Want GPU (upgrade from Intel HD4600), Get EVGA 1060 SC, or other? (Or wait & get 1070?) Have 24" 1080p 60Hz display. (Want 32+" 4K in ~1-3 years)

[PianoPlayer88Key]

Hi all...

 

TL;DR pretty much in title.

 

 

I'm looking at getting a GPU for my desktop.  Budget is anywhere from ~$250 to ~$380 or so, depending on how soon I buy.  Right now the EVGA GTX 1060 (standard & SC) are in stock at Newegg.  Is the SC good for the price, or should I consider another card?

 

I'd consider myself a casual gamer.  I'll link my current steam library, recently played, and my current wishlist.

 

My current display is a Dell U2414H, 1080p IPS, 60 Hz.  I eventually want to get 4K monitor (probably 32" or larger), but I'm waiting for the prices on ones like the BenQ BL3201PH, Acer B6 B326HK YMJDPPHZ, Acer Predator XB321HK, Dell UP3216Q, or Dell P4317Q (unless it has a tilt-only stand) to come down significantly in price.  (I hope I could afford $350-500 or so for a monitor in a year or two, or I might need to consider cutting something else out of the budget.)

 

I currently am using the iGPU in my desktop, and my laptop has a GTX 970M.

 

Also I know about the RX 480.  The performance/watt of the 1060 seems to crush it, though, and that's also important to me (not just performance/$).

 

 

 

 

I'd plan to keep the GPU for a few years or longer, depending on which I get and other factors.  (I'm thinking I'd replace it when a low-end GPU like an x10, or iGPU, is faster.)  As my GPU ages, I'm willing to turn down the settings in games, even possibly as far as getting 15-20fps at 480p, low settings, in games that are <$10 at the time. 

 

If I already had a GPU, I'd still be using a GTX 460+, would be on the fence about upgrading from a GTX 260+, and would likely upgrade from a GeForce 8xxx/9xxx series to the 1060/1070.

 

 

 

 

I'm also wanting to do more video editing, on footage from my Panasonic FZ1000 (which records up to 4K, 30fps, 100mbps).  On both my desktop and laptop in its current state, both editing and playback are quite slow.  Playback, depending on software I use, either stutters badly in AviDemux, or in VLC the sound will play normal speed but the video plays much slower, like about 1/3 to 1/2 speed or so.  For editing, when I tried transcoding H.264 4K 100mbps to H.264 1080p ~20-30mbps or so, it took THREE HOURS to transcode a 15-minute video - on the LAPTOP, with a 970M!  I'm hoping it was the software (AviDemux) not being GPU accelerated, otherwise the 1060 wouldn't be good enough.  (I want real-time or faster transcoding/editing if at all possible due to the possible eventual volume of videos I'd like to edit.)

 

I also need better video editing software - besides its slowness for transcoding, the feature set of AviDemux isn't cutting it anymore for me.  Options I'm looking at are ShotCut, Davinci Resolve 12 (the free version), OpenShot, Lightworks, Blender, at least on Windows.  I might also consider running a few Linux editors in a VM.

 

Or, if I need to actually go out an buy retail software, I'd consider Adobe Premiere Elements or Sony Movie Studio, but I'd be open to others.  It needs to support 2160p, multiple camera angles / split screen (Avidemux doesn't), faster-than-realtime editing/transcoding even on the 970M, and other things (that I don't really want to take the time to list now).  I doubt I'd need some of the more professional stuff in Premiere Pro or Vegas though, and I can't afford it anyway.

 

 

 

 

Note that the budget I mentioned earlier includes the GPU AND (if I buy it) video editing software.  So, I could either get a GTX 1060 and Premiere / Movie Studio, OR, I could just get a 1070, IF I can get it for MSRP.  There is this currently-out-of-stock Gigabyte GTX-1070 for $400 at Newegg - if I went for a 1070 and that came back in stock, would it be worth stretching for it when I can afford it?

 

Also on "depending on how soon I buy" - if I dropped ~$400 on a card, I'd want to wait until around November or December.  However, if I got a $250 card or thereabouts, like the EVGA 1060, I could do that now.

 

 

 

 

As for current system specs, I'll link pcpartpicker: Desktop, & Laptop.

 

Yes the laptop was barebones, with parts added.  The GPU came with it though.  I had the option of getting it separately but it would have been considerably more expensive.  It was required anyway, as that laptop doesn't support using iGPU.

 

 

A paste of the desktop info is below:

 

• PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/YgmwTW
• Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/YgmwTW/by_merchant/
• CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor  (Purchased For $329.99) 
• CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  (Purchased For $34.99) 
• Motherboard: ASRock Z97 EXTREME6 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  (Purchased For $164.99) 
• Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  (Purchased For $99.99) 
• Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  (Purchased For $99.99) 
• Storage: Crucial M550 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  (Purchased For $89.99) 
• Storage: Hitachi Deskstar NAS 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($174.99) 
• Storage: Hitachi Deskstar NAS 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  (Purchased For $174.99) 
• Storage: Hitachi Deskstar NAS 4TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  (Purchased For $174.99) 
• Case: Rosewill THOR V2 ATX Full Tower Case  (Purchased For $129.99) 
• Power Supply: Corsair 760W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $149.99) 
• Optical Drive: Pioneer BDR-209DBK Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer  (Purchased For $63.99) 
• Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 OEM 64-bit  (Purchased For $139.99) 
• Monitor: Dell U2414H 23.8" 60Hz Monitor  (Purchased For $249.99) 
• Keyboard: Logitech MK200 Wired Slim Keyboard w/Optical Mouse  (Purchased For $24.99) 
• Other: Lite-On LH-20A1S (Purchased For $31.99)
• Other: Coboc CY-CAT6-75-BK 75ft 24AWG Cat 6 Black Cable (Purchased For $9.93)
• Other: Promo Code: $-95.56 (Purchased)
• Other: Shipping (Purchased For $14.73)
• Other: Sales Tax (Purchased For $173.00)
• Total: $2333.50 (note: this doesn't reflect the promo code, I don't think.  I can't put negative prices in PCPP.)
• Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
• Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-07-25 18:48 EDT-0400

Also, I'll link a photo album of my setup.  I'll need to move my computer to an actual desk or table before I get a larger monitor though.  Also the last pic with a bunch of hard drives in the case is photoshopped.  I only have the 6 hard drives in the 3.5" bays, plus one in a 5.25-3.5 adapter.  I do have a few other hard drives sitting outside the PC, but not quite that many.   The pic is simulating where I might mount them if I DID have that many drives.

[ARikozuM]

If you can afford a few more dollars, the 980 Ti may be a good choice.

 

But I voted for the EVGA 1060.

[orangecat]

If you wanna go 4K eventually a 1060 isn't gonna even come close. Also I would recommend you go with the 1080 because you will be more 4K ready in the future or at least for current games. 1070 would be fine but 1440p shoudl be your maximum resolution.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

@ARikozuM: I hadn't considered the 980 Ti, mainly due to its higher power consumption.

 

@Kilobytez95: It'll be a little while before I go 4K, and I might not run full screen anyway.  (I like seeing other stuff on screen at the same time.)  And I'd almost rather upgrade later (to like an 1180 or 1280) after I get a 4K monitor.  (Although, if I got a 1070 later this year, I might hang onto it a bit longer than I would a 1060.)

 

Also I forgot to ask everyone's reasons for voting.  I'm particularly interested in the reasons for the "wait then get 1070" votes.  Btw I have only integrated GPU in my desktop right now.

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, PianoPlayer88Key said:

@ARikozuM: I hadn't considered the 980 Ti, mainly due to its higher power consumption.

 

@Kilobytez95: It'll be a little while before I go 4K, and I might not run full screen anyway.  (I like seeing other stuff on screen at the same time.)  And I'd almost rather upgrade later (to like an 1180 or 1280) after I get a 4K monitor.  (Although, if I got a 1070 later this year, I might hang onto it a bit longer than I would a 1060.)

 

Also I forgot to ask everyone's reasons for voting.  I'm particularly interested in the reasons for the "wait" votes.  Btw I have only integrated GPU in my desktop right now.

Your PSU is plenty for the 980 Ti. And don't try to replace your GPU too often since you'll spend more in the long run. I'd spring for the 1060 for your current monitor and upgrade to whatever card plays 4K even better later.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

@ARikozuM: I know my PSU is plenty, it's the electric bill and heat output.  Our electric bill gets pretty high - we're often in the 3rd price tier.  Also my dad has said my PC already (without a discrete GPU) is a significant power hog in the house.  (I thought it was the 2nd highest but there's a few things that are higher.)  Projected annual power usage (without a GPU, after a couple weeks testing) is ~540 kWh, for ~$140/year.  Average rate per my dad's calculations is about 26¢/kWh.

 

Also we don't have A/C at our house east of San Diego, CA. Last Saturday (iirc) it was 86°F/30°C in the house.  I've seen ~90°F/32°C a few times in the last couple years, and one especially hot summer a number of years ago it may have hit 100-104°F/38-40°C in the house!

 

And, spring for 1060 now & upgrade to a newer 4K-capable card later is pretty much what I'm looking at doing.  And I prefer to keep my GPU a while.  As I said earlier, if I had a GTX 460 I'd keep it, a GTX 260 I'd be on the fence, and a GeForce 8800/9800 I'd probably replace.

[1Cup1Tea]

I would wait, GTX 1070 is a lot faster than the 1060.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

1 minute ago, 1Cup1Tea said:

I would wait, GTX 1070 is a lot faster than the 1060.

 

Even though I currently only have iGPU in the desktop?

[1Cup1Tea]

Just now, PianoPlayer88Key said:

 

Even though I currently only have iGPU in the desktop?

It's almost like you are answering this yourself.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

Looks like the EVGA 1060 SC is out of stock now, although the standard one is still available.  Looks like I might wait at least a day or two for restocking, and allow more time for votes/posts in this thread, then make a decision whether to buy now or later hopefully in a couple days.

 

Also when I DO get a GPU, is EVGA a preferred brand, or should I also consider Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, Zotac, PNY, etc?  Also are the prices on the custom 1070s likely to be down below $400 (even for an SC/SSC/FTW or even Classified EVGA) by Black Friday, and readily available (based on past history with previous releases like the 970)?

[Renton577]

Definitely wait and get a 1070 if you are wanting to do 4K gaming at some point, I mean the 1070 I have seen even outperform a 980ti where as the 1060 is about on par with the 980, a pretty substantial boost in FPS for waiting till you can get the 1070.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

Well I was almost ready to pull the trigger on the 1060, but now I'm leaning more toward waiting for the 1070.  Even though, @Renton577, it might be 2-3 years or more before I actually game at 4K. Even if I get a 4K monitor as soon as next year, I'd run at lower resolution so I can see other stuff on the screen at once.  I'm thinking I'd wait to run games at 4K until I can afford a second monitor that's at least 1440p or 4K.  (I guess I could use my 1080p monitor as a 2nd monitor though.)  Getting 4K (instead of 1440p) would be for video editing and for the extra screen real estate under non-gaming workloads.  (Too bad I can't afford 5K, also they only come in 27".)

 

Right now I'm looking through pcpartpicker price trends on the 900 card series.  I'm looking to see if I can find price drop trends in the months after their release, then see about projecting that to the 1000 series.  (Also looking to see if 900s were overpriced above MSRP in the first weeks/months, like the 1000s are.)

[Renton577]

Well I mean for everything now if you will just be doing 1080P the 1060 will do just fine, at that point it just comes down to price and future preparation, The 1060 will run like a 980 and should be able to handle ultra settings on most all games but a couple years down the line it will show its age a little more than the 1070, but the 1060 is priced at about $100 cheaper. (MSRP that is)

 

 

[PianoPlayer88Key]

Yeah, @Renton577  It's a tough decision.  The fact that I have only an integrated GPU makes me want to upgrade now, but the fact that I'd likely keep the GPU a long time (until it gets beat by an iGPU or a low-end (<$30 / single slot fan/heatsinkless low-profile) discrete GPU) makes me want to wait.

 

Also, in my preliminary pcpartpicker price research, the average trend shows, at least on EVGA 970s, that the overall average price was pretty stable from launch to recent, on some cards.  (The FTW does show a decrease over several months from like $400.  Also there are jaggedies in the graph, either sales or brief price hikes, but usually it's only a few days or a week between changes for the most part, it seems.)  Also the 970s were mostly hovering close to MSRP ($330), give or take a small amount like $20-30 or so.  But they weren't jacked way up like the 1070s seem to be.

[Renton577]

I think this weird change in price at the start of the 1000 generation may be due to their pricing they decided to go with on the founders edition, I think Nvidia's talk of MSRP vs founders price has the market all over the place, paired with low stock on the 1000 series.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

Hmm, interesting, @Renton577.  Main thing though is I'm not buying a 1070 until I can get an EVGA dual-fan stock-board/clock version for no more than $379.99, NOT on sale.  Like, if I get one on sale on Black Friday, it needs to be UNDER $379.

 

Also, if I was going to start streaming, like on twitch or youtube, then assuming I haven't yet bought a GPU, which PC would be better to use?  The laptop (i3-6100, GTX 970M, 8GB RAM), or the desktop (i7-4790K, currently iGPU HD4600, 32GB RAM)?  My latest speedtest result (with a couple Twitch streams running in the background) is 26.3 down, 8.7 up.

 

If I use the laptop I'd use the built-in webcam for now, but if I use the desktop I don't have a webcam yet.  I've looked at the Logitech C920, but the quality isn't good enough for me.  I have a Panasonic FZ1000 (4K, 100mbps video, also does 1080p & 720p @ lower rates, 1" 20mp sensor, 25-400mm F/2.8-4.0 equivalent lens) but I'd need a capture card.  The BlackMagic Intensity Pro 4K looks interesting (also I'll want to convert some old VHS, 8mm, film reels, etc. to digital and it looks like it could do some of that), but I'd have to wait to buy it.  Would the laptop be good enough for now though?

[Renton577]

I think the laptop would be okay, the GPU is the worry though, I have a GTX 980M in mine and thats between about a 960 and 970 desktop class card so that leads me to believe the 970M is probably between the 950 and 960, so that may cause some issues if you try to use it for streaming if you're on the go. I think it would be okay though.

[PianoPlayer88Key]

Ahh okay @Renton577.  I was just concerned about the CPU in the laptop though.  It is upgradeable, as it's LGA1151 socket (and I believe Z170 chipset - it's a Clevo P750DM-G laptop), but I'm waiting to upgrade it.  I want to put the last i7-K in that's compatible, but I need to wait until the following generation (that's incompatible) is released so I know what it is.  (I'm really hoping that I could put a Cannonlake in, and I also hope Cannonlake breaks free of the 4-core mainstream limit.)

 

If I used the desktop for streaming (due to its better CPU), would the integrated GPU be good enough for now, if I wait to get a GPU?  In FireStrike, the desktop gets around the mid-upper 700s, whereas the laptop gets around 6000.  In TimeSpy, the desktop refuses to run it, and the laptop gets around 2200 or so.  Both are running Windows 10 Pro, in case I didn't mention it earlier.

 

Basically, for the time being, would it be better to stream with a semi-weak CPU and decent GPU, or with a good CPU and a crappy GPU?  I also think my internet connection would be a bottleneck, at only ~8mbps up, but not much I can do about that.  100+mbps up (or whatever's necessary to stream 4K from my Panasonic camera) with no cap isn't available for <$50/month where I live, that I'm aware of.

[Renton577]

Definitely the better GPU, I've already seen how much of a bottleneck a weak GPU can make and in my opinion its better to have a weaker CPU in this scenario.

[Praesi]

The 1060 is too slow for 4K Gaming.

[balivyta]

i would buy a 1060, you will save some money, and after those 3-4 years, when you get 4k monitor, gpus will be much  better, and then buy 1260 (or whatever will be available)... thats my opinion...

and by the way, you got gaming laptop, so why you need a new gpu for now?

[PianoPlayer88Key]

@Praesi: It'll probably be at least 3-4 years before I do 4K gaming.  Even if I got a 4K monitor in 1-2 years (2017-2018), I'd most likely not run full screen, to have room for other programs visible on screen simultaneously.  I expect I'd start actually gaming at 4K once I get a second 4K (or at least 1440p ultrawide) monitor.  (For now I'm just making do with a 1080p display, but I already am running out of room on the screen.)

 

@balivyta: That's my thinking too, if I go for the 1060.  By the time I'm ready to start gaming at 4K, the GPUs would be a lot better.  I'm hoping the prices would be similar enough to recent 900-series prices (pre-1000-series-launch) that I could afford a 1x70 or even a 1x80 card then.

And, I actually do more of my gaming on the desktop - almost everything is better on the desktop, except that the laptop has the better GPU and has G-Sync. (I do a little gaming on the laptop too, now and then, but I also use it for other things.) The laptop has potential for a better CPU and more RAM though, but I'm not upgrading the CPU until I know what's the last i7-K that's compatible with its LGA1151 socket & Z170 chipset.  Desktop CPU and RAM are already maxed out with the i7-4790K and 32GB, respectively.  (I know of the i7-5775C on LGA1151, but it just gets me a better iGPU, while sacrificing a little CPU performance it seems.)

 

A couple other things I was thinking...

 

I remember like 18 or so years ago, my dad's computer had an ATI All-In-Wonder card in it - a combination GPU, TV tuner & video capture card.  (I think it was one of the first ATI AiW cards produced.)  I remember using it to capture some analog video tapes on a few occasions.

If someone produced a card that combined like an EVGA SSC/FTW/Classified GTX 1070 with like a Black Magic Intensity Pro 4K, for about the price of a Founder's 1080 or a bit less, then once I could afford it, I might want to buy one.

 

If I do go for a 1070, any recommendations on which one I should get?  And what should be the maximum I should pay for the card?

Please base it on the relative price vs. MSRP of similar 1060s (at least ones that don't have jacked prices like the non-blower Asus), and 900-series cards.  For example, a stock board, stock clocked, twin fan card should be at MSRP - $379.

 

The Gigabyte GTX 1070 Windforce is on Newegg for $399.  It's overclocked a little compared to reference (1746 MHz boost in gaming mode, 1771 OC, vs 1683 on the FE) and has a 6+2 phase power design, from what I can see in the info.  Is it worth the $20 premium over MSRP?  Or should I wait for another manufacturer (like EVGA, my preferred choice, or others) to lower their card prices?

 

I feel like I'm pretty close to being able to afford it (above GB 1070 or similar).  If the prices are low enough, then depending on other factors, I may consider bumping up a $380-400 1070 purchase to as soon as next month.  (Or would it still be better to wait for a Black Friday/Monday deal?  I dream of Newegg doing a shell-shocker deal of 2 Titan XPs for the price of a single 1060, valid only 3-4am on a Monday and only announced once you add it to your cart, but I know that'll never happen. )

[PianoPlayer88Key]

So now I'm looking at the 1070, but waiting for the prices to drop to MSRP or close to it.  One that is pretty close is the Gigabyte Windforce OC (GV-N1070WF2OC-8GD), which is $400 on NewEgg.  Would that be good, or should I wait for EVGA or another brand to drop $?

 

I'm maybe working on another topic/poll asking which 1070 and how much max to budget.  (Assume $380 for a stock non-blower card.)  I have a post in test forum, but have trouble editing the poll and idk how to transfer it to another forum when it's done.

 

Video editing/playback is a major use for me.  Both my PCs (desktop & laptop) have trouble with 4K 100mbps playback (essentially 1/2-1/3 speed).  The laptop (970M) took 3 hours to transcode 15 minutes 4K to 1080p 25mbps, although the app may not have been CUDA-capable.

 

I anticipate keeping the GPU at least 5-8 years, or when it no longer reaches 20fps at 480p, low settings, in games that are then < $10, or a new low-end GPU / iGPU/APU kicks its butt.  (Other factors may cause a sooner upgrade, but I don't want card death to be one.)

 

-----------------------------------------

 

I'm also budgeting for some other things, some soon, some later.  Time frame is anywhere from a few days to several years.  (For now I'd only be looking for general advice on the more long-term purchases.)  Some include LG G4 accessories (I have a few specific ones in mind), 4K+ monitor (waiting for 32" G-Sync to drop <$400), AA battery charger, computer chair (I've all but destroyed a couple wooden kitchen chairs in a few months), NAS build, and other things as I think of them.

 

A few brief examples follow.  More details would be in another post.  If I can fit it all in one post, what forum should I post it in?  (If it ends up being longer than some stickied guides, etc, I'll probably split it.)

 

NAS: Been thinking of building LGA1366 platform (sourced from ebay), hopefully under $200-320 (~price of a 5-8TB WD Red) not including storage & peripherals.  Another option is selling my CPU/board/cooler/RAM (4790K, etc) to my dad (replacing his Dell D830, he wants to build a desktop sometime), then getting an LGA2011/2066 platform.  I'd then do the gaming PC + nas thing, using freenas/zfs for the nas part and Windows 10 Pro for the gaming part.

 

More distant purchases would be like a full-system upgrade/replacement for my main PC (if I don't go the LGA2011/66 route for the NAS).  I don't like replacing the mobo/PSU/case on my main PC more than every 6-8 years, and I'd like to keep the same OS setup, apps, settings, etc, as long as the OS is supported.  (Use XP's extended support as a timeframe guide.)  I'm okay with more frequent single-component upgrades (as long as I don't have to remove something else to replace them), within reason.  Like, I wouldn't have upgraded from a 4770K to a 4790K, from a 980 to a 980 Ti, etc, but I would add another hard drive / SSD as I run out of space, or more RAM (maxed out now though) as I frequently run out.  If I can, on performance parts, I like waiting to upgrade until my part gets its butt kicked by a new low-end part.