking email and taking phone calls and not much else. The problem with that logic is that NOBODY, especially millennials, use their phones like how Microsoft thinks they do. They're constantly glued to their phones, posting on Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/Reddit, texting friends and using them to be social. So when Microsoft lost the consumer market, they tried to go for the corporate market. But, they didn't properly incentivize the OS to businesses already standardized with iOS or Android, so they couldn't breach that market either.

 

With developers quickly abandoning the platform, and users going with them, with a predicted market share of less than 0.1% by 2020, it's time for Microsoft to throw in the proverbial towel.

Misstep after misstep isn't gonna win you any battles in the ultra-competitive mobile market. Hate to break it to you, man, but Windows Phone has no future

 

Besides, you tried an Android tablet. Have you ever tried an Android phone? Because my Pixel is beautiful.

[vanished]

Quote

• Alcatel IDOL 4S
• Alcatel OneTouch Fierce XL
• HP Elite x3
• Lenovo Softbank 503LV
• MCJ Madosma Q601
• Microsoft Lumia 550
• Microsoft Lumia 640/640XL
• Microsoft Lumia 650
• Microsoft Lumia 950/950 XL
• Trinity NuAns Neo
• VAIO VPB051

Only a small subset?  That looks like all the main ones to me...

[Nowak]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Only a small subset?  That looks like all the main ones to me...

Acer and a few other OEMs are missing.

[vanished]

Just now, Daring said:

Acer and a few other OEMs are missing.

tbh, I didn't even recognize half of those.  IMO, if they've covered the Microsoft ones and that HP (and they did), that's good enough.

[Nowak]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

tbh, I didn't even recognize half of those.  IMO, if they've covered the Microsoft ones and that HP (and they did), that's good enough.

A lot of popular phones like the Lumia 830 and Lumia 930/Icon are not included as well.

[AlTech]

5 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

They lose their reputation and money in what is essentially a failed platform. Q4 2016 showed that they'd dropped to a 0.3% market share, lowest of all 4 categories listed in the IDC OS market share comparison. 

 

Developing for Windows Phone does have costs - you can't say that everything that is developed in the Windows Desktop space carries across to that of mobile. 

I was looking at it from Microsoft's point of view. Developers making apps for Windows undoubtedly have costs. Time is money after all but Windows UWP development tools are not incredibly difficult. It is relatively easy to develop for Windows 10 Mobile.

 

It's just a matter of getting a return on investment. 

5 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

Hell Microsoft even dropped 7800 staff from the Windows Phone project and got rid of Nokia. 

Why bother spending Money? Mojang - A Microsoft company is rumored in January 2017 to have ceased development for the Minecraft mobile edition for Windows Phone - they'll continue only with iOS & Android due to a lack of user base versus the ongoing costs to develop.

I'm afraid you're quite mistaken. I can't say that I actually blame you because Microsoft Studios is responsible for the atrocious marketing and miscommunication behind all this confusion.

 

Minecraft Pocket Edition support was discontinued for Windows Phone 8.1 since it is no longer supported. They continue to support customers on Windows 10 Mobile.

 

[AlTech]

4 minutes ago, Daring said:

A lot of popular phones like the Lumia 830 and Lumia 930/Icon are not included as well.

They're over 4 years old and what was once Nokia doesn't want to support them....

[Nowak]

Just now, AluminiumTech said:

They're over 4 years old and what was once Nokia doesn't want to support them....

That's because they make Android phones now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[SansVarnic]

<--  Windows Phone user.

 

 

[Dabombinable]

45 minutes ago, Daring said:

No. Windows Phone's biggest problem isn't apps anymore. It's Microsoft. They have nobody to blame for Windows Phone's weak market performance but themselves.

 

Misstep after misstep isn't gonna win you any battles in the ultra-competitive mobile market. Hate to break it to you, man, but Windows Phone has no future

 

Besides, you tried an Android tablet. Have you ever tried an Android phone? Because my Pixel is beautiful.

I saw a couple of Google Pixel set to demo mode at Helstra. Long story short the demo mode broke the phones causing numerous problems while even the sub $50 AUD smartphones had no problems and ran very well.

[Nowak]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

I saw a couple of Google Pixel set to demo mode at Helstra. Long story short the demo mode broke the phones causing numerous problems while even the sub $50 AUD smartphones had no problems and ran very well.

Odd, my Pixel has been almost flawless.

[Dabombinable]

19 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

They're over 4 years old and what was once Nokia doesn't want to support them....

Considering how few people own a Windows Phone, if Microsoft was serious about it they'd be trying to support all phones running it until they have a large enough market share.