Research about video games increasing sexism

[tlink]

5 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

This is hardly tech news. This is a statistical study on a certain ideology that is biased by only including video games. If they want to find sexism in it, they'll find it. They'll also find it in high schools, trailer parks, large corporate offices, and sometimes in my house if they misinterpret anything I say.

 

This "-isms in video games [in particular]" stuff is garbage. Go away.

can you substantially back that up? can you prove that this research is biassed? what would be a better way to research sexism in video games? what should they have done different?

[TimeOmnivore]

8 minutes ago, tlink said:

well if you are surrounded by people that hold a certain idea you're more likely to adopt that idea. its just human nature imo, and i wouldn't see why that is any different with other factors. surrounding yourself in things that support a certain view is going to influence you. saying you're in full control over how things influence you is flat out wrong.

 

 

That's part of the reason I mentioned that this is the modern era, i.e. we have an abundance of other cultures, beliefs, personalities and people at our fingertips, so if you're only basing your bias' on the people around you, I stand by what I said in that that's on you, for not being aware of those other things. Of course, if you're someone without any access to the internet or people with differing opinions, then, yeah, I understand that you aren't to blame for your prejudice.

[NumLock21]

Some have way too much time on their hands...

[Warboy]

8 minutes ago, tlink said:

quoting flawed study's doesn't make it untrue, this is a new study. thats a fallacy fallacy. the links you posted all refer back to a single german research. 1v1 in research while my research has a larger sample size and a different approach. they are contradicting but which one is true is up for debate. they could be both true to some degree because the german research only measured gamers their increase in sexism while this research measured sexism in gamers, which is a difference (if i understood it correctly atleast)

edit: also the research includes the german research you quoted 

 

 

Someone didn't read all the links. Since The Escapist article talked about other studies.

[Memories4K]

2 minutes ago, tlink said:

well if you are surrounded by people that hold a certain idea you're more likely to adopt that idea. its just human nature imo, and i wouldn't see why that is any different with other factors. surrounding yourself in things that support a certain view is going to influence you. saying you're in full control over how things influence you is flat out wrong.

I don't know of any video games that have 100% sexist/racist/etc. casts with such messages.
There's maybe a small minority of characters within some video games that are not the main focus and are used as a device in other areas of gameplay

Now if you're talking the community who plays online video games (thus socializing) then maaaaaaybe but we have to be careful what we define as actual (BLANK)-ism.
For instance, little 11-year old Tommy on his new PC who destroyed me in Overwatch and put in chat "Damn, we raped you guise! lol ur trash"
I don't think 11-year old Tommy is a rape apologist so much as he's using the word rape in a seperate context to where he would still empathize with a real-life situation of rape; i don't think people are desensitized outside of video games when real-world shit happens and where their values are re-aligned to the real-world.

[ATFink]

Is there a way to obtain a copy of the survey through which the study operated e.i. question that were asked, how the responses were rated (as in are there are only 2 genders being a sexist statement etc.), how right wing political/religious ideological statements were interpreted? I've seen a study that assumed that right wing political behavior and being religious was proportionally correlated to sexism, and gaged sexism off ideologies that may be totally unrelated to sexism simply by determining if someone is more right wing and therefore more likely to be sexist. It was supposed to be about sexism in video games...

[tlink]

3 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

While this remains true sometimes, that isn't what this is. Most people who play video games know they're not indicative of real life. You don't get 5 wanted stars after sneezing on a fence owned by the military, and then you're fine if you just drive really fast in one direction or hide somewhere for a minute.

 

The people who are heavily influenced by video games already hold these ideologies. Video games could be a catalyst to make that thing grow in the person, but if not video games then what then? Friends? Movies?

that doesn't really matter on this scale, you are not just your consciousness. there are so many influences in the brain that we don't yet understand. just because 1 part of the brain says something doesn't mean that it completely negates the outcome. you're also using a hyperbole, not very scientific. comparing trump to hitler doesn't actually make him hitler. you miss a lot of nuance there. more subtle things might still get influenced by games because they are not obviously wrong.

[Memories4K]

If you can't prove or show real evidence that video games directly cause people to believe that those of the same/opposite sex are inferior to the other then you can't claim that video games actually affect sexism.

[tlink]

2 minutes ago, ATFink said:

Is there a way to obtain a copy of the survey through which the study operated e.i. question that were asked, how the responses were rated (as in are there are only 2 genders being a sexist statement etc.), how right wing political/religious ideological statements were interpreted? I've seen a study that assumed that right wing political behavior and being religious was proportionally correlated to sexism, and gaged sexism off ideologies that may be totally unrelated to sexism simply by determining if someone is more right wing and therefore more likely to be sexist. It was supposed to be about sexism in video games...

im not sure, they used the ISDR 2. they also quoted a study about right wing stuff and sexism, could you tell me if thats the research you're referring to?

Quote

Hunsberger, B., Owusu, V., & Duck, R. (1999). Religious prejudice in Ghana and Canada: Religious fundamentalism, right-winged authoritarianism, and attitudes toward homosexuals and women. The International Journal for the Psychology of Religion, 9, 181-194. I

 

[themctipers]

funny joke

 

i dont give a shit whats in your pants or chest or what you think you are

as long as theres no porn when not requested coughs

 

 

i had a meme for this, hold on..

[HelplmChoking]

I think it's less about the content in the game, and more about the people who play them. It may be that people who are more sexist play more games (seems reasonable, given the stereotypes out there of the maladjusted nerd) which would totally lead to online games becoming echo-chambers for that sort of thinking.

 

As always, the games aren't the issue, it's the people and how they use them.

[Mooshi]

35 minutes ago, tlink said:

they don't claim sexism on everything, they actually say they use a very narrow side of sexism. if you think the study is bollocks than point out the flaws, just saying you disagree doesn't make the study wrong. 

It's not 100% this article, it's this trend in general. If something isn't sexist, it's racist. At some point you have to focus on real issues that matter.

[tlink]

2 minutes ago, Memories4K said:

If you can't prove or show real evidence that video games directly cause people to believe that those of the same/opposite sex are inferior to the other then you can't claim that video games actually affect sexism.

we can't directly prove man made climate change either, doesn't mean its not true. we do have proof of short term sexism caused by games, this was just one of the few researches done about long term sexism. 

 

Quote

These studies show that playing sexualized video games for a few minutes (10-20 minutes) promotes men’s likelihood to endorse gender stereotypes (Behm-Morawitz & Mastro, 2009; Yao, Mahood, & Linz, 2010), increase hostile sexism (Fox & Bailenson, 2009), and increases men’s acceptance of sexual harassment (Dill, Brown & Collin, 2008)

 

[Guest Kloaked]

16 minutes ago, tlink said:

can you substantially back that up? can you prove that this research is biassed?

Gladly.

 

16 minutes ago, tlink said:

what would be a better way to research sexism in video games?

Simple: you don't. Tons of popular video games are fictional stories being told and it's the fastest growing form of entertainment for good reasons. A couple of them are that they have basically free range for creativity - basically anything goes as long as your game is actually fun and interesting to play (and if it's on PC it better actually fucking be a good PC port). Another thing is it can contain a shitload of satire, and Watch_Dogs 2 is the most recent example that I can personally come up with that hits this particular area hard and does it well. While WD2 in particular is extremely inclusive in terms of token demographics and had an overall teenage-cringe story, the game was really fun for me to play.

 

But WD2 can be easily interpreted in different ways. I could have seen it as sexist since it had many displays of topless women - the first game especially was worse in this regard since the topless women in that game were basically sex slaves. Is all of that sexist? It could be easily interpreted as sexist if you don't have context to it, and that's where that narrative comes from; people who are absolutely immune to any form of idea that is different than their own. If they think this thing is sexist, they're going to look for it and they will find it, with their misinterpretation. Video games have been a primary target for all things political (sexism, "white privilege", etc) and it's getting on my nerves.

 

So again, you don't look for sexism, because when you do that you will certainly find it. There will be people playing these games that have topless women who like seeing topless women. Do all of them treat women as objects? No. Will any of them? Yep, because like I said before, video games is the fastest growing form of entertainment and probably already is the biggest. With that, you get the sexists, the racists, the homophobes, etc. That's like taking a shit on [political figure] for having a small group of supporters who happen to be racists. They can't control that. However, people would spin that narrative up as "since these racists support [political figure], that makes [political figure] racist!". Bollocks.

 

And one more time for good measure: that's why you don't do studies like this.

16 minutes ago, tlink said:

what should they have done different?

Figure out why every school system hammers useless math equations and other borderline useless things into your head before you even get into college, and then ask why the older generations complain about millennials not knowing how taxes work, how to actually get a job, what bills are, how credit works, etc.

 

10 minutes ago, tlink said:

that doesn't really matter on this scale, you are not just your consciousness.

I'm 100% sure any decision that I make, I make it willingly. I am very self-aware and I like to think I have a good moral compass. Some people don't, but most people do as they believe in not being an absolute dick to everyone that they meet, which is a great standard to live by.

 

10 minutes ago, tlink said:

there are so many influences in the brain that we don't yet understand. just because 1 part of the brain says something doesn't mean that it completely negates the outcome.

I'm not going to pretend I know how the brain works, and you shouldn't either. You're stringing together a fake argument here to be honest.

 

10 minutes ago, tlink said:

you're also using a hyperbole, not very scientific. comparing trump to hitler doesn't actually make him hitler. you miss a lot of nuance there. more subtle things might still get influenced by games because they are not obviously wrong.

There's also nothing scientific about looking for sexism in video games. Like I said before, you will find it. The context is what matters.

 

I also feel like you're just stringing together another retort here, but I'll bit: what did I miss specifically? What subtle things can still influence someone through a game?

[tlink]

1 minute ago, Mooshi said:

It's not 100% this article, it's this trend in general. If something isn't sexist, it's racist. At some point you have to focus on real issues that matter.

that doesn't make it untrue. that you want to ignore an issue is on you, that doesn't dismiss data.

[Memories4K]

Just now, tlink said:

that doesn't really matter on this scale, you are not just your consciousness. there are so many influences in the brain that we don't yet understand. just because 1 part of the brain says something doesn't mean that it completely negates the outcome. you're also using a hyperbole, not very scientific. comparing trump to hitler doesn't actually make him hitler. you miss a lot of nuance there. more subtle things might still get influenced by games because they are not obviously wrong.

Well in this context, in what way do video games actually increase sexism?
If i call someone a cunt, bitch, dick, cuck, bastard, etc. (gendered slurs, but really used indiscriminately in online play) am i a sexist?

What if i don't use any of those words and plainly say in team chat "I think women are an inferior part of our species guise. Yes, good game to you too Tommy11analthrasher69. I'm glad to be in a community that doesn't use bad words."

Or what if you say something controversial but not wrong? Such as "Men and women are different due to things such as testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone" or "The wage gap is misleading, the numbers reported are actually an earnings gap"

Nuance and intuition are good, but there's a difference between nuance and seeing things where they don't exist.
Making bold claims with no real evidence like "video games increase sexism" doesn't help to combat ACTUAL sexism or sexist behavior, such as how the religious-ruled Saudi Arabia oppresses women by requiring certain garb to be worn as is the culture. (Not deflecting but an example of "perceived influence of sexism" vs real influence of sexism)

[Memories4K]

4 minutes ago, tlink said:

we can't directly prove man made climate change either, doesn't mean its not true. we do have proof of short term sexism caused by games, this was just one of the few researches done about long term sexism. 

 

 

We don't have proof; i'm not seeing the causation that separates reality from fiction.
Me running over prostitutes in GTA is not me having a higher acceptance of sexual violence.
Me accidentally (not counting) killing 70% men over 30% women in GTA V doesn't mean i hate men and am a misandrist.

[Warboy]

4 minutes ago, tlink said:

that doesn't make it untrue. that you want to ignore an issue is on you, that doesn't dismiss data.

Your goto default reply. If you can't engage in logic, then you shouldn't be asking people to dispute you or the article. That folks is called an agenda.

[Guest Kloaked]

3 minutes ago, Memories4K said:

Well in this context, in what way do video games actually increase sexism?
If i call someone a cunt, bitch, dick, cuck, bastard, etc. (gendered slurs, but really used indiscriminately in online play) am i a sexist?

What if i don't use any of those words and plainly say in team chat "I think women are an inferior part of our species guise. Yes, good game to you too Tommy11analthrasher69. I'm glad to be in a community that doesn't use bad words."

Or what if you say something controversial but not wrong? Such as "Men and women are different due to things such as testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone" or "The wage gap is misleading, the numbers reported are actually an earnings gap"

Nuance and intuition are good, but there's a difference between nuance and seeing things where they don't exist.
Making bold claims with no real evidence like "video games increase sexism" doesn't help to combat ACTUAL sexism or sexist behavior, such as how the religious-ruled Saudi Arabia oppresses women by requiring certain garb to be worn as is the culture. (Not deflecting but an example of "perceived influence of sexism" vs real influence of sexism)

Wow, @Memories4K confirmed sexist. Can't believe this smh

[Taf the Ghost]

Since, unfortunately, I know how to read research studies, a quick recap:

 

- They've assumed their answer.

- They spend a LOT of pages justifying why they got this grant.

- They asked 1 badly constructed question...

- With all of 4 options.

 

" Sexism was measured with a single-item question. Participants were asked the following Likert-type question: “A woman is made mainly for making and raising children”, from fully disagree (1) to fully agree (4), M = 1.53; SD = 0.9)."

 

Results: " Preliminary analyses indicated that sexism was higher among males (M = 1.71, SD = 0.98 vs M = 1.35, SD = 0.77, tcor(12922) = 23.59)"

 

I believe that's Males @ 1.71 and Females @ 1.35, but there seems to be a few typographical errors throughout. 

 

The shortest way to explain: ALL of their stats are worthless.  All of them.  You cannot draw any useful statistical relevance from that type of data set.  Especially not to draw any conclusion from it.

 

I can draw 1 conclusion: whatever the French word for "mainly" is *might* be interpreted differently between male & female high school-aged students.  Maybe.

 

Edit: Actually, there is some population survey involved, so there's roughly 25% Catholics & Muslims in the schools that responded.  (About half from the two cities they set the study in, but almost none of the top-ranked schools.)

[Notional]

9 minutes ago, tlink said:

we can't directly prove man made climate change either, doesn't mean its not true.

No, but until it is proven, it's just a speculation. Speculations are often there to support a narrative or agenda you have.

[babadoctor]

43 minutes ago, tlink said:

? so? are you implying that they don't influence us?

yes i am implying that they dont influence us

 

because they dont

[Memories4K]

Just now, Kloaked said:

Wow, @Memories4K confirmed sexist. Can't believe this smh

Ya got me.

[tlink]

2 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

Gladly.

 

Simple: you don't. Tons of popular video games are fictional stories being told and it's the fastest growing form of entertainment for good reasons. A couple of them are that they have basically free range for creativity - basically anything goes as long as your game is actually fun and interesting to play (and if it's on PC it better actually fucking be a good PC port). Another thing is it can contain a shitload of satire, and Watch_Dogs 2 is the most recent example that I can personally come up with that hits this particular area hard and does it well. While WD2 in particular is extremely inclusive in terms of token demographics and had an overall teenage-cringe story, the game was really fun for me to play.

 

But WD2 can be easily interpreted in different ways. I could have seen it as sexist since it had many displays of topless women - the first game especially was worse in this regard since the topless women in that game were basically sex slaves. Is all of that sexist? It could be easily interpreted as sexist if you don't have context to it, and that's where that narrative comes from; people who are absolutely immune to any form of idea that is different than their own. If they think this thing is sexist, they're going to look for it and they will find it, with their misinterpretation. Video games have been a primary target for all things political (sexism, "white privilege", etc) and it's getting on my nerves.

 

So again, you don't look for sexism, because when you do that you will certainly find it. There will be people playing these games that have topless women who like seeing topless women. Do all of them treat women as objects? No. Will any of them? Yep, because like I said before, video games is the fastest growing form of entertainment and probably already is the biggest. With that, you get the sexists, the racists, the homophobes, etc. That's like taking a shit on [political figure] for having a small group of supporters who happen to be racists. They can't control that. However, people would spin that narrative up as "since these racists support [political figure], that makes [political figure] racist!". Bollocks.

 

And one more time for good measure: that's why you don't do studies like this.

Figure out why every school system hammers useless math equations and other borderline useless things into your head before you even get into college, and then ask why the older generations complain about millennials not knowing how taxes work, how to actually get a job, what bills are, how credit works, etc.

they didn't use a broad idea of sexism, they actually used a very narrow one. if you have more information on what question(s) actually where asked than feel free to give them because that would support your claim, otherwise its a baseless claim.

Quote

It should also be mentioned that the use of a single-item scale to assess sexism was less than optimal. This item was actually the only measure of sexism in the ISRD2 survey, and represents a very specific dimension of sexism (motherhood or domesticity) that hardly captures all possible forms of sexist thinking

 

[suicidalfranco]

33 minutes ago, TimeOmnivore said:

If you're not capable of separating fiction from reality and deriving your own conclusions/bias/opinions from real life experiences, that's on you, not the media you consume, whatever form it may be in. Some games are definitely sexist to some extent, but if you are only capable of using those games as your only source of reference for how people of a certain gender/race/religion/etc "should" act and behave, that just shows that your naivete and means you need to get out more. In any event, I firmly believe that, in the modern era, only the individual is to blame for their bias and prejudice, not the media they consume, regardless of whether that media perpetuates it or not.

on the phone, can someone give this man a cookie and a clapping shia labouf gif please and thank you