DDR3 vs DDR4

[Arcuz]

Hey guys, I was just wondering, what are the main differences between DDR3 and DDR4 ram, and which should I purchase for most bang=buck?

 

Thanks, 

Arcuz

 

Edit: for gaming purposes, not much else.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Arcuz

[DXMember]

lower voltage, higher density

purchase the one that your system supports

[jeonjaeng]

2 minutes ago, DXMember said:

lower voltage, higher density

purchase the one that your system supports

Yup, DDR4 is better off for right now but if your parts cant support it then dont get it

[Arcuz]

2 minutes ago, DXMember said:

lower voltage, higher density

purchase the one that your system supports

Well I'm thinking about building a system for my brother. So it doesn't need to be great. I wanna know what is best bang for buck.

[Nena Trinity]

DDR4 is better at higher MHz but at 2133/2400MHz it is no good due to its terrible CAS Latency or CL!

 

Edit: 2800MHz is the highest you should go because anything over that will give minimal increase...

[DXMember]

Just now, Arcuz said:

Well I'm thinking about building a system for my brother. So it doesn't need to be great. I wanna know what is best bang for buck.

not buying anything is best bang for buck...

 

memory is memory, look at what's cheaper and is compatible, buy it, done

[Arcuz]

Just now, Nena360 said:

DDR4 is better at higher MHz but at 2133/2400MHz it is no good due to its terrible CAS Latency or CL!

So if you were building a low end gaming rig would you get DDR3 or DDR4?

[Dackzy]

dude you have been posting all day with these kind of questions....

[Nena Trinity]

Just now, Arcuz said:

So if you were building a low end gaming rig would you get DDR3 or DDR4?

Keep in mind you need 1.35v DDR3 or DDR3L so depending on the price tough, yet the DDR4 can probably be used in the future!

[DXMember]

1 minute ago, Nena360 said:

DDR4 is better at higher MHz but at 2133/2400MHz it is no good due to its terrible CAS Latency or CL!

 

Edit: 2800MHz is the highest you should go because anything over that will give minimal increase...

doesn't work like that

CL15 @ 1600MHz is not the same as CL15 @ 2133MHz

[Nena Trinity]

Just now, DXMember said:

doesn't work like that

CL15 @ 1600MHz is not the same as CL15 @ 2133MHz

No no no 2133MHz CL9 to 10 is common for DDR3 while DDR4 is from CL14 to 15...

[typographie]

11 minutes ago, Arcuz said:

and which should I purchase for most bang=buck?

You don't really get a choice. If you have an Intel PC that is 5th generation or earlier, or any AMD PC, DDR3 is the only compatible option. If you have an Intel Skylake system the CPU will support both, but you need certain (somewhat uncommon) motherboards for DDR3. Intel X99 systems require DDR4.

 

5 minutes ago, Arcuz said:

Well I'm thinking about building a system for my brother. So it doesn't need to be great. I wanna know what is best bang for buck.

If this is a typical gaming system, I'd recommend a Skylake Core i3/i5/i7 for a variety of reasons. DDR4 support is one of those reasons.

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, Arcuz said:

Hey guys, I was just wondering, what are the main differences between DDR3 and DDR4 ram, and which should I purchase for most bang=buck?

 

Thanks, 

Arcuz

 

Edit: for gaming purposes, not much else.

DDR4 is superior to DDR3 in every regard when it comes to clock speeds, latency, power consumption, etc. For gaming however, not much changes unless you are using an iGPU. Faster memory bandwidth will likely boost framerates if memory bandwidth is the bottleneck. On faster iGPU's, this tends to be the case, up to a certain point (where the bottleneck shift to the lack of raw power on the GPU itself). 

 

Now, faster memory does improve your minimum framerates in situations with high CPU overhead, or situations where the CPU is the bottleneck, but aside from that, it won't matter if you are using DDR3 or DDR4. DDR3's diminishing returns kick in at around 2133mhz, while DDR4 kicks in at around 2800mhz for most system configurations. Why is it that 2133 DDR3 is as effective as 2800 DDR4? Well, they have entirely different timing configurations and the inner latencies of the IMC are completely different. It's not about the raw speed of the ram itself, it's about it being fast enough to alleviate the hiccups of the CPU. Different generation CPU's will likely need different memory speeds to pick up the pace during these bottlenecks.

 

1 minute ago, Nena360 said:

DDR4 is better at higher MHz but at 2133/2400MHz it is no good due to its terrible CAS Latency or CL!

It's not the terrible CAS that makes 2133/2400 DDR4 slow. It's the RTL/IO-L being poorly trained that these speeds due to the very loose tertiary timings. I can make a 2133 DDR4 kit faster than a 2133 DDR3 kit, it just takes time and a ton of manual overclocking to do so. Will it be better? Not really, you would be better off going for a higher speed, because you would achieve better bandwidth and lower latency at higher speeds. Just don't fall for the misinformation that CL is everything, because it's a very small piece of the overall puzzle. 

 

1 minute ago, DXMember said:

doesn't work like that

CL15 @ 1600MHz is not the same as CL15 @ 2133MHz

DDR4 and DDR3 are handled different by their respective IMC's. DDR3 can get away with lower speeds while having lower latency overall at lower speeds. DDR4 requires a much higher clock speed in order to match DDR3's lower internal latency. That's why the ceiling for DDR3 is lower overall compared to what it takes with DDR4 to achieve comparable latencies to help with minimum FPS. 

[Arcuz]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

dude you have been posting all day with these kind of questions....

Yeah, I'm not super tech savvy with this deeper stuff, and I have a bunch of free time right now, so I ask so I can know... Why, is this a bad thing..?

[MageTank]

Just now, Arcuz said:

Yeah, I'm not super tech savvy with this deeper stuff, and I have a bunch of free time right now, so I ask so I can know... Why, is this a bad thing..?

It's not a bad thing. Some people just get frustrated over very little things. That being said, if you ask the same question a hundred times without taking the time to learn it, then I would understand the frustration. 

[Nena Trinity]

Just now, MageTank said:

It's not the terrible CAS that makes 2133/2400 DDR4 slow. It's the RTL/IO-L being poorly trained that these speeds due to the very loose tertiary timings. I can make a 2133 DDR4 kit faster than a 2133 DDR3 kit, it just takes time and a ton of manual overclocking to do so. Will it be better? Not really, you would be better off going for a higher speed, because you would achieve better bandwidth and lower latency at higher speeds. Just don't fall for the misinformation that CL is everything, because it's a very small piece of the overall puzzle.

I agree but at same MHz I most say DDR3 is superior while DDR4 does not seem to gain much CL at higher MHzs!

[Dackzy]

Just now, Arcuz said:

Yeah, I'm not super tech savvy with this deeper stuff, and I have a bunch of free time right now, so I ask so I can know... Why, is this a bad thing..?

not a bad thing, it would maybe just be easier to go on youtube and watch some tech vidoes, ofc there some that are wrong with some things. 6th gen intel is for DDR4, older is DDR3, AMD is only DDR3 right now

[Arcuz]

1 minute ago, Dackzy said:

not a bad thing, it would maybe just be easier to go on youtube and watch some tech vidoes, ofc there some that are wrong with some things. 6th gen intel is for DDR4, older is DDR3, AMD is only DDR3 right now

 

2 minutes ago, MageTank said:

It's not a bad thing. Some people just get frustrated over very little things. That being said, if you ask the same question a hundred times without taking the time to learn it, then I would understand the frustration. 

Alright, thanks guys. Ill go on YouTube then. Sorry for being a bother

[Nena Trinity]

Well if you need it here is a example build with DDR3L:

 

PC Build Guide – Intel i5 ATX: (Less than 900$)

*CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K + Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo

*GPU: Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 8GB (can be replaced by GTX 1060, R9 Fury or GTX 1070)

*Mobo: ASUS Z170-PLUS D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard

*RAM: Hyper X Fury 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3L-1866MHz (most be 1.35v or less)

*PSU: XFX TS 650W Power Supply Unit

*Storage: Seagate 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM SSHD

*http://pcpartpicker.com/list/9zsb8K

[DXMember]

5 minutes ago, Nena360 said:

No no no 2133MHz CL9 to 10 is common for DDR3 while DDR4 is from CL14 to 15...

that's JEDEC spec

you can manually tighten it and there are high performance kits that run CL14 @ something stupid like 3800MHz

[MageTank]

Just now, Nena360 said:

I agree but at same MHz I most say DDR3 is superior while DDR4 does not seem to gain much CL at higher MHzs!

That is illogical. You can lower the timings below C15 on DDR4 if you match the 2133 voltages. In fact, you don't even need to do 1.65 (the voltage most DDR3 kits require to hit 2133). I hit 2133 C11 at 1.35 and still matched their latency and bandwidth. If the bandwidth, latency, and overall RTL/IO-L configuration is the same, then one is not superior to another. 

 

Also, what do you mean by "DDR4 does not seem to gain much CL at higher MHZ's"? Were you not the one that said higher CL was bad? Why would you want to gain it? Either way, it's still wrong. I run 3600 C14-14-14-28-2. Is the CL higher than DDR3? Yes. However, my latency and raw bandwidth is far superior. 

 

 

Just now, Arcuz said:

 

Alright, thanks guys. Ill go on YouTube then. Sorry for being a bother

Nowhere did I say you were being a bother or a burden. I would gladly answer any question you have. Just try not to ask the same exact question multiple times in different threads. If there is something specific that you do not understand, ask. We will gladly help if we can. 

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, Arcuz said:

 

Alright, thanks guys. Ill go on YouTube then. Sorry for being a bother

you are not at all, it might just be a faster way for you  

I am just thinking about your time  

[Nena Trinity]

1 minute ago, DXMember said:

that's JEDEC spec

you can manually tighten it and there are high performance kits that run CL14 @ something stupid like 3800MHz

Nope XMP...

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

That is illogical. You can lower the timings below C15 on DDR4 if you match the 2133 voltages. In fact, you don't even need to do 1.65 (the voltage most DDR3 kits require to hit 2133). I hit 2133 C11 at 1.35 and still matched their latency and bandwidth. If the bandwidth, latency, and overall RTL/IO-L configuration is the same, then one is not superior to another. 

 

Also, what do you mean by "DDR4 does not seem to gain much CL at higher MHZ's"? Were you not the one that said higher CL was bad? Why would you want to gain it? Either way, it's still wrong. I run 3600 C14-14-14-28-2. Is the CL higher than DDR3? Yes. However, my latency and raw bandwidth is far superior. 

 

 

Nowhere did I say you were being a bother or a burden. I would gladly answer any question you have. Just try not to ask the same exact question multiple times in different threads. If there is something specific that you do not understand, ask. We will gladly help if we can. 

Yes more CL is bad, it does not increase at high MHz as much as it does with DDR3 so at high MHz the DDR4 sticks will always win!

[Arcuz]

1 minute ago, Nena360 said:

Well if you need it here is a example build with DDR3L:

 

PC Build Guide – Intel i5 ATX: (Less than 900$)

*CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K + Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo

*GPU: Gigabyte Radeon RX 480 8GB (can be replaced by GTX 1060, R9 Fury or GTX 1070)

*Mobo: ASUS Z170-PLUS D3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard

*RAM: Hyper X Fury 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3L-1866MHz (most be 1.35v or less)

*PSU: XFX TS 650W Power Supply Unit

*Storage: Seagate 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM SSHD

*http://pcpartpicker.com/list/9zsb8K

alright thanks!

(I suppose I could tone it down with like a 960 and an 13? And maybe 8GB of ram? stuff like that. This is just for my brother so he can play with me, because I'm building myself a really nice desktop also.)

[Nena Trinity]

Just now, Arcuz said:

alright thanks!

(I suppose I could tone it down with like a 960 and an 13? And maybe 8GB of ram? stuff like that. This is just for my brother so he can play with me, because I'm building myself a really nice desktop also.)

Yes and if you want to use DDR4 instead just replace the board and RAM!