New MacBooks have upgradable ssds - but its proprietary

[Bleedingyamato]

3 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Some NVME PCIE SSD that's soldered to the motherboard (so as a result, it's not super fast -- 660 read, 460 write.

It's NVME. Both are going to be irrelevantly long anyway, so it doesn't really matter. 

Why would it not be very fast?    PCIE is a very fast connection isn't it?

 

Why would SATA3 and NVME SSD be irrelevant?

 

3 hours ago, Dackzy said:

NVMe ofc, SATA3 cannot have those speeds and you can see that the IOPs on the 960 EVO are much higher than the 950 pro, so the lifespand is longer

I don't think IOPs has anything to do with lifespan does it?

 

3 hours ago, DocSwag said:

I'm pretty sure it's an sm951 or something similar. It's made by Samsung for sure, and I'm pretty sure they use pcie 2.0 x4, except with a proprietary connector (so it's not compatible with m.2, the pins are in different places).

Why would Apple use an outdated version of PCIE?  

 

When they're praising themselves for using such a supposedly top of the line NVME SSD why limit it by using a slower connection than exists?

[jagdtigger]

21 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Why would it not be very fast?    PCIE is a very fast connection isn't it?

 

Why would SATA3 and NVME SSD be irrelevant?

 

I don't think IOPs has anything to do with lifespan does it?

 

Why would Apple use an outdated version of PCIE?  

 

When they're praising themselves for using such a supposedly top of the line NVME SSD why limit it by using a slower connection than exists?

You are right, it depends on the nand type. SLC has the longest life, but its expensive. MLC is a compromise between manufacturing cost and life span. TLC is the cheapest but it has the shortest lifespan. And in terms of speed it shows a similar tendency: SLC>MLC>TLC

[Dackzy]

37 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

 

 

 

IOPs is how many times it is rated to write and read, in most cases you can go above that.

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

If you don't like MacOS, then of course you shouldn't buy a Mac, but if you like MacOS or are don't have a preference, then they're generally priced competitively with other ultrabooks, and are thus worth considering. 

Considering you pretty much said the same thing I said, I take it you're in agreement (buy a Mac if you like OSX, don't if you don't like OSX). 

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Considering you pretty much said the same thing I said, I take it you're in agreement (buy a Mac if you like OSX, don't if you don't like OSX). 

what if you love OSX but hate current hardware (everything after 2012 is shit to me)

[DocSwag]

2 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Why would Apple use an outdated version of PCIE?  

 

When they're praising themselves for using such a supposedly top of the line NVME SSD why limit it by using a slower connection than exists?

It might be because the chipset built into the processor only gives out pcie 2.0 lanes. Plus, it's not really like the SSD can use the extra bandwidth...

[79wjd]

3 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Why would it not be very fast?    PCIE is a very fast connection isn't it?

 

Why would SATA3 and NVME SSD be irrelevant?

 

I don't think IOPs has anything to do with lifespan does it?

 

Why would Apple use an outdated version of PCIE?  

 

When they're praising themselves for using such a supposedly top of the line NVME SSD why limit it by using a slower connection than exists?

I pulled those speeds from Anandtech's review. The SSD is part of the mtherboard, so they assume that's why. 

 

I meant that they'll both last irrelevantly long. (NVME is PCIE only btw). And apple didn't use an outdated version, it's just the way that there aren't many flash chips (due to space constraints). 

[Bleedingyamato]

4 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

You are right, it depends on the nand type. SLC has the longest life, but its expensive. MLC is a compromise between manufacturing cost and life span. TLC is the cheapest but it has the shortest lifespan. And in terms of speed it shows a similar tendency: SLC>MLC>TLC

So which type does Apple use?

[Bleedingyamato]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

I pulled those speeds from Anandtech's review. The SSD is part of the mtherboard, so they assume that's why. 

 

I meant that they'll both last irrelevantly long. (NVME is PCIE only btw). And apple didn't use an outdated version, it's just the way that there aren't many flash chips (due to space constraints). 

So you mean that using a NVME SSD like a 950 pro on an m.2 connector that supports NVME means it's connecting using PCIE through that m.2 connector?

 

If there's PCIE 3.0 and Apple used 2.0 how is that not outdated?  I'm confused...

[comicsansms]

9 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Apple didn't create Mini-DVI though. A select few laptops did use Mini-DVI iirc. Nor can you make the argument for Mini-DisplayPort, because the industry would eventually adopt DisplayPort as a whole.

Not true, mini-DVI was exclusively used by Apple. Mini-DP is standard (not a standard I like, but what can I do?) 

 

Also I forgot to mention mini-VGA, (other manufacturers have their own proprietary mini VGA cables, but they are not the same) 

 

 

[Bleedingyamato]

2 hours ago, DocSwag said:

It might be because the chipset built into the processor only gives out pcie 2.0 lanes. Plus, it's not really like the SSD can use the extra bandwidth...

NVME isn't fast enough to max out a PCIE 3.0 connection? (depending on if it's a x1 or x4 connection I assume)

[Bleedingyamato]

2 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

what if you love OSX but hate current hardware (everything after 2012 is shit to me)

There's word for what you need then but it's not technically legal.

[PlayStation 2]

3 minutes ago, Comic_Sans_MS said:

Not true, Apple DVI was exclusively used by Apple. Mini-DP is standard (not a standard I like, but what can I do?) 

 

Also I forgot to mention mini-VGA, (other manufacturers have their own proprietary mini VGA cables, but they are not the same) 

 

 

Mini-DVI, not Apple DVI. Both are different.

[comicsansms]

Just now, Dan Castellaneta said:

Mini-DVI, not Apple DVI. Both are different.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DVI

Mini-DVI is Apple, ADC (apple DVI) is also apple, but a different connector. 

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, Comic_Sans_MS said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-DVI

Mini-DVI is Apple, ADC (apple DVI) is also apple, but a different connector. 

ah

was a bit confused mainly because of wording

[comicsansms]

2 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

ah

was a bit confused mainly because of wording

Fuck auto correct! 

[79wjd]

25 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

So you mean that using a NVME SSD like a 950 pro on an m.2 connector that supports NVME means it's connecting using PCIE through that m.2 connector?

 

If there's PCIE 3.0 and Apple used 2.0 how is that not outdated?  I'm confused...

Yes. M.2 is just a connector that uses the PCIE interface. 

 

According to Anandtech, it's a core M limitation (plus, it has a max bandwidth of 2GB/s, which the SSD is nowhere near saturating, so that's not the reason for the "slow" speeds).

[DocSwag]

4 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

NVME isn't fast enough to max out a PCIE 3.0 connection? (depending on if it's a x1 or x4 connection I assume)

Not most modern SSDs, as far as I know. Even SSDs like the SM951 (which I believe is what's used in the 2015 macbook pro) tend to get less than 2 GB/s in synthetic tests, let alone the lower bandwidth numbers they get in real world scenarios. pcie 2.0 x4 is above 2 GB/s if I remember correctly, so it really doesn't matter in the 2015 Macbook Pro.

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

Not most modern SSDs, as far as I know. Even SSDs like the SM951 (which I believe is what's used in the 2015 macbook pro) tend to get less than 2 GB/s in synthetic tests, let alone the lower bandwidth numbers they get in real world scenarios. pcie 2.0 x4 is above 2 GB/s if I remember correctly, so it really doesn't matter in the 2015 Macbook Pro.

According to Apple the 2016 MBP gets up to 3.1GB/s (also the 960 Evo/Pro too), so we should start seeing SSDs push past 2.0x4.

[bigneo]

On 10/29/2016 at 2:58 PM, lots of unexplainable lag said:

So 3rd party SSD makers like OCZ will make one of these. Big deal.

 

I'm more surprised by the fact that it isn't soldered to the motherboard.

 

Soldering hardware like this to the motherboard doesn't make sense because if the part fails, more than likely you will have to replace the whole thing.

[alexyy]

1 hour ago, bigneo said:

On 29/10/2016 at 2:58 PM, lots of unexplainable lag said:

 

Soldering hardware like this to the motherboard doesn't make sense because if the part fails, more than likely you will have to replace the whole thing.

So more profit for apple, see how this works right?

[bigneo]

Just now, alexyy said:

So more profit for apple, see how this works right?

How is this profit if it fails under warranty? Whatever they are doing atm is working and they making money so...

[alexyy]

1 hour ago, bigneo said:

How is this profit if it fails under warranty? Whatever they are doing atm is working and they making money so...

Assuming its still in warranty and they will either fix it themselves or use a refurbished part to fix it.

[goodtofufriday]

Remind me not to post apple topics ever again.

[DocSwag]

9 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

According to Apple the 2016 MBP gets up to 3.1GB/s (also the 960 Evo/Pro too), so we should start seeing SSDs push past 2.0x4.

Really?

 

Well then it probably has pcie 3.0 x4