Will Windows 7 be the new Windows XP?

[FPS-Russia]

 

The majority of Win 7 users never upgraded to 10, though 10 is no Vista, Vista was not great on first inception to the market, buggy, did not like XP hardware etc etc.

This might cause M$ to incorporate DX12? make sure 7 get's updates? seeing as Windows 7 is a dominating OS vs 10?

[SpaceGhostC2C]

I was hoping 8 to be Vista, then 10 to be the new 7. Didn't happen 

[AresKrieger]

Pretty much, also windows 10 is buggy and was even buggier at launch additionally vista had it's own dx exclusive directx 10

 

So yeah, it's even more similar a situation than you think

[ARikozuM]

Vista was very good to me whereas Win 7 flat out sucked on most 95/98 games. I doubt they will do that since the kernels will have to be unified making Win 7 into Win 10.

[vanished]

Yeah I think so.  Microsoft didn't want that to happen, and they took certain measures to avoid it, but ultimately through a combination of other actions they took and the ever-present "this is perfect I'm not changing" attitude of most people, it has been doomed to the same fate of XP - a life longer than any OS deserves that only serves to fragment the market.

[Canada EH]

I am loving my W7 Pro 64bit, I was using my Vista 64bit up until a week ago. I will not upgrade, not even to Windows 8, there is still a Windows 8 on the case, and somewhere I saw an Update O/S button somewhere in Start menu.

 

Dont people develop stuff for W7 today?

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah I think so.  Microsoft didn't want that to happen, and they took certain measures to avoid it, but ultimately through a combination of other actions they took and the ever-present "this is perfect I'm not changing" attitude of most people, it has been doomed to the same fate of XP - a life longer than any OS deserves that only serves to fragment the market.

And probably that is why we have forced update. Microsoft was sick and tired or people not upgrading to Windows until they buy a new computer, and now, these days, computers last a crap tone long.

 

[AresKrieger]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah I think so.  Microsoft didn't want that to happen, and they took certain measures to avoid it, but ultimately through a combination of other actions they took and the ever-present "this is perfect I'm not changing" attitude of most people, it has been doomed to the same fate of XP - a life longer than any OS deserves that only serves to fragment the market.

They brought it on themselves, people want their stuff to work, cool features are meaningless when my GPU won't work, or memory leaks constantly occur. They should have focused on the backbone more than things like cortana, I would have switched if the damn thing was more stable for me (though I'd have modded the OS some)

 

Also businesses not switching to 10 is what really drives home the similarities to the xp/vista comparison

[FPS-Russia]

Just now, AresKrieger said:

They brought it on themselves, people want their stuff to work, cool features are meaningless when my GPU won't work, or memory leaks constantly occur. They should have focused on the backbone more than things like cortana, I would have switched if the damn thing was more stable for me (though I'd have modded the OS some)

 

Also businesses not switching to 10 is what really drives home the similarities to the xp/vista comparison

I have problems with Sony Vegas randomly crashing and Fallout 3 won't work on 10 without hacked D3D9.DLL.

[GoodBytes]

15 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

They brought it on themselves, people want their stuff to work, cool features are meaningless when my GPU won't work, or memory leaks constantly occur. They should have focused on the backbone more than things like cortana, I would have switched if the damn thing was more stable for me (though I'd have modded the OS some)

 

Also businesses not switching to 10 is what really drives home the similarities to the xp/vista comparison

I think the problem is that they got rid of their Software Developer in Test. Yes it slows down the development a lot of Windows, but they could stay behind, and bug fix, and release as updates. Heck, maybe an "Enterprise"-Ring could have been done for even more robust OS build than officially released. Now the software developers needs to get the feedback, try and understand the limited description and information, and figure out the bug, and attempt to fix it, at the same time... work on new stuff. In result, it will eventually be good and solid like Windows 7, I mean we saw a big progress forward with the Anniversary Update. But it takes longer, and I think people with specific setup might encounter problems that will never be fixed as they are so few, and will never reach the voted amount to be higher priority to have it fixed, as newer features will introduce newer bugs that will make Insider Fast/Slow Ring report them, and get higher priority.

 

Companies tend to upgrade after the 3rd year of a new version of Windows. So it should increase in 2017.

I think Windows 7 increased a lot, because XP was way to old, and at the time, chicken wire had less security holes than the OS, and Vista was not an option if you didn't have a gaming computer, at the time, to run it nice and smoothly (it did push hardware forward, let alone OEM from selling overpriced crap, which was nice), so people could not hold anymore and switch. Mind you, Microsoft had a pretty strong advertisement at the time.. something that the company can't seem to replicate, or even care.

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, FPS-Russia said:

I have problems with Sony Vegas randomly crashing and Fallout 3 won't work on 10 without hacked D3D9.DLL.

Is that a clean install?

Because sony vegas works perfectly for me, so this isn't a windows 10 problem, it's a personal problem.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

6 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

And probably that is why we have forced update. Microsoft was sick and tired or people not upgrading to Windows until they buy a new computer, and now, these days, computers last a crap tone long.

 

I can imagine McDonald's being sick and tired of people always eating burgers, and introducing a forced-fish policy on Tuesdays. Can't those dumb consumers understand that adding fish to your diet is healthier?

[FPS-Russia]

Just now, Enderman said:

Is that a clean install?

Because sony vegas works perfectly for me, so this isn't a windows 10 problem, it's a personal problem.

Clean install yes, it don't happen all the time it's mostly when i resize my video screen in the time line. The video screen where you see what is going on.

[GoodBytes]

10 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I can imagine McDonald's being sick and tired of people always eating burgers, and introducing a forced-fish policy on Tuesdays. Can't those dumb consumers understand that adding fish to your diet is healthier?

I think Microsoft approach isn't good. The proper way would be to push new features, and advertise Apple style (ie: everywhere ads), and work on their image. But they didn't/don't. Probably that cost money that is why. Mind you, Microsoft marketing team is awful at what they do, beside a few gems here and there. I mean Microsoft has done it with Windows 7. Windows 7, 7 seconds ads where everywhere, and pretty brilliant. I mean it showed new stuff of Windows 7, explained why you should care, and gives you a context for the new feature. Why none of that for Windows 10? I bet if they did, a lot would have upgraded, and no forced update crap, resulting in probably more users than now.

[NavyCuda]

I went back to win7 when my win10 installation died.  I had a number of issues with win10 and the only reason I went to it was for dx12, which only one of my games support.

[Delicieuxz]

There are many things which make Windows 10 more of a Windows Vista than Windows Vista actually was.

 

Two of the biggest issues surrounding Vista at its launch was a lack of 3rd-party driver support, and also high PC system requirements for the environment that it released in - two things that aren't necessarily faults of the OS, but which impacted the public perception of it.

 

I mean, Vista's hardware requirements aren't more than Windows 7's, but the difference is that at the time Vista released, a very big number of people with their XP systems, who had only gotten their first computer during the XP years, weren't down with the idea that a new OS would come out, and it would have higher hardware requirements, forcing them to get better hardware. And so Vista was a learning experience for those people, many of whom simply wanted to stay with XP.

 

In the case of Windows 10, the public doesn't really need to relearn the less of newer technology = higher hardware requirements = might need to upgrade the PC, and the hardware requirement increase from Windows 7 or 8 to 10 is less than it was going from Windows XP to Windows Vista. So, the reasons why people are moving, or not moving to Windows 10 are very different from why they did or didn't move to Windows Vista. Some of the major reasons why people are not moving to Windows 10 include its bugginess, its invasiveness, its ugly UI, its lack of proper control settings for PC owners and admins, its resetting of file associations, and other things that spoil user experience, and make having Windows 10 a liability to a person's PC and data. Windows Vista didn't have any of these problems (well, some people found Vista buggy at its launch, though I personally never encountered a bug in Vista since its launch until I got Windows 7, at its launch).

 

So, Vista wasn't avoided by people for fewer intrinsically OS-related reasons than why people are avoiding Windows 10.

 

And don't forget that Windows 10 was force-installed upon millions of PC systems, and so the image of uptake of Windows 10 that we have is not natural, and does not reflect what people's genuine choice is. I expect that we're going to see many of those people return to Windows 7 or 8, over time.

 

All in all, I think that Windows 10 is much more of a Windows Vista than Windows Vista was.

[NavyCuda]

Windows 10 reminds me of Windows ME.

[GoodBytes]

56 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

In the case of Windows 10, the public doesn't really need to relearn the less of newer technology = higher hardware requirements = might need to upgrade the PC, and the hardware requirement increase from Windows 7 or 8 to 10 is less than it was going from Windows XP to Windows Vista. So, the reasons why people are moving, or not moving to Windows 10 are very different from why they did or didn't move to Windows Vista. Some of the major reasons why people are not moving to Windows 10 include its bugginess, its invasiveness, its ugly UI, its lack of proper control settings for PC owners and admins, its resetting of file associations, and other things that spoil user experience, and make having Windows 10 a liability to a person's PC and data. Windows Vista didn't have any of these problems (well, some people found Vista buggy at its launch, though I personally never encountered a bug in Vista since its launch until I got Windows 7, at its launch)

Agree with what you said, expect this.

Actually, this has NOTHING to do this. People that I provided IT services who didn't want to upgrade to Windows 10 isn't because they heard bad things, or is buggy or something. The problem is a or a combination of (and this fully based on comments I received personally):

• Computer works fine. They don't want anything that might change that, no matter how good Windows 10 is.
• They'll get it with a new computer. (I guess you link it to the above one)
• They don't know anything about Windows 10. What is new? Why should they care? (This is 100% linked to 0 advertisement from Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't get that people don't go to Microsoft.com or Channel9.com, to view BUILD events and Windows events. Only tech people do)
• For those I do present what is new and basically do Microsoft job in advertisement. They don't see enougth to justify the potential amount of problems linked to an upgrade.

I don't want to link correlation to causation, but from what I can see from this forum specifically, (and this is just my personal observation). People with Windows 10 issues are caused because:

1.  Anti-Virus or security software broke something, or had a virus before which screwed up the system, or use system tweak tools that actually modifies system files, or happen to have driver(s) which contains a bug that prevents the upgrade process to happen successfully, ending up with problems (updating the divers before hands solves this). But basically a clean install solves this. These problem are common with every new Windows upgrade or Service Pack release.
    
2. SLI or Crossfire setup. Early Nvidia and AMD drivers, even for a couple of month that followed, bugs in the drivers causes problems.
    
3. I don't know why, by I see a strong correlation (I am not saying: all) between people with memory leaks and issues and AMD graphics card. At least, again, on this forum. Maybe they are a lot of AMD users. I don't know. But usually installing the latest and greatest drivers for all their hardware after upgrading, seems to solve this.

But NOTE: I am not saying that "Windows 10 is perfect", it is indeed more buggy than Windows 7 at release. I have encountered some bugs on the OS myself, although most are fixed since the Anniversary Update.

 

Anyway, the people who did want to upgrade to Windows 10 (which were mostly "It's free? Sure! Why not?". Those didn't face any problems. Mind you, I did the upgrade, so I updated all drivers and BIOS/UEFI, uninstall their security software, upgraded to Windows 10, update all their drivers, and re-installed back their security software. In 1 case, I didn't, as their version was not compatible with Windows 10 (or 8).

 

 

[GoodBytes]

30 minutes ago, NavyCuda said:

Windows 10 reminds me of Windows ME.

Then you never tried Windows Me. I did. You wish it was Vista at release.

 

[NavyCuda]

12 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Then you never tried Windows Me. I did. You wish it was Vista at release.

 

I not only tried ME but managed its roll-out for a business that I was the IT manager for.

 

Next time keep your incorrect assumptions to yourself.

[GoodBytes]

12 minutes ago, NavyCuda said:

I not only tried ME but managed its roll-out for a business that I was the IT manager for.

 

Next time keep your incorrect assumptions to yourself.

Then you should be fired, because Windows Me was designed for Home. Windows 2000 was specifically designed for business, and this isn't some "Windows Home/Pro" edition difference. There is 0 reason why a company would get Windows Me even if it didn't have problems.

 

NT based Windows was designed for enterprise and really any network setup

Win9x is based on home, and had little to no account security (ie: Click on "X" on the login screen, and you have access to the computer)

 

[NavyCuda]

It wasn't my choice, I just did what I was paid to do. You're right about ME not being intended for commercial applications.  There is a reason I didn't work for them very long.

[Delicieuxz]

30 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I don't want to link correlation to causation, but from what I can see from this forum specifically, (and this is just my personal observation). People with Windows 10 issues are caused because:

1.  Anti-Virus or security software broke something, or had a virus before which screwed up the system, or use system tweak tools that actually modifies system files, or happen to have driver(s) which contains a bug that prevents the upgrade process to happen successfully, ending up with problems (updating the divers before hands solves this). But basically a clean install solves this. These problem are common with every new Windows upgrade or Service Pack release.
    
2. SLI or Crossfire setup. Early Nvidia and AMD drivers, even for a couple of month that followed, bugs in the drivers causes problems.
    
3. I don't know why, by I see a strong correlation (I am not saying: all) between people with memory leaks and issues and AMD graphics card. At least, again, on this forum. Maybe they are a lot of AMD users. I don't know. But usually installing the latest and greatest drivers for all their hardware after upgrading, seems to solve this.

I think the problems with Windows 10 are far more than your described personal experience makes you aware of, and my own personal experience, involving many clean re-installs at various stages of Windows 10 releases (including the Anniversary Update) leaves me finding it pretty easy to relate Windows 10 to Windows ME. Windows 10 simply does not work in the way that its interface suggests it should, and in a manner which a person wants it to. For example, file associations reset not just on updates, which is inexcusable enough on its own, but also when certain applications or file-types are accessed. And some file types cannot even be changed to what's wanted, such as offline-document URL reading to Chrome - the only available option is Edge, and there isn't a way supplied to make document URLs be read by any other browser. That's just non-workable.

 

This image is of Windows 10, after performing a clean-installation of the AU ISO, after installing all my applications, after setting up my file-types...  showing Windows 10 arbitrarily resetting many of my file associations out of the blue, after I accessed a certain video file-type:

https://linustechtips.com/main/uploads/monthly_2016_08/57b2ceef87059_ActionCentermessages.jpg.d4f8fb81c40f0baf3c72b2b71c6c7324.jpg

 

http://superuser.com/questions/1022063/windows-10-default-programs-keep-changing

 

The only media programs I installed on Windows 10 are Media Player Classic, Winamp. These "bugs" are more likely Microsoft trying to strong-arm people into using Microsoft apps, and that level of disrespect and broken functionality is simply not tolerable.

 

 

Whether it influences your viewpoint or not, GoodBytes, I think you might find the discussions in this Ars' comments section interesting: Kindle crashes and broken PowerShell: Something isn’t right with Windows 10 testing

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, NavyCuda said:

It wasn't my choice, I just did what I was paid to do. You're right about ME not being intended for commercial applications.  There is a reason I didn't work for them very long.

Ah ok, very good then. My apologies.

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, NavyCuda said:

It wasn't my choice, I just did what I was paid to do. You're right about ME not being intended for commercial applications.  There is a reason I didn't work for them very long.

Ah ok, very good then. My apologies.