Mild Criticism of LTT Tests

[Bouzoo]

1 minute ago, SSL said:

 

It's an excuse for sub-par quality, is that that is. Basically, it just makes my point. As you say, they are not in the business of technical benchmarks, so why half-ass them? Stick to their strengths of outreach and communication and rely on better-equipped primary sources like Anand and PCPer to do the legwork. Remember that Linus called his company "Linus Media Group", not "Linus Tech Group".

Yet the specific channel is called Linus Tech Tips. The thing is, they have among the highest watched, if not the highest watched launch videos on Youtube (iirc their 980Ti review is the highest watched), so they will absolutely not give up their chunk of views, and neither should they, so why not make things properly? We are not asking from them to go full PCPer or Anand or TPUP, but more very crucial info would help. In times like this, I always, always go to written review, no video has so many info, not even the 30 min ones, but this could benefit them in the eyes of more mature audience that cares about quality and facts.

[dalekphalm]

20 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

Did you happen to watch the video with him and Louis Rossmann? I know not everyone is a fan of Louis for valid reasons, but Linus looked and sounded so out of place in Louis' shop.

I did see that video. Louis Rossmann doesn't have the same kind of charisma or on-screen personality, and he's blunt and abrasive - that's why people don't like him. I get it, certainly. But he's goddamn smart in his field. I've seen various videos from Louis' channel. Some are actually watchable. And they're always very informative. Plus it's hilarious to watch him get really fucking pissed off and rant about someone (*cough* Linus).

19 minutes ago, SSL said:

 

A lot of these tech YT channels are in kind of a weird gray area between people like Marques Brownlee, who make vacuous, consumer-oriented drivel, and the likes of PCPer. In other words, they want to have their cake and eat it too.

True, but people like Marques do have a valid reason for existing, as they look at things from a Consumer standpoint. How does it feel? What does it look like? Is the UI intuitive, etc. These are things that the more technical channels either skip over completely, or can't properly relate to, because they cannot disassociate their knowledge to how a "regular Joe" would use a device.

 

Obviously, Marques shouldn't be making technical benchmark reviews, etc. But he does offer a perspective that an average consumer would value.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Honestly this is becoming such a convoluted topic that few people will spend the time and energy grasping and understanding what any of these metrics mean and how to apply them. They just see numbers and stroke their egos with them.

 

To take an example, I like AnandTech, but I don't think a lot of people understand or appreciate half of the content that Ian Curtis or Ryan Smith write. They just care about the graphs at the latter half of their articles.

[Nexxus]

In light of this Ryzen review, I think you really need to re-evaluate how your gaming benchmarks are done because they are flawed. Yes in the video you showed that in raw FPS numbers the 1800x is crushed, you also showed this on an old ass game on a display with an absurd refresh rate and furthermore the ryzen numbers matched up with that rate so it seemed like a non-issue. On top of that, it very much seemed like an afterthought of the video.

Having seen your Ryzen video I found myself saying shit..I could really see myself getting an AMD chip in the future if trends continue. 

Then I looked at gamersnexus where they did all there testing in a way that way NOT GPU bottlenecked by resolution and the results show much more what the 1800x is capable of in gaming. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

is it not until we start running at 1440 resolution we start seeing numbers more in line with (the majority) of your gaming benchmarks.
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

I am not going to say you are biased, or paid off. But I do strongly think you need to reconsider how you do your gaming testing in the future. I went out of your video thinking "I could see myself getting an AMD system in the future if trends continue like this" to "yeah I won't be touching this with a 10ft pole if trends continue like this" after looking at GNs numbers. 

[Guest Kloaked]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

Honestly this is becoming such a convoluted topic that few people will spend the time and energy grasping and understanding what any of these metrics mean and how to apply them. They just see numbers and stroke their egos with them.

 

To take an example, I like AnandTech, but I don't think a lot of people understand or appreciate half of the content that Ian Curtis or Ryan Smith write. They just care about the graphs at the latter half of their articles.

Then it needs to be explained briefly what frame latency is and what it translates to what you see on the screen, among the other things that directly affect what the experience will be like. It's not that hard.

[vanished]

If you want to see minimums tested really well (imo) and resolutions below 4K, check out this video:

 

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Honestly this is becoming such a convoluted topic that few people will spend the time and energy grasping and understanding what any of these metrics mean and how to apply them. They just see numbers and stroke their egos with them.

 

To take an example, I like AnandTech, but I don't think a lot of people understand or appreciate half of the content that Ian Curtis or Ryan Smith write. They just care about the graphs at the latter half of their articles.

True, but that's why the graphs exist, for people who don't care about the technical details to jump in and see the "basic" information. We can't expect everyone to have the technical ability to understand half the stuff in a Anand or PCPer article.

 

Also, that's why those particular publications use a Conclusion section at the end of their article, to attempt to distill the technical detail into a basic form of information that less technically inclined people can understand.

[SSL]

8 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

True, but people like Marques do have a valid reason for existing, as they look at things from a Consumer standpoint. How does it feel? What does it look like? Is the UI intuitive, etc. These are things that the more technical channels either skip over completely, or can't properly relate to, because they cannot disassociate their knowledge to how a "regular Joe" would use a device.

 

Obviously, Marques shouldn't be making technical benchmark reviews, etc. But he does offer a perspective that an average consumer would value.

 

Yes, and my point is that a lot of YT "tech" channels are in an awkward in-between where they aren't able to adequately cater to either audience.

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, Kloaked said:

Then it needs to be explained briefly what frame latency is and what it translates to what you see on the screen, among the other things that directly affect what the experience will be like. It's not that hard.

A lot of people won't care or understand what that really means. They just see a number and use it as ammo in their fanboy wars.

[The Sloth]

no offense, i thought Linus video was more reasonable what most people will be playing with

most games are fine with Ryzen

[App4that]

1 minute ago, nerdslayer1 said:

no offense, i thought Linus video was more reasonable what most people will be playing with

most games are fine with Ryzen

No they're not.

 

 

[The Sloth]

1 minute ago, App4that said:

No they're not.

 

 

 

whats the problem? were you expecting it to be faster than a 7700k in single core task and games? 

[TomR]

GamersNexus is always my go-to channel when I want information.

[Nexxus]

Just now, nerdslayer1 said:

no offense, i thought Linus video was more reasonable what most people will be playing with

most games are fine with Ryzen

 

while it maybe "reasonable" at the resolution most people are running at it is falling significantly behind intel chips. This was not the impression I got from linus's video where the 1800x was comparable with anything on offer from intel. 

Furthermore, as graphics cards get more powerful (and these are swapped out more often for newer ones than CPUs) 1440 and 4k benchmarks will become less and less of a thing. and the deficit of Ryzen over a 7700k (which I can get for LESS then an 1800x even when it isn't on sale) will become more apparent

[Nexxus]

2 minutes ago, nerdslayer1 said:

whats the problem? were you expecting it to be faster than a 7700k in single core task and games? 

The problem is with Linus's video one can reach that conclusion. 

[App4that]

Just now, nerdslayer1 said:

whats the problem? were you expecting it to be faster than a 7700k in single core task and games? 

Yes. That was the hype, we knew it was BS but that didn't stop the hype train from chugging along. 

 

The price drop puts the 7700k under the 1700.

 

Also catch the end of that video where GN catches AMD flat out trying to trick you. Classic

[The Sloth]

Just now, Nexxus said:

The problem is with Linus's video one can reach that conclusion. 

i don't understand, he should give you facts not conclusion. 

[The Sloth]

1 minute ago, App4that said:

Yes. That was the hype, we knew it was BS but that didn't stop the hype train from chugging along. 

 

The price drop puts the 7700k under the 1700.

 

Also catch the end of that video where GN catches AMD flat out trying to trick you. Classic

 

- hype train was stupid, also free marketing

- no price drop only micro center

 

[Bouzoo]

A there is a thread for that already.   

 

 

[Nexxus]

Just now, nerdslayer1 said:

i don't understand, he should give you facts not conclusion. 

And he didn't clearly outline all the facts. 

He never gave me a conclusion, thus my usage of the term "one can reach that conclusion." im saying one can reach the conclusion that they are on a level playing field when they very much are not. 

[Nexxus]

Just now, Bouzoo said:

A there is a thread for that already.   

 

 

 

My bad, feel free to report the thread if you must but I feel that this thread is still valid because  A) ive tweeted it to linus hoping he'll see it and see the issue and B) I have included substantial evidence to my claims. 

[App4that]

Just now, nerdslayer1 said:

- hype train was stupid, also free marketing

- no price drop only micro center

 

No, just with how bad Ryzen performs in games you won't see anyone else honor the MSRP. 

[The Sloth]

Just now, App4that said:

No, just with how bad Ryzen performs in games you won't see anyone else honor the MSRP. 

what games does it badly performs in? its pretty good in most popular games and can handle AAA titles well. 

[App4that]

Just now, nerdslayer1 said:

what games does it badly performs in? its pretty good in most popular games and can handle AAA titles well. 

I litteraly linked you the video. My 4790k at it's stock frequency beats the 1800x. 

[Nexxus]

Just now, nerdslayer1 said:

what games does it badly performs in? its pretty good in most popular games and can handle AAA titles well. 

considering its unable to hold its own against a chip that 2...going on 3 years old I would say its performing pretty bad.