There's too many hate for Christians around the World

[Nineshadow]

It depends. My country has a deep connection with Orthodoxy and it's not going away any time soon. Sure, younger generations are leaning more toward atheism, but Christianity or the people who follow it aren't mocked or deemed primitive. It's just a religion, a belief, a personal choice. In some other parts of the world, eh...kinda? Some might bring up the Crusades and how bad they were, but, in the end, it was a political move made by a political figure under a religious scope. It's not the religion itself to be blamed here, at least I don't think so, it's the people who abused it to convince the common folk. Anyway, that's for another story now. Religion is a very hot topic for some and I'd rather not go into those kinds of debates. There's also the topic of the recent rise in terrorism but ah, I want to talk about something else.

 

I'm going to focus just on the US from now on, to be noted, and I'm going to go a little bit "of the rails", not focusing strictly on religion.

 

I have to say that the "hate" for religion is part of a wider "family" of trends nowadays. What trends you say? LGBT, Black Lives Matter, to name a few. "Well hang on, what do they have to do with anything? Are you Christian, homophobic and racist?". No I'm not (but I am Orthodox if that matters); and I'm not saying the aforementioned movements are wrong. Just hang on with me for a sec...actually for more than a sec. A few weeks ago I've read a brilliant political article/essay on the New York Magazine about the current state of the US, more specifically about the Trump "movement".

 

Quote

The deeper, long-term reasons for today’s rage are not hard to find. The jobs available to the working class no longer contain the kind of craftsmanship or satisfaction or meaning that can take the sting out of their low and stagnant wages. The once-familiar avenues for socialization — the church, the union hall, the VFW — have become less vibrant and social isolation more common. Global economic forces have pummeled blue-collar workers more relentlessly than almost any other segment of society, forcing them to compete against hundreds of millions of equally skilled workers throughout the planet. No one asked them in the 1990s if this was the future they wanted. And the impact has been more brutal than many economists predicted. No wonder suicide and mortality rates among the white working poor are spiking dramatically.

 

This is an age in which a woman might succeed a black man as president, but also one in which a member of the white working class has declining options to make a decent living. This is a time when gay people can be married in 50 states, even as working-class families are hanging by a thread. It’s a period in which we have become far more aware of the historic injustices that still haunt African-Americans and yet we treat the desperate plight of today’s white working ­class as an afterthought. And so late-stage capitalism is creating a righteous, revolutionary anger that late-stage democracy has precious little ability to moderate or constrain — and has actually helped exacerbate.

 

For the white working class, having had their morals roundly mocked, their religion deemed primitive, and their economic prospects decimated, now find their very gender and race, indeed the very way they talk about reality, described as a kind of problem for the nation to overcome. This is just one aspect of what Trump has masterfully signaled as “political correctness” run amok, or what might be better described as the newly rigid progressive passion for racial and sexual equality of outcome, rather than the liberal aspiration to mere equality of opportunity.

 

Much of the newly energized left has come to see the white working class not as allies but primarily as bigots, misogynists, racists, and homophobes, thereby condemning those often at the near-bottom rung of the economy to the bottom rung of the culture as well. A struggling white man in the heartland is now told to “check his privilege” by students at Ivy League colleges. Even if you agree that the privilege exists, it’s hard not to empathize with the object of this disdain. These working-class communities, already alienated, hear — how can they not? — the glib and easy dismissals of “white straight men” as the ultimate source of all our woes. They smell the condescension and the broad generalizations about them — all of which would be repellent if directed at racial minorities — and see themselves, in Hoffer’s words, “disinherited and injured by an unjust order of things.”

 

And so they wait, and they steam, and they lash out. This was part of the emotional force of the tea party: not just the advancement of racial minorities, gays, and women but the simultaneous demonization of the white working-class world, its culture and way of life. Obama never intended this, but he became a symbol to many of this cultural marginalization. The Black Lives Matter left stoked the fires still further; so did the gay left, for whom the word magnanimity seems unknown, even in the wake of stunning successes. But Trump saw what others didn’t, just as Hoffer noted: “The frustrated individual and the true believer make better prognosticators than those who have reason to want the preservation of the status quo.”

 

TL;DR : The LGBT left, the rich community, The Black Lives Matter movement (under the symbol that was, unintentionally, Obama) and other movements are marginalizing("demonizing") the white working class, their race, their morals, their religion, their economic prospects, their gender. And of course, this only in turn creates more hatred and disdain from them. Trump saw this while others didn't, and that's one of the reasons of why he's become so successful.

[stconquest]

Does OP realize that because of his/her actions in this thread, the hate for christians in the world has gone up a tad? 

[stconquest]

56 minutes ago, Nineshadow said:

It depends. My country has a deep connection with Orthodoxy and it's not going away any time soon. Sure, younger generations are leaning more toward atheism, but Christianity or the people who follow it aren't mocked or deemed primitive. It's just a religion, a belief, a personal choice. In some other parts of the world, eh...kinda? Some might bring up the Crusades and how bad they were, but, in the end, it was a political move made by a political figure under a religious scope. It's not the religion itself to be blamed here, at least I don't think so, it's the people who abused it to convince the common folk. Anyway, that's for another story now. Religion is a very hot topic for some and I'd rather not go into those kinds of debates. There's also the topic of the recent rise in terrorism but ah, I want to talk about something else.

 

I'm going to focus just on the US from now on, to be noted, and I'm going to go a little bit "of the rails", not focusing strictly on religion.

 

I have to say that the "hate" for religion is part of a wider "family" of trends nowadays. What trends you say? LGBT, Black Lives Matter, to name a few. "Well hang on, what do they have to do with anything? Are you Christian, homophobic and racist?". No I'm not (but I am Orthodox if that matters); and I'm not saying the aforementioned movements are wrong. Just hang on with me for a sec...actually for more than a sec. A few weeks ago I've read a brilliant political article/essay on the New York Magazine about the current state of the US, more specifically about the Trump "movement".

 

 

TL;DR : The LGBT left, the rich community, The Black Lives Matter movement (under the symbol that was, unintentionally, Obama) and other movements are marginalizing("demonizing") the white working class, their race, their morals, their religion, their economic prospects, their gender. And of course, this only in turn creates more hatred and disdain from them. Trump saw this while others didn't, and that's one of the reasons of why he's become so successful.

I was brought up as an orthodox christian as well (Greek).  I have a big family and most have accepted religion as a philosophy, and practice communing and tradition in the church environment.  I don't accept the philosophy of christianity, but I enjoy the tradition and community.  The philosophy is too... dumb.  It is often contradicting and overly simple.

 

Now that article is an opinion piece, at least the sections you quoted.  There is not a hate for religion, but actions taken against others while screaming god, jesus and the holy spirit. 

 

In your summation of the article you fail to mention the institutional discrimination against cultural groups in the USA... religion, skin color, sexuality, even basic opportunity.  Christian discrimination would be very low on the totem pole of afflicted cultural groups. 

 

How many stories of people (North American) being beaten to death because they are christian have you heard?  I can confidently tell you that the reason the LGBTQ and black communities have banded, is to try and stop this type of violent behavior against their cultures.  They (minority groups) do get beaten, they do get killed, they do get falsely arrested... and because they are not "white christians".

 

Please don't perpetuate the idea that white christians are victims of discrimination in the west.  On top of all the lives lost because of idiots with superiority complexes, you are going to turn around and call the people that associate with the dominate cultural group victims?

 

...going to read the entire article now...

[colonelsofcorn]

47 minutes ago, Nineshadow said:

It depends. My country has a deep connection with Orthodoxy and it's not going away any time soon. Sure, younger generations are leaning more toward atheism, but Christianity or the people who follow it aren't mocked or deemed primitive. It's just a religion, a belief, a personal choice. In some other parts of the world, eh...kinda? Some might bring up the Crusades and how bad they were, but, in the end, it was a political move made by a political figure under a religious scope. It's not the religion itself to be blamed here, at least I don't think so, it's the people who abused it to convince the common folk. Anyway, that's for another story now. Religion is a very hot topic for some and I'd rather not go into those kinds of debates. There's also the topic of the recent rise in terrorism but ah, I want to talk about something else.

 

I'm going to focus just on the US from now on, to be noted, and I'm going to go a little bit "of the rails", not focusing strictly on religion.

 

I have to say that the "hate" for religion is part of a wider "family" of trends nowadays. What trends you say? LGBT, Black Lives Matter, to name a few. "Well hang on, what do they have to do with anything? Are you Christian, homophobic and racist?". No I'm not (but I am Orthodox if that matters); and I'm not saying the aforementioned movements are wrong. Just hang on with me for a sec...actually for more than a sec. A few weeks ago I've read a brilliant political article/essay on the New York Magazine about the current state of the US, more specifically about the Trump "movement".

 

 

TL;DR : The LGBT left, the rich community, The Black Lives Matter movement (under the symbol that was, unintentionally, Obama) and other movements are marginalizing("demonizing") the white working class, their race, their morals, their religion, their economic prospects, their gender. And of course, this only in turn creates more hatred and disdain from them. Trump saw this while others didn't, and that's one of the reasons of why he's become so successful.

That's a spot-on TL;DR.

[Nexxus]

6 hours ago, colonelsofcorn said:

They didn't observe him coming back to life, yes, but when someone is confirmed dead but is seen alive again later, he definitely did come back to life. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2032591/Woman-comes-back-to-life-after-being-dead-for-17-hours.html

Jesus v2? 

[Mug]

3 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

What you mean because Joseph Smith made a bunch of shit up about Jesus, as opposed to the bunch of shit the Apostles made up about Jesus two thousand years ago?

 

Yes Mormons are Christians, they believe in Jesus Christ even if they do their own remix.

Fair enough, it goes back to a fundamental argument of how far something evolves before you consider it something different which I suppose is a subjective matter.

[stconquest]

The guy above that agreed with the TL:DR... He does not even get that he is the sucker in the article the TL:DR addressed.  People like him are why the country can be politically crippled into dysfunction.  They are why the founding fathers protected the state from truly democratic movements that end up doing more harm than good.  Gone will be the days of calling your CiC a secret Muslim without fear.  Active militarized forces numbered in the millions going home to home to weed out the evil Mexicans.  A continually failing economy, will find easy targets to set the blame far from the government in power.  Political blunder, one after another, will further muddy the already muddy legislative branches of government.

 

Anyways... fuck that was a long article.  I would not call it brilliant, but it was a good read.  The author does make mistakes in his depiction of some current situations, no one is perfect.  I will try for a few examples, maybe one... I want a break:

 

Quote

This is an age in which a woman might succeed a black man as president, but also one in which a member of the white working class has declining options to make a decent living. This is a time when gay people can be married in 50 states, even as working-class families are hanging by a thread. It’s a period in which we have become far more aware of the historic injustices that still haunt African-Americans and yet we treat the desperate plight of today’s white working ­class as an afterthought. And so late-stage capitalism is creating a righteous, revolutionary anger that late-stage democracy has precious little ability to moderate or constrain — and has actually helped exacerbate.

 

 

Here the author is repeatedly associating cultural progression with economic disparity as if to depict the two as mutually inclusive where there is no evidence for such a conclusion.  A bit irresponsible.

 

There have always been the working caucasian poor.  This is not new.  Back in MLK's time, poor white people were taught to relish in the fact that they are not black... so it is not so bad.  Now blacks have made some cultural leaps towards equality and the white poor can't look down on them as easily.  There is no real evidence of people mocking poor white people the way blacks were mocked, so I won't accept this way of thinking.  Furthermore, mocking of whites is not systemically evident in stately officiating the way it still is done when flipping it back to target minority groups.

 

 

[Mug]

On ‎06‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 3:53 AM, Bhav said:

He believed in Jesus and God, therefore he was a christian. 

 

Again, what possible evidence do people who portray Hitler specifically as an 'athiest'? Just no real or valid reason at all other than to try and falsely attack athiesm. 

A couple of points about this post because I didn't see it before:

1. Read my posts in reply to Misanthrope - the fact is that this matter of whether Hitler was a Christian is subjective
2. Attack atheism? Who is suggesting Hitler was an atheist? Atheism isn't a religion, there isn't a specific way of following atheism or conducting yourself as an atheist; you simply don't have a religion. You're acting as if it's something more than a zero instead of a one.

[colonelsofcorn]

1 hour ago, Nexxus said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2032591/Woman-comes-back-to-life-after-being-dead-for-17-hours.html

Jesus v2? 

Not a self resurrection. 

[colonelsofcorn]

1 hour ago, Charger said:

I don't even care about the claim the title makes its the "too many hate" that bugs me every time I read it.

I don't know if it's about the hate itself that bugs you, but the fact that it says "too many" not "too much" hate REALLY gets on my nerves 

[Charger]

2 hours ago, colonelsofcorn said:

I don't know if it's about the hate itself that bugs you, but the fact that it says "too many" not "too much" hate REALLY gets on my nerves 

just the "too many" rather than "too much" part lol 

[MrDynamicMan]

On August 6, 2016 at 8:17 AM, colonelsofcorn said:

Jesus backed up the Bible, and proved himself to be God by doing something totally unique - a self-resurrection. 

Thats a logical fallacy. The bible was written several decades after jesus died and its pretty likely that most of the things the bible described jesus are hyperbole or never happened. Noahs ark, for example, or the world only being 6000 years old.

 

Harry potter is real and can do magic because the harry potter books said that he was real and could do magic? You see the problem here? There is no control or reference from an external source.

[colonelsofcorn]

13 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Thats a logical fallacy. The bible was written several decades after jesus died and its pretty likely that most of the things the bible described jesus are hyperbole or never happened. Noahs ark, for example, or the world only being 6000 years old.

 

Harry potter is real and can do magic because the harry potter books said that he was real and could do magic? You see the problem here? There is no control or reference from an external source.

First of all, circular logic is an entirely valid form of logic - everyone uses it daily. Secondly, when someone can prove themselves to be God, I'll 100 percent trust what they are going to say. Period. 

[stconquest]

13 minutes ago, ScootsMcgoots said:

I dunno, I think it's a cultural clash.  Look at Dubai.  As good as it gets in the middle east in relation to infrastructure, wealth and education.  STILL laws there are heavily influenced by a religious text.  Yes the US has some laws that are "inspired" from a religious text but not nearly as much as it is in the UAE.  

So US policy is driven only partly by idiocy... that's okay then. 

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, ScootsMcgoots said:

oh my god I hate people like you on the internet. "OHh I see so it's ok for you to do it but  no them". No. I never said that you twat.  I was talking about a cultural clash.  The middle east clearly has a different culture as opposed to the west.

Trump's running mate: 

IDIOCY

 

[colonelsofcorn]

Just now, stconquest said:

Trump's running mate: 

 

Lmao this is gold 

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, ScootsMcgoots said:

Yes.  He can say he's going to  do that.  Any US citizen  can run for president. A guy with a fucking boot on his head who said he would give unicorns to everyone ran.  I'm not voting for trump. Why did you even being this up? 

This is a member of your government addressing the congress to convince them to teach "Adam and Eve" in science class.

[Misanthrope]

18 hours ago, Mug said:

A couple of points about this post because I didn't see it before:

1. Read my posts in reply to Misanthrope - the fact is that this matter of whether Hitler was a Christian is subjective
2. Attack atheism? Who is suggesting Hitler was an atheist? Atheism isn't a religion, there isn't a specific way of following atheism or conducting yourself as an atheist; you simply don't have a religion. You're acting as if it's something more than a zero instead of a one.

Regarding 2 you might not be making this point but again, one of the main point of Creationists and Christians is very usually "Morality is absolute and it comes from God (and specifically Jesus and Yahweh at that) henceforth people without religion are inherently immoral and evil."

 

It's a ridiculous argument but it gets made constantly and that's why pointing out Hitler as a Christ Believer is basically the exception that disproves the rule and launches them into a lame "Not all Christians" or "He wasn't a true Christian" argument deflating the argument since apparently is not all Christian but yes all Atheists.

[Bhav]

You hear theists all the time calling Hitler an atheist and grouping him with Stalin and Mao to try and make a point that atheists are also naughty. But the fact is he never once identified as an atheist, and actually has far many more links to having been Christian.

 

Also this:

 

 

[stconquest]

Just now, ScootsMcgoots said:

That's never going to happen( hopefully).  It's not forbidden to kiss in public in the US,  it's not illegal to being anti christian material into the US, sex outside marriage isn't considered illegal in the US.  In the UAE, those are (if you replace Christianity  with their religion)  .  Yes those rules do get bent, but the fact is in the middle east women get allot less respect than the would in western countries.  They are improving but still.....anyway, I never said that we don't have laws that are clearly religion inspired and said this "  Yes the US has some laws that are "inspired" from a religious text but not nearly as much as it is in the UAE.   " in hopes to deter people like you from telling me shit I'm already fully aware of.

The fuck?  Why are you so obtuse?  You pride yourself on living in a country that is not run by religious demagogues, good for you.  The problem is, almost every member of your government is a christian... oh damn.. O H  D A M N.

[stconquest]

34 minutes ago, ScootsMcgoots said:

I dunno, I think it's a cultural clash.  Look at Dubai.  As good as it gets in the middle east in relation to infrastructure, wealth and education.  STILL laws there are heavily influenced by a religious text.  Yes the US has some laws that are "inspired" from a religious text but not nearly as much as it is in the UAE.  

How does that matter to any US citizen?

1 minute ago, ScootsMcgoots said:

Again, saying I said things I never did. "you pride yourself" shut the fuck up. I never said I prided my self in anything including my country.  I'm done talking to you. 

Yeah, you need to work on your understanding of how to use english to communicate.  Firstly, you implied the US is okay because it is not the UAE.  Secondly, you are being a rude ass little shit. 

[SLAYR]

58 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Thats a logical fallacy. The bible was written several decades after jesus died and its pretty likely that most of the things the bible described jesus are hyperbole or never happened. Noahs ark, for example, or the world only being 6000 years old.

Just pointing out, the bible never mentions any sort of age of the world, the 6000 year approximation was calculated through vague geneology references by various people 400 to 1800 years ago.

[stconquest]

You done?

[stconquest]

So, not done?

[colonelsofcorn]

This conversation has so many sidetracks and off-topic discussions that I laugh every time I see the title and then read the thread LOL