Scottish Independence

[ixi_your_face]

What will Scotland honestly gain from independence? Pride? Surely the economy will be worse off if they leave GB?

 

Not necessarily, we at current don't have much say over our taxes and many of the laws that are passed down in Westminster aren't fairly voted upon (The english have a clear majority) So, often, it leaves us out in the cold. Also we don't at current take advantage of the awesome amount of wind and hydro power we have access to, which is strange, because we could easily power the entire country and have some left over to boot.

 

The economy standpoint doesn't really hold much ground, as we'd be taking half of the debt which if we harnessed our natural resources and sold our developments in that field to Europe, or even the Nordics, we should be able to cover most of it, not to mention all dat North sea oil we can fall back on

 

There's also a lot of push in Westminster to leave the EU atm, I for one, don't want to leave that. Sure, it has it's shortcomings but overall, i think it's well worth the downsides. That and joining the Nordic council would be of great benefit for us.

[Guest]

well what ever the decision is it better be worth it

if independance benifits everyone more then its all good

if staying with us in the uk is better then its all good

[jezza39]

we at current don't have much say over our taxes and many of the laws that are passed down in Westminster aren't fairly voted upon (The english have a clear majority) So, often, it leaves us out in the cold. 

 

Wow, if I remember correctly that was one of the main reasons America revolted Does Scotland have any legal right to leave the UK? It would be a massive change, all currency to Euros, change passports, new army etc. I'm sure England would fight hard for all your natural resources, they waged wars to keep America Good luck  

[ixi_your_face]

Wow, if I remember correctly that was one of the main reasons America revolted Does Scotland have any legal right to leave the UK? It would be a massive change, all currency to Euros, change passports, new army etc. I'm sure England would fight hard for all your natural resources, they waged wars to keep America Good luck

 

We have every right as a sovereign nation, and there's no way they could lay claim to the natural gas and oil we've got (It's clearly within scottish land/waters) and it'd definitely be split geographically since that's the only fair way, otherwise there'd be english oil within scottish waters and it'd end up weird.

We wouldn't change to euros, simply because there's no need to. We've already got £Stirling. If worst comes to worst, we'd prolly adopt the Krona, as we'd more than likely join the Nordic council

The current plans aren't really to have an army per say, more of a home defence, like the swiss have IIRC

 

And remember, the only reason they fought for America is because they started an armed revolt There was no hassle with Canada as they gained independence politically. We're also not about to throw good tea into a harbor

[jezza39]

We have every right as a sovereign nation, and there's no way they could lay claim to the natural gas and oil we've got (It's clearly within scottish land/waters) and it'd definitely be split geographically since that's the only fair way, otherwise there'd be english oil within scottish waters and it'd end up weird.

We wouldn't change to euros, simply because there's no need to. We've already got £Stirling. If worst comes to worst, we'd prolly adopt the Krona, as we'd more than likely join the Nordic council

The current plans aren't really to have an army per say, more of a home defence, like the swiss have IIRC

 

And remember, the only reason they fought for America is because they started an armed revolt There was no hassle with Canada as they gained independence politically. We're also not about to through good tea into a harbor

How does Scotland work at the moment within the UK? Is it like an Australian state within Australia? Where do your taxes go? I can't say I could see Scotland being invaded by anyone

[ixi_your_face]

How does Scotland work at the moment within the UK? Is it like an Australian state within Australia? Where do your taxes go? I can't say I could see Scotland being invaded by anyone

 

At current we're semi-devolved, with control over some taxes and able to govern our own stuff, but as a whole, we don't have much control over stuff most people feel is major to our economy and stuff

[SirReallySam]

If they want to I mean why not>?!

[Guest]

I have heard nothing of this b4

[Altecice]

Love how it turned into a "lets take the piss out of Scotland" yet we laugh it off .... that's something no other nation has in the world.

 

TBH we should really really REALLY! be looking into funding thorium LTFR research its almost there, as Thorium is as common as mud (unlike uranium that's on par with platinum for rarity so we are burning platinum  of our energy whhhaha?) Also we wont ever run out. the radioactive waste is active for 14 billion years (meaning its less reactive than the potassium in a banana so its safe). and it gives off soooooooooooooooooooo much more energy.

 

You could hold your entire life's worth of energy in pure thorium in your hand.

[ixi_your_face]

Love how it turned into a "lets take the piss out of Scotland" yet we laugh it off .... that's something no other nation has in the world.

 

TBH we should really really REALLY! be looking into funding thorium LTFR research its almost there, as Thorium is as common as mud (unlike uranium that's on par with platinum for rarity so we are burning platinum  of our energy whhhaha?) Also we wont ever run out. the radioactive waste is active for 14 billion years (meaning its less reactive than the potassium in a banana so its safe). and it gives off soooooooooooooooooooo much more energy.

 

You could hold your entire life's worth of energy in pure thorium in your hand.

 

While this may be true, I prefer the idea of going pure hydro/wind. We've got all that around us, why not use it?

 

That said, if we as a country can perfect Thorium reactors, and come up with a completely viable way of ensuring that no environmental impact can possibly come from it, i'm up for it 

[Nexus]

What will Scotland honestly gain from independence? Pride? Surely the economy will be worse off if they leave GB?

 

...

Ixi is almost completely right here and add a few points to what was already said.

 

On the matter of the taxes, in the current system Scotland has the legal right to spend about 10% of the tax revenue generated within Scotland. The rest goes to Westminster. This would be fine if the money was actually spent in Scotland, but if you look at the figure they show that we pay 9.4% of total UK tax while only having 8.4% of the UK total population. For further evidence to this, if you look at the report published by Cebr it shows that we receive no net subsidy (and this does not even count the huge revenue we would get from oil).

If we do get independence we would be in an even stronger position. Over 90% of the UK oil reserves are located within Scottish waters. This is asset alone is worth around one trillion. 90% of a trillion is a significant amount of money. Some have suggested that the oil reserves wont be split up according to location but rather according to population share or gdp (like all the other assets and liabilities) but this simply cannot be the case. All other nations who operate in the North Sea divide the assets according to location and its pretty much accepted that we would do the same. On the other assets and liabilities, they would be divided up by population share or gdp. That would leave us with about 8.5% of the national debt, which is a tiny amount in comparison. We would also get our share of other resources such as gold etc. When you add to this the relative ease that we have about 1/4 of the Europe's renewable energy sources in Scotland, we would most likely be selling a large share of the oil to other European nations.

 

On the politics side of the isse. If you look at every election since the 40s, you see a pattern. If you ignore all of the Scottish votes, every government would be the same. Further evidence to this is the fact that Scotland as a nation voted exactly the same in both the 2005 and 2010 we voted exactly the same and the UK government was different. This shows that right now we are underrepresented in the current system. In an independent Scotland we would be one of the most democratic countries in the world. We already are. We use a proportion representation system for general elections, and have more parties elected than Westminster. Independece would allow us to be better represented and allow us to make decisions that benefit the people of Scotland.

 

On the issue of currency. We could keep the pound sterling. Its as much a Scottish currency as it is English. Its already been stated that if we are not allowed to keep the sterling we will not be taking any of the national debt (legally we would not have to).

 

One the issue of defense. Scotland current contribute 3.5 billion towards the defense budget. Currently 1.5 billion is spent on Scotland. With independece if we kept spending as it is now, we would have more to play with. Combine this with the fact that we have some of the best shipyards in the world, we would have a reasonable defense force and be able to support jobs on the Clyde (something that Westminster seem incapable of doing and going so far as to offer contracts to other nations rather than building in the Clyde).

 

On the matter of rights to leave the UK. Of course we do. We are one of the founding member of this nation. The real question is what would the union between England, Wales and Northern Ireland be called? Great Britain refers the large island that we occupy. 

 

Basically there are no real arguments against independence that have been heard so far.

[ixi_your_face]

Ixi is almost completely right here and add a few points to what was already said.

 

On the matter of the taxes, in the current system Scotland has the legal right to spend about 10% of the tax revenue generated within Scotland. The rest goes to Westminster. This would be fine if the money was actually spent in Scotland, but if you look at the figure they show that we pay 9.4% of total UK tax while only having 8.4% of the UK total population. For further evidence to this, if you look at the report published by Cebr it shows that we receive no net subsidy (and this does not even count the huge revenue we would get from oil).

If we do get independence we would be in an even stronger position. Over 90% of the UK oil reserves are located within Scottish waters. This is asset alone is worth around one trillion. 90% of a trillion is a significant amount of money. Some have suggested that the oil reserves wont be split up according to location but rather according to population share or gdp (like all the other assets and liabilities) but this simply cannot be the case. All other nations who operate in the North Sea divide the assets according to location and its pretty much accepted that we would do the same. On the other assets and liabilities, they would be divided up by population share or gdp. That would leave us with about 8.5% of the national debt, which is a tiny amount in comparison. We would also get our share of other resources such as gold etc. When you add to this the relative ease that we have about 1/4 of the Europe's renewable energy sources in Scotland, we would most likely be selling a large share of the oil to other European nations.

 

On the politics side of the isse. If you look at every election since the 40s, you see a pattern. If you ignore all of the Scottish votes, every government would be the same. Further evidence to this is the fact that Scotland as a nation voted exactly the same in both the 2005 and 2010 we voted exactly the same and the UK government was different. This shows that right now we are underrepresented in the current system. In an independent Scotland we would be one of the most democratic countries in the world. We already are. We use a proportion representation system for general elections, and have more parties elected than Westminster. Independece would allow us to be better represented and allow us to make decisions that benefit the people of Scotland.

 

On the issue of currency. We could keep the pound sterling. Its as much a Scottish currency as it is English. Its already been stated that if we are not allowed to keep the sterling we will not be taking any of the national debt (legally we would not have to).

 

One the issue of defense. Scotland current contribute 3.5 billion towards the defense budget. Currently 1.5 billion is spent on Scotland. With independece if we kept spending as it is now, we would have more to play with. Combine this with the fact that we have some of the best shipyards in the world, we would have a reasonable defense force and be able to support jobs on the Clyde (something that Westminster seem incapable of doing and going so far as to offer contracts to other nations rather than building in the Clyde).

 

On the matter of rights to leave the UK. Of course we do. We are one of the founding member of this nation. The real question is what would the union between England, Wales and Northern Ireland be called? Great Britain refers the large island that we occupy. 

 

Basically there are no real arguments against independence that have been heard so far.

 

Hear hear!

[Str_Mape]

I fucking love your accent there in Scotland.

Sadly Linus doesn't.

[Nexus]

Hear hear!

I wrote a lot more than i thought. I need a life.

[Nexus]

Sadly Linus doesn't.

Wait, what?

How have I not heard of this.

[ixi_your_face]

I wrote a lot more than i thought. I need a life.

 

Nah man, we just need better internets up here

Wait, what?

How have I not heard of this.

He made fun of my voice once :'(

[Str_Mape]

Wait, what?

How have I not heard of this.

Early days of comms ixi called in and Linus had a decent laugh.

[ixi_your_face]

Early days of comms ixi called in and Linus had a decent laugh.

 

:( :( :( :( :( 

[Nexus]

 

Nah man, we just need better internets up here

He made fun of my voice once :'(

 

Early days of comms ixi called in and Linus had a decent laugh.

This explains much, the Glasgow accent does amuse me greatly.

 

Speak for yourself ixi. I get a full 150kbps down. My phone is actually faster.

[RatedBlam]

:( :( :( :( :(

According to this thread Scotts really like Nordic countries. I've seen some of this when there has been news about the similar history with Scandinavians. But I believe that Finland isn't a Scandinavian country :'(

[juretrn]

As non-UK citizen, I don't give half a f***. Sorry scots.

Whatever happens, my reaction will be 'kk'.

[ixi_your_face]

This explains much, the Glasgow accent does amuse me greatly.

 

Speak for yourself ixi. I get a full 150kbps down. My phone is actually faster.

 

Wow. Such speed. Very download.

 

My phone is faster than my internets too :'(

[Str_Mape]

Wow. Such speed. Very download.

 

My phone is faster than my internets too :'(

Mine is  from about 1900 - 0400

[ixi_your_face]

Mine is  from about 1900 - 0400

 

Same, just my upload on my phone is wayyyyy better

[Str_Mape]

Same, just my upload on my phone is wayyyyy better

Yea, my phone upload is always 2 - 3 x better than my PC