New MacBooks have upgradable ssds - but its proprietary

[QueenDemetria]

Apple finally adds the ability to remove the SSD and people are mad? What is wrong with you people, is there no pleasing you? Consumers I swear...

[Daveeede]

I know this has nothing to do with OP's post, but nobody has better build quality than Apple. I have an XPS 15 and I think that my 2010 MBP was more solidly built.

 

That being said Windows laptops will always offer better price to performance, but at the cost of other things.

 

I think the bias against Apple products on this forum is a bit unjustified. Kind of disappointing. 

[comicsansms]

14 minutes ago, QueenDemetria said:

Apple finally adds the ability to remove the SSD and people are mad? What is wrong with you people, is there no pleasing you? Consumers I swear...

Finally? No, they have have replaceable SSDs since they started selling laptops with SSDs.

When they went to PCIe SSDs, they made them propitiatory, now they are making them a different propitiatory interface.

(Top MBA 2013 propitiatory PCIe SSD, Bottom: MBA 2012 M.2 SATA SSD.)

 

I believe the problem was that people didn't know the older macbook's had propitiatory SSDs, so they are pissed off that this round is also propitiatory. 

[QueenDemetria]

1 hour ago, Comic_Sans_MS said:

Finally? No, they have have replaceable SSDs since they started selling laptops with SSDs.

When they went to PCIe SSDs, they made them propitiatory, now they are making them a different propitiatory interface.

(Top MBA 2013 propitiatory PCIe SSD, Bottom: MBA 2012 M.2 SATA SSD.)

 

I believe the problem was that people didn't know the older macbook's had propitiatory SSDs, so they are pissed off that this round is also propitiatory. 

I wasn't sure if 'all' MacBooks had soldered like the Core M MacBook, since I really don't care about Apple products, but I wanted to point out the flawed logic and hypocrisy in the comments I have read. A lot of the hate is unjustified or irrelevant yet people still spew it.

1 hour ago, Jorgen297 said:

dude we're not mad about that but the fact it's proprietary lol

Haven't Apple products always been proprietary?(as Comic Sans pointed out, this news shouldnt be a shocker to anybody) And wasn't M.2 considered proprietary when all we had was SATA and mSATA(which was a total mess)? The fact that it's proprietary shouldnt matter(you can't upgrade it with standard components, get over it. Can you use a HP fan in your Dell laptop?), the only way I could understand the hate is if these SSD's are relatively slow, have Short life life spans, or an abnormally high failure rate, which we have yet to see any of this.

[RedRound2]

13 hours ago, goodtofufriday said:

I'd argue differently. But if anything therein lies the problem. MBP of 2013 was an actual professional laptop. Now you can barely tell the difference between the non-pro line.  

 

 

 

It is professional grade. I think you saw the WAN show and Linus's opinion rubbed on you. It has the specs for performing really well in FCPX (heck the 12" MacBook could do it) and Adobe Suite is usually more stable in macOS hence why professionals use Macs in the first place.

 

@LinusTech I really want LMG to experiment of FCPX when they get the MBP, but one request will never be seen by Linus unless everyone asks for it (which no one will because they'll be scared that Apple will steal Linus's heart)

12 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Sorry but that oled thingy is mostly just a gimmick, touch ID could be useful but if you store any critical data on them i wouldn't trust in it. Sticking the "Pro" name onto these weaklings is a shameful act on apple's part, especially the ones with  the "U" CPU's. On top of all this those high res displays need a dGPU instead of the pathetic iGPU...

 

 

 

OLED is actually very useful. Word prediction has always been useful on phones and now it has basically come in laptops. The DJ demo looked really cool and photoshop was just the brink of possibilities. Plus this is replacing the function keys which most people only used it for shortcuts and you're complaining about a dynamic shortcut bar.

 

And just for the record, whenever Apple does release something new and innovative haters keep hating on how it's gimmicky until the exact same feature it spread across the entire industry in 1-2 years

 

Touch ID with Apple's secure enclave is very secure. I would say you are a bit paranoid if you're scared to store credit card info under touch ID when most people just save it random websites they buy stuff from.

 

Most 13" have dual core CPUs with "U" CPUs including XPS 13 without dGPUs and I don't understand why people like Linus don't realize that fact (He seemed very stupid saying that). It's obviously because of Battery constraints, but no people completely forget about it.

 

And iGPUs are capable for video editing as I just tried Premier Pro on the shitty iGPU laptop I got from my uni

Second, Apple laptops usually have very good optimization going on so it will definitely perform better than a Windows counterpart with same specs comapred to tasks like video editing

And third, even Surface tablet is named Surface Pro, but no one complains about it's naming scheme

[79wjd]

9 minutes ago, Jorgen297 said:

Fans are easily rewired lol but Apple always pulls this shit, every time, they change chargers and connectors like every generation even tho it doesn't improve anything or even change anything just so people have to buy new stuff, this isn't about creating a new m2 kind of connector it's about forcing consumers to buy apple, what a completely morally shitty company that's not eco friendly at all. 

Apple has had three chargers on the iPod/iPhone in the past two decades. In 2001 when the very first iPod launched it had a firewire connector. Then two years later they changed it to the 30 pin connector (thereby allowing USB support, and being a smaller connector) (which remained the standard for 9.5 years). Then they switched to lightning and have kept it for 4 years (and will either keep it for years to come or swap it for USB-C).

 

On the Mac side of things, Magsafe 1 was introduced in 2006 and was replaced by Magsafe 2 in 2012. And then now they switched to USB-C. 

 

The switch from firewire to 30 pin to lightning all made sense and were all better connectors. Magsafe 2 was just thinner (but also adapted so easily it's basically irrelevant), and USB-C is again, another superior jump.

 

 

How is Apple any less eco friendly than literally any other company? Did Apple kill your mother or something.....what is it that they did that offended you so much that you make shit up just to attack them. 

[comicsansms]

3 minutes ago, QueenDemetria said:

I wasn't sure if 'all' MacBooks had soldered like the Core M MacBook, since I really don't care about Apple products,

Nah, just the Macbook 2015/2016

3 minutes ago, QueenDemetria said:

but I wanted to point out the flawed logic and hypocrisy in the comments I have read. A lot of the hate is unjustified or irrelevant yet people still spew it.

Agreed

3 minutes ago, QueenDemetria said:

Haven't Apple products always been proprietary?

Lets list Apple's propitiatory display standards they have used in the past 15 years.

DB15 (VGA using a different connector), ADC (Also known as "Apple DVI" on Apple's support page), Mini-DVI.

3 minutes ago, QueenDemetria said:

And wasn't M.2 considered proprietary when all we had was SATA and mSATA(which was a total mess)?

I have no idea what mSATA SSD or M.2 SSD was needed for the work laptops and I wasn't going to order 15 $125 SSDs that I didn't know if they would work or not (Plus they would have been annoying to image), so I went with good old 2.5" SATA SSDs instead.

[RedRound2]

14 minutes ago, Jorgen297 said:

Fans are easily rewired lol but Apple always pulls this shit, every time,

they change chargers and connectors like every generation even tho it doesn't improve anything

 

 

That's just straight up false. They replaced 30mm with Lightning which is vastly superior and although MagSafe was better they're moving into a universal standard which people like you complain about when in reality it's actually a good thing

Quote

or even change anything just so people have to buy new stuff, this isn't about creating a new m2 kind of connector it's about forcing consumers to buy apple,

 

 

Except whenever they do that the Industry leaps forward into the future. I don't see how the PCIe slot is going to affect anyone especially since 256GB is actually more than enough for all kinds of apps you're going to install (except games)

Quote

what a completely morally shitty company that's not eco friendly at all. 

Well, the company is actually very eco-friendly. Have't you seen how they use mostly renewable sources for like about 80% of any Apple related buildings.

I think you meant consumer friendly, but IMO they are if you look at it from a different perspective. Their laptops are solidly built at lasts twice as long as most Windows laptops. The offer a lot of convenience features if you invest in their ecosystem. Although ports move they've been doing this year seems a bit unfriendly, it's going to benefit us in a major way in about 2 years where all legacy will be phased out in favor of Type-C. Unless Apple hadn't done this I'm pretty sure we would have to struggle with both legacy and type c ports for at least 5 years 

[QueenDemetria]

1 hour ago, Jorgen297 said:

Fans are easily rewired lol but Apple always pulls this shit, every time, they change chargers and connectors like every generation even tho it doesn't improve anything or even change anything just so people have to buy new stuff, this isn't about creating a new m2 kind of connector it's about forcing consumers to buy apple, what a completely morally shitty company that's not eco friendly at all. 

Oh yeah, they change chargers/connectors every generation? The iPhones/Pods/Pads have only had two connectors over the span of 9 years, and the MacBook has only seen 3 connectors over its 10 year span(magsafe, Magsafe 2, and Type-C), and I think we can all agree that Type-C is far superior than Magsafe and the various Barrel connectors found on Windows based PC's. Apple isn't forcing any body to do anything. If you like what you see, then buy, but if not then just dont buy. And Apple doesn't lock down SSDs like Windows based PC manufactures lock down WiFi cards, so companies like OWC can Manufacture "Mac" SSD's, and maybe if other companies grow a pair(Samsung, Kingston, etc.) they would make Mac compatible SSDs too.

 

Really, I don't see the issue here. If you don't like the proprietary SSD, then don't buy it, simple as that. Don't make an issue out of something that isnt an issue.

 

On a side note, I can't replace the SSD in my Android phone, but that's okay.

[RedRound2]

1 minute ago, Jorgen297 said:

Their planned obsolescence and active lobbying against the right to repair bill is not eco friendly no matter how renewable their sources are. 

1

That's whole different issue. And besides they do recycle every device they get back, haven't you seen Apple's Liam.

 

The issue here is Apple doesn't want local repair shops to repair their products, becasue if anything happens after while after being repaired general consumers will blame Apple for it rather than the repair shop for screwing up something. Besides, Apple doesn't trust themselves too as they replace the entire compnenet with a fully working one to ensure that problem doesn't arise (hence why repairs are expensive).

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, Jorgen297 said:

1. You say past 2 decades like ipods have even been out since 1996, you're clearly trying to bend the language to give a favorable presentation of apple.

 

2. But you can't manipulate me, see you gotta be smarter than me to manipulate me.

Called it right away. 

 

3. Their planned obsolescence and

 

4. active lobbying against the right to repair bill is not eco friendly no matter how renewable their sources are. 

1. Is your argument really so weak that you're going to argue about four years? Apple has had three connectors over a 16 year (and 7 day) period. The first one was when they used standard firewire (and only last two years), then 30 pin gave USB support and remained for 9.5 years, and now lightning for the past 4. I don't need to bend shit to my favor. That's FAR from "changing like every generation", and is actually quite reasonable. 

 

2. How clever, now if only your arguments held any water whatsoever. 

 

3. Planned obsolescence? Remind me again how the four year old iPhone 5 still can run the latest version of iOS yet the Galaxy S3 only supports up to Jelly Bean and both were released within a month of each other (hell, even the Galaxy S6 only supports up to Marshmallow).

 

4. I don't think you know what eco friendly means. 

[QueenDemetria]

1 hour ago, Jorgen297 said:

Just get a micro SD card, which apple doesn't allow lol, but androids allow. 

I don't want to go off topic, but just know that Micro SD cards are crap and Google hates them too(Nexus/Pixel, removing the ability to install apps to SD for the longest time, and then making SD read only in 4.4 kitkat).

 

 

You should buy products for what they are, not what they will be "some day". If you like the Mac with the 512 SSD then buy it, but if you buy it with the intentions of upgrading or software updates then you are just setting yourself up for failure. Sure, standards are nice, but nobody is forcing companies to conform to them, and companies are definitely not forcing people to buy their products, and planned obsolescence is just a myth(nothing more).

[79wjd]

Just now, Jorgen297 said:

No they do it to make money, your reasoning here may be an added bonus, but money is 100% the driving force behind anything apple does. 

And that's not the driving force behind literally every company in existence (excluding not-for-profit companies of course). 

 

Are you that deluded? 

[RedRound2]

3 minutes ago, Jorgen297 said:

No they do it to make money, your reasoning here may be an added bonus, but money is 100% the driving force behind anything apple does. 

 

 

hmm lol, do you have any proof for it. Sure there's money, but they get alot more from other parts of their business. And FYI, since you seem not to know it, money is what every company is after

Apple devices are generally very reliable and I just basically justified what actually is going on and yet you completely ignore the facts and standard procedure. It's no use talking to people like you

[79wjd]

Just now, Jorgen297 said:

1. This isn't about years, this is about you trying to manipulate me.

2. They do unless you're an apple shill.

3. The replacement batteries for the iPhone shuffle was the price of the shuffle, and back in 2005 they didn't even create a replacement program until they were called out on their planned obsolescence. Also they lobbied against the right to repair bill so you have to buy something new when it breaks. 

4. Eco friendly means changing a resistor rather than changing the entire device lol. 

Please explain to me how Apple is the devil for having used three standards in the past 16 years for their iPod/iPhone line. When each standard improved on the previous one by a significant amount. 

 

That's not what planned obsolescence means.....

 

They don't just throw out the old device. They scrap it reuse the materials when possible. 

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, Jorgen297 said:

Fine whatever, but they should have used micro USB long ago, that's the only sensible way to get standardization. 

 

Apple created shit batteries to force consumers into a 1-2 year buying cycle of devices. The batteries were made to fail, and their policies and pricing towards new batteries was made to make you buy a new device. That's planned obsolecnce imo. 

 

So what lol, it's still massively worse than actually repairing it. 

So after all of that ranting about Apple and they're devilish connector habits spanning multiple posts you just drop it without even attempting to prove yourself right? So you're basically admitting that you didn't even bother to do any research before attacking a company. Biased much? (there's nothing wrong with being wrong, but you shouldn't be making such a bold claim without proof to back it up)

 

No thank you, lightning is superior to micro usb in every way (more durable and reversible) except that micro happens to be in all android/windows phones. But considering the prevalence of iPhones, that's not much of a downside. 

 

That hasn't been my experience of owning both Macs/iPhones and Dells/Android phones over the past eleven years. Apple tends to use excellent batteries. Hell, the battery in my 2013 rMBP is rated for 1000 cycles, I'm now sitting at 1800 cycles and I still get 80% of the rated battery life, and when it was new I got MORE than the rated battery life. 

 

No it's not. They're not throwing components away, they all end up getting reused/used in the refurbished phones (if they work) or recycled (if they're broken).

[79wjd]

10 minutes ago, Jorgen297 said:

Lighting sucks.

 

They did this, not sure what they do now to force obsolescence. Dug this up from the archive from 2005 lol: http://lifehacker.com/034486/what-to-do-when-your-ipod-battery-dies 

 

Are you actually claiming that scrapping a phone isn't worse than changing out a resistor? And do you think every phone even gets scrapped? Come on man, come on, by now you're not even applying bent logic to your apple fanboyism.

How does lightning suck? 

 

Because something that happened eleven years ago represents the market today. And they don't -- not any more than any other company at least (if anything, I'd say Motorola/Samsung/OP/HTC/etc... are worse seeing as you're lucky if you get more than two OS updates).

 

Any functional parts get reused in reurbished/remanufactured devices, any broken parts get scrapped. So, no, there really isn't an environmental issue there. And there are issues with trying to do on-board repairs (causing potential stability issues for users as the issue could easily extend beyond that one resistor, for example).

 

 

I'm done, I'm going to sleep. @RedRound2 have fun.

[RedRound2]

8 minutes ago, Jorgen297 said:

Lighting sucks.

 

They did this, not sure what they do now to force obsolescence. Dug this up from the archive from 2005 lol: http://lifehacker.com/034486/what-to-do-when-your-ipod-battery-dies 

 

Are you actually claiming that scrapping a phone isn't worse than changing out a resistor? And do you think every phone even gets scrapped? Come on man, come on, by now you're not even applying bent logic to your apple fanboyism.

 

 

Lol, do you have any proof of it? Right now you're acting like a typical fanboy denying everything without anything

 

Another thing, there were a lot of third party options then, so I don't see why it was a huge problem in the first place. Right now they announce replacement program for anything faulty the roll out. 

 

What guarantee do you have that it's only a resistor problem? If it is then it's likely that the compnenet it was connected got damaged which usually will be a significantly more expensive. When it comes to electronics one component failure is enough to put the entire circuit in jeopardy and by replacing the entire circuitry Apple is making sure that the same problem wouldn't arise again

 

And yes Apple recycles every device they get including android phones and windows devices. It's a fact and for some reason, you just don't understand it

[RedRound2]

2 minutes ago, Jorgen297 said:

Here's some proof for you, fucking Casey Neistat lol, a Hillary Clinton shill, but apparently not an Apple shill lmao. 

 

Also for some reason you guys don't seem to understand how repairing something is more eco friendly than recycling it, and, AND, getting a new device. 

1

And yet you bring up something from a million years ago. Facepalm

 

How many fucking times do I have to explain the problems associated with repairing? Since they're recycling the eco problem gets eliminated

 

As I said before, there's no use talking to somebody who ignores everything put in front of him.

[RedRound2]

1 minute ago, Jorgen297 said:

AND PRODUCING A NEW DEVICE. And you think recycling is 100% efficient? Please. You're as ignoring as your depiction of me. 

 

Like replacements happen so often that it contributes to a significant amount of pollution. That point directly ties in with how Apple products multiple times more reliable than the rest. Not to mention their products last at least double to their competition

[DELTAprime]

Seriously Apple, just buy M.2 drives like the rest of the freaking laptop industry instead of using overpriced proprietary BS.

[ThinkWithPortals]

It's Apple, what was everyone expecting? They're a walled garden.

[79wjd]

5 hours ago, DELTAprime said:

Seriously Apple, just buy M.2 drives like the rest of the freaking laptop industry instead of using overpriced proprietary BS.

They're not actually all that overpriced:

512gb - +$200

1tb - +$600

2tb - +$1400

 

Now, let's look at the price of the Samsung 950 Pro (which isn't even as good):

256gb - $200

512gb - $300 

Now, since 512gb is the largest model we have to extrapolate the price for 1tb/2tb (going by the 850 Evo/Pro, it scales fairly linearly):

1tb - $600

2tb - $1200 

 

And if we look at Dell's XPS 15, who's SSD isn't as good:

512gb - +$150

1tb - +$500

 

Now the Surface Book, who's SSD is also not as good: 

256gb - +$200

512gb - +$500

From 512gb/16gb/i7 -> 1tb/16gb/i7 - +$500

 

So no, Apple's SSD pricing isn't actually all that overpriced. 

[79wjd]

7 hours ago, Jorgen297 said:

https://therestartproject.org/consumption/the-footprint-of-those-iphones/

And? Without some other point of reference that data is pretty meaningless. You have no idea how it compares to other manufacturers and you have no idea how much of that comes from recycling phones vs. how much would have been saved by doing board-repairs.

 

Also, CO2 emissions aren't the only (or even biggest) issue when it comes to electronics. Electronic-waste/hazardous materials are also of the utmost importance. 

http://www.sustainablebrands.com/news_and_views/cleantech/hannah_ritchie/apple_voted_greenest_gadget_company_new_greenpeace_report

 

Oh, and just to add to your source, the iPhone 6s produces 54kg CO2 and the iPhone 7 produces 56kg (down from 95 of the iPhone 6). 

[iamdarkyoshi]

I think apple has gone with removable storage media this whole time because repairing a user's water damaged macbook and keeping the data would be an absolute pain if the storage wasn't removable.