Does apple really cheat people.

[Anir]

Does Apple really force people to buy their new phones by  making their previous flagships a piece of junk through software updates? I have read about this on many sites. Like those updates are designed to degrade the performance of processors, other hardware aspects like battery life and software aspects like ram management. Apple is so good at software that it can make a dual core rock in multitasking, so its easy for it to make an update to degrade performance. And then they retail new batteries to be replaced at a price close enough to new I phone models that a user feel getting a new model is worth it. Is it true?

 

 

And also recently many I phone 6 were effected by so called touch disease because the 3d touch sensor was not making contact with the circuit. But neither of the later 6s and 6s+ were affected as in that case apple actually made the case a more tight fit so that touch sensor never looses contact at all. And as most  I phone 6 owners are out of their warrantee period, they have to throw some cash again. Its like that apple kinda knew that this is gonna happen with the 6 model and therefore they checked on more quality control while manufacturing 6s and 6s+ models.....

[W-L]

-Moved to General Discussion- 

[MaxBunny]

4 minutes ago, Anir said:

Does apple really cheat people.

Yes. The only reason you buy an Apple product is to be cheated in every aspect. And you deserve it too if you fall for their shenanigans.

[asdf2061]

I don't know about that, but here is something else about Apple ripping people off:

 

http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2015/09/25/iphone-6s-teardown.cnnmoney/

[AresKrieger]

9 minutes ago, Anir said:

 

Does Apple really force people to buy their new phones by  making their previous flagships a piece of junk through software updates?

 

Kinda, we can't say for sure if the performance loss is intentional but we can say they don't care if old hardware slows down.

 

Though the fact you can't change the battery without taking the phone apart out is the easiest way to make the phones inevitably become useless/not worth fixing, so that we can say is to make the phones have a limited shelf life.

[pinksnowmanshandle]

Whilist I prefer Android and currently use a Galaxy S6, I do think Apple does do a decent job at keep phones supported. It is obvious that the older phones do become slow as hell when they reach the EOL stage in terms of software support. iOS 8 ran fairly well for my mom on her 4s, iOS 9 was pretty pokey for her on her old 4s.

[Mira Yurizaki]

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/09/ios-9-on-the-iphone-4s-a-stay-of-execution-nothing-more/

 

In short, iOS 9 on the iPhone 4S slightly impacts loading performance, but benchmark runs show it has a slightly better edge over using iOS 8.

 

But you also have to look at the larger scale. How many features get shoved into each major iOS iteration? What do these features need and demand out of the hardware? Take for example the transition from MS-DOS based Windows to NT based Windows. A PC that ran Windows 98 well may have chugged on Windows XP. Likewise a computer that handled XP well may have chugged on Vista and 7.

 

Oh, and there's a good chance you opened up a hornet's nest.

[SLAYR]

Is this just another Apple bashing thread about some conspiracy that apple is forcing people to upgrade old tech.

2 minutes ago, I_IHaveNoLife_l said:

I don't know about that, but here:

 

http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2015/09/25/iphone-6s-teardown.cnnmoney/

If you know anything about economics the BOM (bill of materials) of a product doesn't account for any research and development, or any other overhead that went into the product like electricity bills and such, and is very misleading to people who don't understand economics because people think that companies are ripping everyone off.

[Shiv78]

Another cheap thing Apple does is have NFC chips in its phones since the iPhone 6 but they are locked to only Apple Pay use, no pairing usage... why?

[SeraphicWings]

4 minutes ago, Shiv78 said:

Another cheap thing Apple does is have NFC chips in its phones since the iPhone 6 but they are locked to only Apple Pay use, no pairing usage... why?

We can't even bluetooth pairing iPhone with other phones 

Apple ffs

[SLAYR]

2 minutes ago, Shiv78 said:

Another cheap thing Apple does is have NFC chips in its phones since the iPhone 6 but they are locked to only Apple Pay use, no pairing usage... why?

To make people use apple pay so that apple makes more money, just like how dell and hp have proprietary fans, and psus in their computers to make people buy their replacements, really any company is going to try to make the consumer have to buy, and use only their products.

[Anir]

7 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/09/ios-9-on-the-iphone-4s-a-stay-of-execution-nothing-more/

 

In short, iOS 9 on the iPhone 4S slightly impacts loading performance, but benchmark runs show it has a slightly better edge over using iOS 8.

 

But you also have to look at the larger scale. How many features get shoved into each major iOS iteration? What do these features need and demand out of the hardware? Take for example the transition from MS-DOS based Windows to NT based Windows. A PC that ran Windows 98 well may have chugged on Windows XP. Likewise a computer that handled XP well may have chugged on Vista and 7.

 

Oh, and there's a good chance you opened up a hornet's nest.

Ya, your point is true fact, but updates are there to improve performance on phones, especially when the company is prompting the user to do so. As in case of windows os there is a mention about minimum specifications, but in case of phones there is not such things, rather the company itself prompts to do so. And as consumers we think updating is good as it will provide may be increment in performance or security, and since the company is saying to do so, we shall. This is the thinking of average consumer, especially if u r a customer of such a tech giant.

 

And yes I do thik I opened a hornet's nest ??

[Mira Yurizaki]

4 minutes ago, Anir said:

Ya, your point is true fact, but updates are there to improve performance on phones, especially when the company is prompting the user to do so. As in case of windows os there is a mention about minimum specifications, but in case of phones there is not such things, rather the company itself prompts to do so. And as consumers we think updating is good as it will provide may be increment in performance or security, and since the company is saying to do so, we shall. This is the thinking of average consumer, especially if u r a customer of such a tech giant.

 

And yes I do thik I opened a hornet's nest ??

Well even Microsoft's requirement are vague. Since 7 it's been a 1GHz x86 processor and 1GB of RAM. So that totally means I can run it on my Athlon 1000 right? Or my Pentium 4?

[Anir]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Well even Microsoft's requirement are vague. Since 7 it's been a 1GHz x86 processor and 1GB of RAM. So that totally means I can run it on my Athlon 1000 right? Or my Pentium 4?

But does it prompts to upgrade. Surely it advertise. And it also mention what minimum specification to use along with baseline model. U can't compare processor ability just based on GHz.

[kirashi]

45 minutes ago, Anir said:

Does Apple really force people to buy their new phones...

 

Like those updates are designed to degrade the performance of ... ram management.

 

And then they retail new batteries to be replaced at a price close enough to new iPhone models...

 

 

1) No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone any more than one would force you to buy a Note 7 or HTC 10 or Nexus device. It's entirely up to the consumer to research products before purchasing and pick the platform that's best for them. You can choose a device with a completely closed system like the iPhone, or you can choose an Android device with an unlockable bootloader. One will receive software updates for 2-4 years and then you throw it away, while the other might receive a single update in 6 months, after which you can unlock its' bootloader and repurpose it until its' hardware physically dies. Just depends on what kind of user you are.

 

2) It's not so much that the updates are designed  to reduce performance because of bad RAM management as much as Apple simply designed their iDevices without enough RAM in the first place. Hear me out though - back when mobile OS's were lighter on code and less functionally integrated into the cloud, they didn't need all this RAM to run tons of services at once, so Apple was actually being smart in achieving similar performance to Android while using less memory to do it. Now that everything is so tied into cloud and synchronisation, it's not uncommon that devices like the iPhone 4s and iPad 4 are becoming sluggish with all the software updates. 

 

3) The batteries cost so much because of the Quality Control that goes into them compared to the cheap knockoffs from Amazon and eBay that may or may not explode on you and because of the way phones are literally glued together these days, making disassembly costs astronomical compared to phones of the past. Oh, and companies like Apple and Samsung have to make a profit on these batteries too.

 

36 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Whilist I prefer Android and currently use a Galaxy S6, I do think Apple does do a decent job at keep phones supported. It is obvious that the older phones do become slow as hell when they reach the EOL stage in terms of software support. iOS 8 ran fairly well for my mom on her 4s, iOS 9 was pretty pokey for her on her old 4s.

 

 

@wcreek has a point here in that Apple actually supports their devices longer than most manufacturers, but I don't think they go out of their way to do it. See, because Apple handpicks all the hardware that goes into their devices, they have less hardware chipset drivers to worry about writing code for. Thus, they can continue to develop features for their newer hardware while maintaining more updates for their older devices simply because they don't have as much conflicting code to deal with.

 

*Full disclosure: I am actually an Android guy, but do indeed own and love my iPad 4 for a few iOS apps that do not have any equivalent on Android.

[SLAYR]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Well even Microsoft's requirement are vague. Since 7 it's been a 1GHz x86 processor and 1GB of RAM. So that totally means I can run it on my Athlon 1000 right? Or my Pentium 4?

People have gotten windows 7 to run on a pentium 3. So technically they aren't wrong, it is just an miserable experience.

 

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

8 minutes ago, Anir said:

But does it prompts to upgrade. Surely it advertise. And it also mention what minimum specification to use along with baseline model. U can't compare processor ability just based on GHz.

It probably would've helped if I added an </s> tag.

 

4 minutes ago, SLAYR said:

People have gotten windows 7 to run on a pentium 3. So technically they aren't wrong, it is just an miserable experience.

 

 

 

There's the guy who booted Linux on an AVR 8-bit micro. So there's the minimum requirement for that

[kirashi]

13 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Well even Microsoft's requirement are vague. Since 7 it's been a 1GHz x86 processor and 1GB of RAM. So that totally means I can run it on my Athlon 1000 right? Or my Pentium 4?

 

 

3 minutes ago, SLAYR said:

People have gotten windows 7 to run on a pentium 3. So technically they aren't wrong, it is just an miserable experience.

 

I was just going to say this... people have gotten Windows 10 to run on old PIII's before.

Sure, it runs slow and isn't ideal, but technically it works.

I don't disagree though that Software Companies should always list the minimum and recommended specs to run their software.

[pinksnowmanshandle]

7 minutes ago, kirashi said:

*Full disclosure: I am actually an Android guy, but do indeed own and love my iPad 4 for a few iOS apps that do not have any equivalent on Android.

 

@wcreek

I think if I had the money for it, I'd get an iPad because Android tablets are in a sad shape.

[Anir]

9 minutes ago, kirashi said:

1) No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone any more than one would force you to buy a Note 7 or HTC 10 or Nexus device. It's entirely up to the consumer to research products before purchasing and pick the platform that's best for them. You can choose a device with a completely closed system like the iPhone, or you can choose an Android device with an unlockable bootloader. One will receive software updates for 2-4 years and then you throw it away, while the other might receive a single update in 6 months, after which you can unlock its' bootloader and repurpose it until its' hardware physically dies. Just depends on what kind of user you are.

 

2) It's not so much that the updates are designed  to reduce performance because of bad RAM management as much as Apple simply designed their iDevices without enough RAM in the first place. Hear me out though - back when mobile OS's were lighter on code and less functionally integrated into the cloud, they didn't need all this RAM to run tons of services at once, so Apple was actually being smart in achieving similar performance to Android while using less memory to do it. Now that everything is so tied into cloud and synchronisation, it's not uncommon that devices like the iPhone 4s and iPad 4 are becoming sluggish with all the software updates. 

 

3) The batteries cost so much because of the Quality Control that goes into them compared to the cheap knockoffs from Amazon and eBay that may or may not explode on you and because of the way phones are literally glued together these days, making disassembly costs astronomical compared to phones of the past. Oh, and companies like Apple and Samsung have to make a profit on these batteries too.

 

@wcreek

 

 

I m here talking about I phone die hard fans who doesn't care about anything but apple.

 

And sure, apple doesn't put enough ram in their system. I mean the I phone 6s and 6s+ have 2 gb while android have reached 4 GB or even 6gb ram. But their software optimization is so good that their phones are able to keep up with android flagships. And ram management plays a big role here.

 

And for batteries, surely the need quality control but is it justified that they cost close to new models ?

[KaareKanin]

Yes and no, would be my guess. Not because they really want to cheat people, but because newer, faster phones makes older, slower phones even slower. Give a dev more power to play with, and he/she will use more power, and applications gets heavier. They might achieve more, they might just optimise worse, who can tell? But compare the feature set of iOS 4 and iOS 9, which is the range that the iPad 2 has lived through and try to make the argument that the iPad 2 should be just as snappy today as it was at launch. Not a chance. Now, should apple have pushed the latest updates (iOS 7 and onwards) to the iPad 2, considering how slow it gets? Some would argue that the software support is a great service. At the moment, I'm rocking a One M8, which has had an OK track record with updates. That phone went down the drain on performance way faster than any iOS device I've ever used...

 

4 hours ago, I_IHaveNoLife_l said:

I don't know about that, but here is something else about Apple ripping people off:

 

http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2015/09/25/iphone-6s-teardown.cnnmoney/

 

The notion that high margins over BOM cost equals a ripp off is ignorant at best. It would have been a ripp off if Apple had sold all the components loose for the same price, without any integration, design, software or any other value add, but as it stands, Apple makes products in a highly competitive market place and the price reflects the value their customers finds in their products.

 

The only way to use the BOM cost as an indication of whether a price is a ripp off or not is if you could go out, buy the same components yourself, figure out how to assemble them and end up with the same product.

 

3 hours ago, Anir said:

I m here talking about I phone die hard fans who doesn't care about anything but apple.

 

And sure, apple doesn't put enough ram in their system. I mean the I phone 6s and 6s+ have 2 gb while android have reached 4 GB or even 6gb ram. But their software optimization is so good that their phones are able to keep up with android flagships. And ram management plays a big role here.

 

And for batteries, surely the need quality control but is it justified that they cost close to new models ?

 

Isn't it weird that a phone is closing in on the same amount of RAM as a perfectly good PC? I mean, my main/gaming rig only has 8 GB of RAM (don't worry, my productivity rig has more), and in day to day use I never experience any slowdowns that I would attribute to a lack of RAM. Since when does a handheld device need anywhere near the same amounts of RAM as a fully fledged PC?

[TheBestUserName]

13 hours ago, Anir said:

I m here talking about I phone die hard fans who doesn't care about anything but apple.

 

And sure, apple doesn't put enough ram in their system. I mean the I phone 6s and 6s+ have 2 gb while android have reached 4 GB or even 6gb ram. But their software optimization is so good that their phones are able to keep up with android flagships. And ram management plays a big role here.

 

And for batteries, surely the need quality control but is it justified that they cost close to new models ?

<bold quote>   It looks to me that you don't really have an issue with Apple products or the Apple ecosystem, but instead you have an admitted issue with their customers.  The rest of your gripes looks like smoke and mirrors and excuses that you feel are enabling you to have a bad attitude about something that doesn't even matter.   

[DutchTexan]

14 hours ago, I_IHaveNoLife_l said:

I don't know about that, but here is something else about Apple ripping people off:

 

http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2015/09/25/iphone-6s-teardown.cnnmoney/

That’s complete bullshit 

[PlayStation 2]

Operating systems get more taxing when they get updated. The fact you have something like the iPhone 4s running iOS 9 relatively comfortably is a fucking accomplishment if you ask me as most Android phones have a shelf life of two to three years before you can't update them anymore.

[manikyath]

15 hours ago, I_IHaveNoLife_l said:

I don't know about that, but here is something else about Apple ripping people off:

 

http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2015/09/25/iphone-6s-teardown.cnnmoney/

bill of materials is a very, very wrong way to look at device cost.

 

if BoM was anywhere near reality a bread would cost closer to 10 cents than to the €2 i pay at my local bakery

 

on topic: i wouldnt say a definite yes, but i'd dare to say apple has defenately nailed the concept of "planned obsolesence", as well as seeing weird quirks... my ye olde ipod touch 4 got battery issues quite literally the week before the launch of the new gen, and i was seemingly not alone in this matter...