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2016 USA Presidential poll for LTTforums

Weak1ings
By Weak1ings
in Off Topic
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Who should be President of the USA?  

144 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Candidate?

    • Donald Trump
      67
    • Hillary Clinton
      51
    • Gary Johnson
      17
    • Jill Stein
      7
    • Chris Keniston
      2

Posted

I didn't know this until someone on a Podcast I listen to mentioned it. But the year the president is elected so are 3 other members on the supreme court, or house of representatives. I can't remember which one but they have been sitting there to time it just right. I would not doubt it for a second if Hillary knew this so she could get her cronies to power and have majority rule on everything. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted

Well, to put an Australian perspective on this. Officially our two major parties are equivalent to those in the US, in reality they aren't. Especially with Trump running. American politics is also a bit more conservative. So with that in mind here are the results of the last Australian election but swapping candidate names with ones that would align with politicians Americans would know.

 

Australian Donald Trump: ~5%

Australian Hillary Clinton: ~41%

Australian Justin Trudeau: ~35%

Australian Jill Stein: ~10%

Australian Gary Johnson: ~3%

 

When I voted in our election? I was hoping that Australian Justin Trudeau would win. Although I voted for Australian Jill Stein in the Senate because I don't like either major party having control of both houses. So if I was voting in the US election? I'd back Clinton, 100%. I'd be annoyed that there wasn't a preferential voting system. I'd be annoyed that there wasn't a more socially progressive candidate that could win. But really, anything to stop the American equivalent of Pauline Hanson winning.

Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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I'm throwing my vote away third party since I'm in a solid red state anyway. Close to 50% of my age group is expected to do so, I want to send a message that the 2 parties need to change their platforms. 

muh specs 

Gaming and HTPC (reparations)- ASUS 1080, MSI X99A SLI Plus, 5820k- 4.5GHz @ 1.25v, asetek based 360mm AIO, RM 1000x, 16GB memory, 750D with front USB 2.0 replaced with 3.0  ports, 2 250GB 850 EVOs in Raid 0 (why not, only has games on it), some hard drives

Screens- Acer preditor XB241H (1080p, 144Hz Gsync), LG 1080p ultrawide, (all mounted) directly wired to TV in other room

Stuff- k70 with reds, steel series rival, g13, full desk covering mouse mat

All parts black

Workstation(desk)- 3770k, 970 reference, 16GB of some crucial memory, a motherboard of some kind I don't remember, Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI, CM Storm Trooper (It's got a handle, can you handle that?), 240mm Asetek based AIO, Crucial M550 256GB (upgrade soon), some hard drives, disc drives, and hot swap bays

Screens- 3  ASUS VN248H-P IPS 1080p screens mounted on a stand, some old tv on the wall above it. 

Stuff- Epicgear defiant (solderless swappable switches), g600, moutned mic and other stuff. 

Laptop docking area- 2 1440p korean monitors mounted, one AHVA matte, one samsung PLS gloss (very annoying, yes). Trashy Razer blackwidow chroma...I mean like the J key doesn't click anymore. I got a model M i use on it to, but its time for a new keyboard. Some edgy Utechsmart mouse similar to g600. Hooked to laptop dock for both of my dell precision laptops. (not only docking area)

Shelf- i7-2600 non-k (has vt-d), 380t, some ASUS sandy itx board, intel quad nic. Currently hosts shared files, setting up as pfsense box in VM. Also acts as spare gaming PC with a 580 or whatever someone brings. Hooked into laptop dock area via usb switch

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23 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

That might matter to some Americans. But to start with, many Americans are actually fucking sick and tired of the PC crowd and are voting Trump just to punish the regressive left. So being a disrespectful leader is actually a desirable quality for many that wish that somebody would grab the whiny fucking leftists by their pussies collectively.

 

But for us outsiders....and you might be surprised given how I'm Mexican but Trump being Nationalistic it's a better choice than Hillary warmongering all over the world. Despite her claims she is the more likely to start military interventions and operations abroad.

 

The assumption that Trump is more or less of a warmonger is actually just that; an assumption. Given that he has literally no experience of being in office, then all we can go on is his chosen line of rhetoric at a given moment, which tends to be somewhat inconsistent. He appears to be against war, apart from when he's totally for it.

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-trump-iranian-soldiers-who-harass-u-s-1473472852-htmlstory.html  

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Perspective.....

us2016.pngaus2016.png

canada2015.pnguk2015.png

 

Now to the American's reading this. How pissed off are you that you have a two party system with the two options you have?

Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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Cute graph. How about telling us where we can find the source for it? You know, source data, who compiled it, what methodology/definition for determining what is authoritarian, libertarian, etc. was used.

 

Cause Trump being further towards authoritarianism than Hillary? Sorry, but I ain't buying it without you telling me how you got there.

 

All that it is a pretty graph. For all we know, it was determined by throwing darts.

 

What I mean to say is: [citation needed]

I deal in shitposts and shitpost accessories.

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2 hours ago, Praesi said:

Oh no!!! People have different  Opinions! ! ?

This one sounds more logical than the ones I seen in this thread, nothing wrong with those other opinions but this one is just more logical 

Don't call me a nerd, it makes me look slightly smarter than you

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11 minutes ago, Urishima said:

Cute graph. How about telling us where we can find the source for it? You know, source data, who compiled it, what methodology/definition for determining what is authoritarian, libertarian, etc. was used.

 

Cause Trump being further towards authoritarianism than Hillary? Sorry, but I ain't buying it without you telling me how you got there.

 

All that it is a pretty graph. For all we know, it was determined by throwing darts.

 

What I mean to say is: [citation needed]

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

 

Also, Trump less Authoritarian than Hillary? What planet are you from? He literally said he wanted a complete shutdown of Muslim immigration. 

Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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2 minutes ago, skywake said:

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

 

Also, Trump less Authoritarian than Hillary? What planet are you from? He literally said he wanted a complete shutdown of Muslim immigration. 

Autoritarism is not the same as being anti-immigration. That has more to do with being Nationalistic more than anything since you can excert strict immigration laws (up to an includying complete or partial bans) while being more lenient with your own citizens.

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33 minutes ago, Quinnbeast said:

 

The assumption that Trump is more or less of a warmonger is actually just that; an assumption. Given that he has literally no experience of being in office, then all we can go on is his chosen line of rhetoric at a given moment, which tends to be somewhat inconsistent. He appears to be against war, apart from when he's totally for it.

 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-trump-iranian-soldiers-who-harass-u-s-1473472852-htmlstory.html  

I don't disagree. The only thing is that I've seen a little more substance when it comes to Hillary being more dangerous for potential military interventions and such since there are emails of her selling weapons, toying with many different foreign interests up to and includying taking money from Saudi Arabia and Quatar, etc.

 

I am not saying that's concrete evidence (it seems to be circumstancial and speculative at best) but at the same time for as little water as the acussations hold, it's more than the accusations against Trump just being a "warmonger" cause he's "crazy"

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5 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Autoritarism is not the same as being anti-immigration. That has more to do with being Nationalistic more than anything since you can excert strict immigration laws (up to an includying complete or partial bans) while being more lenient with your own citizens.

It's a graph showing the four extremes. Left and right are economics, libertarian and authoritarian are social. If you're calling for a complete ban of movement for people of a particular religious group? When I say that's more Authoritarian? I'm also saying it's less libertarian. Because an extreme social Libertarian would give everyone all of the freedoms.

Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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2 minutes ago, skywake said:

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

No source on the site itself.

 

> Please note that the positions on the chart are based on speeches, manifestos and, where applicable, voting records

 

So where can I read up on the actual data that they used? Someone must have taken these data points and decided to pin each of them on the political compass. I want to see that data. I want to see the explanation for their choices.

 

Again, and this time directed to politicalcompass.org: Citation needed.

I deal in shitposts and shitpost accessories.

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2 minutes ago, skywake said:

It's a graph showing the four extremes.

The graphs are not based just on your stance on immigration. For example Cuba is considered (or was considered depending on who you ask, Raul Castro and Alarcón seem to have a very different direction from Fidel's) way more autoritarian but because it greatly restricted travel for their own citizens.

 

Immigrants with an illegal status are just not your citizens, you can't say you're authoritarian even if you offer them no amnesty and deport them all as a State you still have no obligations to non-citizens.

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136832_0.jpg

 

Screw you guys, I'm going with the best option of them all :)

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9 minutes ago, Lurick said:

136832_0.jpg

 

Screw you guys, I'm going with the best option of them all :)

Yeah, fuck it!

I deal in shitposts and shitpost accessories.

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38 minutes ago, Urishima said:

Cute graph. How about telling us where we can find the source for it? You know, source data, who compiled it, what methodology/definition for determining what is authoritarian, libertarian, etc. was used.

 

Cause Trump being further towards authoritarianism than Hillary? Sorry, but I ain't buying it without you telling me how you got there.

 

All that it is a pretty graph. For all we know, it was determined by throwing darts.

 

What I mean to say is: [citation needed]

Graph aside, maybe you have not been paying attention or know the indicators for authoritarian rule:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_leadership_style

 

Communication Patterns of Authoritarian Leadership:[3]

  • Downward, one-way communication (i.e. leaders to followers, or supervisors to subordinates)
  • Controls discussion with followers
  • Dominates interaction
  • Independently/unilaterally sets policy and procedures
  • Individually directs the completion of tasks
  • Does not offer constant feedback
  • Rewards acquiescent obedient behavior and punishes erroneous actions
  • Poor listener
  • Uses conflict for individual gain

Just one example:

 

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3 hours ago, Praesi said:

Oh no!!! People have different  Opinions! ! ?

You didn't actually read the post did you?

 

I encouraged people to have their own opinions, I also encouraged people to look past their favorite news site to find the facts they base their support or disapproval of candidates on. 

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30 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I don't disagree. The only thing is that I've seen a little more substance when it comes to Hillary being more dangerous for potential military interventions and such since there are emails of her selling weapons, toying with many different foreign interests up to and includying taking money from Saudi Arabia and Quatar, etc.

 

I am not saying that's concrete evidence (it seems to be circumstancial and speculative at best) but at the same time for as little water as the acussations hold, it's more than the accusations against Trump just being a "warmonger" cause he's "crazy"

WHAT!?! Source that's not a conservative news site? I would be extremely interested in seeing that.

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@Urishima

Frankly I don't know what your objection here is. I was posting them purely for comparison. I don't think it matters where on the scale they sit what matters is where they sit alongside each other. As long as the site uses a similar methodology across the candidates? They'll get in the right ballpark. Which is good enough for a forum discussion.

 

Anyways, I wasn't making a comment on Trump really. I wasn't saying he was going to start an Authoritarian regime. I just pointed to a graph that showed him as being more socially conservative than Clinton is. And on that same graph I made the point that Clinton would fit more in Australia's conservative party (who for some reason we call the Liberals). And that if I was voting in the US election? I'd be wanting to move to Canada so I could vote for Justin Trudeau..... because he's closer than either of them to the party I wanted to win in Australia. A party that is currently calling for a royal commission into the banks.

Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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1 minute ago, corrado33 said:

WHAT!?! Source that's not a conservative news site? I would be extremely interested in seeing that.

Check the latest wiki leaks though you might not find em on "non-conservative" sites I think their credibility is reasonable enough.

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9 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Check the latest wiki leaks though you might not find em on "non-conservative" sites I think their credibility is reasonable enough.

Please, give me specific details, not conservative news sites CLAIMING that the e-mails say she sold weapons. Find me a single e-mail saying that she admitted to "selling" weapons. All I can find is conservative news sites making up stories and siting each other, which is pretty funny if you ask me. 

 

What I've heard so far: 

 

She sold weapons to ISIS.

She made over $100,000 selling weapons to ISIS. 

 

I want actual proof of that not a "go find it yourself, here are all of the 30,000 e-mails." Burden of proof is upon you. Seems to me that just because the e-mail contains the words Syria or Libya people think that she was involved in things in those countries, yet when I search for "weapon" on wikileaks, all I see are articles emailed TO Clinton from other people. (Literally news articles...)

 

From what I understand, people are too lazy to do the actual research and parse the tons of e-mails, so they make up fantastical stories to what they THINK is probably in them. Please, prove me wrong! I'm not saying that there isn't anything in those e-mails, what I AM saying is that I haven't found any site that's found anything incriminating in there. 

 

The bulk of the sites talking about Hillary's e-mails follow the following structure.

 

"Fantastical claim containing words "Hillary" and "e-mail" or "Benghazi""

 

Repeat of fantastical claim.

Story made up saying how bad Hillary is compared to Trump because of said fantastical claim.

Repeat of claim.

Saying how you should vote for Trump instead of Hillary.

"Sources" citing other news articles following the same structure. 

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1 minute ago, corrado33 said:

Please, give me specific details, not conservative news sites CLAIMING that the e-mails say she sold weapons. Find me a single e-mail saying that she admitted to "selling" weapons. All I can find is conservative news sites making up stories and siting each other, which is pretty funny if you ask me. 

 

What I've heard so far: 

 

She sold weapons to ISIS.

She made over $100,000 selling weapons to ISIS. 

 

I want actual proof of that not a "go find it yourself, here are all of the 30,000 e-mails." Burden of proof is upon you. Seems to me that just because the e-mail contains the words Syria or Libya people think that she was involved in things in those countries, yet when I search for "weapon" on wikileaks, all I see are articles emailed TO Clinton from other people. (Literally news articles...)

 

From what I understand, people are too lazy to do the actual research and parse the tons of e-mails, so they make up fantastical stories to what they THINK is probably in them. 

I didn't suggested to search for them because of a burden of proof issue, but because a burden of my-office-firewall-right-now issue on my part, I'll look later in the evening once I get unlimited access at home and such.

 

But yeah I wasn't suggesting it's on you to look I know I made the assertion here, chill.

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They're both conservatives. Clinton is more economically conservative, Trump is more socially conservative. And I'm not citing the political compass site to say that. Trump wants to shut down the TPP and while Clinton says she's in the same boat? I think we all know that's not true. Clinton has corporate America funding her campaign. She's capitalist as all hell. There are other examples of this but I think you get the idea. Although I expect people to disagree for no reason other than it's politics.

 

On the social scale? Well it's a bit more stark a difference but they're still both fairly conservative. Trump is just a bit more extreme. When he's talked about stuff like Abortion and immigration in particular. And with Pence as a running mate I think it's hard to argue otherwise. Now Clinton is no social progressive, she's more of a moderate. When she talks about social policy it always seems to be about keeping things as they are.

 

Basically, Clinton is Romney with a different coloured ticket. Trump is something else entirely. I don't know enough about US politics to compare him to someone else who has run. All I know is that as an Australian I'd say he's what Clive Palmer would have been if he had more power and Pauline Hanson's policies. And that's a scary proposition

Fools think they know everything, experts know they know nothing

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14 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I didn't suggested to search for them because of a burden of proof issue, but because a burden of my-office-firewall-right-now issue on my part, I'll look later in the evening once I get unlimited access at home and such.

 

But yeah I wasn't suggesting it's on you to look I know I made the assertion here, chill.

Apologies, didn't mean to seem pushy. I was in a hurry doing actual work things and didn't proofread!

 

However, in the last 10 minutes I've tried to find a single site detailing what was in the e-mails. Trying to find a shred of evidence for things that were bad and so far I've found... nothing. Sure, there's the FBI report saying that she may have been compromised (with no evidence to support that she was). Her server was pretty unprotected apparently. Many of the news sites like to turn the FBI report into something it isn't. Yes, there were a few (order of 10s) classified e-mails (and various levels of secret...ness) and many MORE e-mails have been classified AFTER THE EXPOSURE. Not before. Lots of the sites like to say "there's thousands of classified e-mails in there that she KNEW were classified" and that's simply not true.

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4 minutes ago, corrado33 said:

Apologies, didn't mean to seem pushy. I was in a hurry doing actual work things and didn't proofread!

 

However, in the last 10 minutes I've tried to find a single site detailing what was in the e-mails. Trying to find a shred of evidence for things that were bad and so far I've found... nothing. Sure, there's the FBI report saying that she may have been compromised (with no evidence to support that she was). Her server was pretty unprotected apparently. Many of the news sites like to turn the FBI report into something it isn't. Yes, there were a few (order of 10s) classified e-mails (and various levels of secret...ness) and many MORE e-mails have been classified AFTER THE EXPOSURE. Not before. Lots of the sites like to say "there's thousands of classified e-mails in there that she KNEW were classified" and that's simply not true.

Bear in mind that I did say from the get go that these accusations against her are just conjecture too though. My point wasn't that this are well founded, evidence based assertions. My point is that they hold more substance than "Trump is a warmonger!" cause he talked some shit during the campaign about killing the families of terrorists but has basically gone back on that since.

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