How Friggin Hot Are 1HP Pool Pump Motors Supposed To Get?

[iamdarkyoshi]

I am using this motor on 240V in my garage on my 15in impeller dust collector.

 

I know for a fact that I have my wiring correct.

 

After about 10 minutes of sucking up everything within reach, the motor has gotten really quite hot. If I were to guess, the outer chassis is about 60 degrees.

 

These motors are rated for constant duty and do have a temp cutoff which I have never met, but for constant duty, it really feels too hot. How hot are these things supposed to get?

[glitchmaster0001]

make a heatsink for it by attaching heatspreader fins to it lololol 

[manikyath]

high power electric motors can (and will) get quite hot.

take into account they have roughly an efficiency of 40-60%, with the power they take, i dont have to do the math for you in how much heat that results.

 

i'm honesly surprised that thing isnt covered in heatsinks.

 

usually (especially bigger ones) electric motors have a built in fan that circulates air trough the "functional elements", if this motor has that, check if it's clogged or dirty.

--

if it has thermal protection and doesnt shut itself down, chances are its just fine tho.

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, manikyath said:

high power electric motors can (and will) get quite hot.

take into account they have roughly an efficiency of 40-60%, with the power they take, i dont have to do the math for you in how much heat that results.

 

i'm honesly surprised that thing isnt covered in heatsinks.

 

usually (especially bigger ones) electric motors have a built in fan that circulates air trough the "functional elements", if this motor has that, check if it's clogged or dirty.

--

if it has thermal protection and doesnt shut itself down, chances are its just fine tho.

Yeah its an almost brand new motor, there is no dust in it at all and the fan does move air through it. I too am surprised it isnt covered in heatsinks.

[Enderman]

1Hp = 746W

and they usually have like 30-60% efficiency

so thats like 500W of heat

60C sounds pretty normal

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Yeah its an almost brand new motor, there is no dust in it at all and the fan does move air through it. I too am surprised it isnt covered in heatsinks.

guessing they decided that with the fan it wasnt necessary. there actually seems to be a trend of motors running hotter in general, maybe it's to save on the power loss in cooling it down?

[petem]

8 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

I am using this motor on 240V in my garage on my 15in impeller dust collector.

 

I know for a fact that I have my wiring correct.

 

After about 10 minutes of sucking up everything within reach, the motor has gotten really quite hot. If I were to guess, the outer chassis is about 60 degrees.

 

These motors are rated for constant duty and do have a temp cutoff which I have never met, but for constant duty, it really feels too hot. How hot are these things supposed to get?

According to pool folks, 140+ degrees f (60 celcius) is typical, if it cycles on and off then it's hitting the thermal trip.

 

You don't need to worry until the sticky labels start sliding off... 

 

- Pete

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, petem said:

According to pool folks, 140+ degrees f (60 celcius) is typical, if it cycles on and off then it's hitting the thermal trip.

 

You don't need to worry until the sticky labels start sliding off... 

 

- Pete

is your electric motor leaking molten metal? chances are you need more cooling. 

 

but yeah.. as long as you dont reach the melting point of anything inside it's fine. (the first one on that list most likely being the bearings)

[iamdarkyoshi]

2 minutes ago, petem said:

According to pool folks, 140+ degrees f (60 celcius) is typical, if it cycles on and off then it's hitting the thermal trip.

 

You don't need to worry until the sticky labels start sliding off... 

 

- Pete

They rivited the labels on

 

Its a shame my other motor doesnt work, it has the same specs but its older and a fair bit larger, and the cooling is much better.

[petem]

1 minute ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

They rivited the labels on

 

Its a shame my other motor doesnt work, it has the same specs but its older and a fair bit larger, and the cooling is much better.

Did it overheat (melting its windings), or just lose a bearing?  Bearings are easily repairable, windings not so much...

[iamdarkyoshi]

7 minutes ago, petem said:

Did it overheat (melting its windings), or just lose a bearing?  Bearings are easily repairable, windings not so much...

It wont start, it just sits there and hums. I cant find a wiring diagram anywhere, so it may have been wired wrong when I got it. The part I cant understand it that it uses some sort of electronic switch to start, which might be faulty.

[petem]

1 minute ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

It wont start, it just sits there and hums. I cant find a wiring diagram anywhere, so it may have been wired wrong when I got it. The part I cant understand it that it uses some sort of electronic switch to start, which might be faulty.

Does it turn freely while it's humming?

[You_are_a_cunt]

Because it's a pool pump motor it's designed with little to no heatsinking in mind since it's assumed that it will be submerged in water (or at least I would assume, unless it's not an underwater pump).

 

IIRC they get really hot (90C+) when not submerged or under high load and they're a bitch to deal with

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, petem said:

Does it turn freely while it's humming?

Yeah. It feels like it is making no effort to turn. And without any fan forced airflow, it makes hot smells pretty quick. It buzzes pretty loudly. The windings dont look like they have ever gotten hot though.

[petem]

6 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

Yeah. It feels like it is making no effort to turn. And without any fan forced airflow, it makes hot smells pretty quick. It buzzes pretty loudly. The windings dont look like they have ever gotten hot though.

Sounds like a miswire or a short - I'm no expert, but there are plenty how-to's on troubleshooting a generic motor - measuring continuity, winding resistance etc.

 

Maybe you just found your summer project - or maybe it found you? 

 

As for the new motor, if there is space between the motor and the pulley, you might consider adding a fan in there, or possibly replacing the pulley with one that has fan blades built-in (if it's large enough).

[iamdarkyoshi]

4 minutes ago, petem said:

Sounds like a miswire or a short - I'm no expert, but there are plenty how-to's on troubleshooting a generic motor - measuring continuity, winding resistance etc.

 

Maybe you just found your summer project - or maybe it found you? 

 

As for the new motor, if there is space between the motor and the pulley, you might consider adding a fan in there, or possibly replacing the pulley with one that has fan blades built-in (if it's large enough).

The impeller is mounted directly to the motor. And It spins at 3450RPM.

 

And its made of wood. This thing is friggin terrifying...

[petem]

8 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

The impeller is mounted directly to the motor. And It spins at 3450RPM.

 

And its made of wood. This thing is friggin terrifying...

Too bad they didn't run the water around the motor a few times ala CPU coolers - would heat the pool and cool the motor.

 

Or maybe *that's* your new summer project ! 

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 minute ago, petem said:

Too bad they didn't run the water around the motor a few times ala CPU coolers - would heat the pool and cool the motor.

 

Or maybe *that's* your new summer project ! 

I think my summer project is passing my college classes.......

[petem]

10 minutes ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

I think my summer project is passing my college classes.......

Oh, well ... front burner beats back burner every time 

 

But a cooper coiled water pipe with heat transferring mounting fins sounds like a fun back burner project...

 

Ha!  Maybe you could submit it to the next LTT custom build competition?  I don't recall any mention of your build having to *actually* be a PC (although I'm sure @Whaler_99 would update the rules soon after, lol).

[Hackentosher]

Maybe you could fabricate a water jacket for the motor and plumb it to your old radiators. Although if it's not tripping, I wouldn't worry about it. 

1 hour ago, revsilverspine said:

Because it's a pool pump motor it's designed with little to no heatsinking in mind since it's assumed that it will be submerged in water (or at least I would assume, unless it's not an underwater pump).

I have never seen a submerged pump. The one at my house is above ground, every other house ivr been to, hell even the commercial grade ones at public and school pools are above ground. Maybe they can be cooled like a D5 pump, dumping some of the heat into the water? 

[You_are_a_cunt]

2 hours ago, Hackentosher said:

Maybe you could fabricate a water jacket for the motor and plumb it to your old radiators. Although if it's not tripping, I wouldn't worry about it. 

I have never seen a submerged pump. The one at my house is above ground, every other house ivr been to, hell even the commercial grade ones at public and school pools are above ground. Maybe they can be cooled like a D5 pump, dumping some of the heat into the water? 

My grandparents live in the countryside with no running water. They rely on underground springs and, well, good ol' wells. They've gotten quite old and raising buckets of water from the well gets kinda hard when yer 70 pushing 80, so we got them a couple of submersible pumps to ease their daily activities (and make an automated sprinkler system).

 

They're pretty much built like this:

Spoiler

 

[You_are_a_cunt]

Here's yer motor: http://www.emd-inc.com/inventory/details.cfm?item=1041926083

http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/products/Single_Phase_Motors_with_Face_Mount/M01653.html

One thing that pops to mind is you running it at 240V, which is about 10V above the manufacturer spec (shouldn't count, normally; that will contribute to additional heat)

[iamdarkyoshi]

37 minutes ago, revsilverspine said:

Here's yer motor: http://www.emd-inc.com/inventory/details.cfm?item=1041926083

http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/products/Single_Phase_Motors_with_Face_Mount/M01653.html

One thing that pops to mind is you running it at 240V, which is about 10V above the manufacturer spec (shouldn't count, normally; that will contribute to additional heat)

I would imagine by the end of the massive cable I am using, it probably drops to 230v

[klh2000]

2 hours ago, iamdarkyoshi said:

I would imagine by the end of the massive cable I am using, it probably drops to 230v

Oh that's nothing compared to what is cobbled together at my shop!

 

My garage us detached from the house and is probably 150 feet away from the house. There is a 14 gauge cloth-wrapped wire from the 1940s running from the house to the garage, that wire is feeding a compressor with a 2 hp motor, and some lighting, angle grinders, etc... When the shop is running we drop to about 90 volts from the 120 at the breaker box . 

 

I am fixing all of this by running a four conductor 8 gauge wire out there so I can have 240v for the welders, and good 120v.

 

[iamdarkyoshi]

3 hours ago, klh2000 said:

Oh that's nothing compared to what is cobbled together at my shop!

 

My garage us detached from the house and is probably 150 feet away from the house. There is a 14 gauge cloth-wrapped wire from the 1940s running from the house to the garage, that wire is feeding a compressor with a 2 hp motor, and some lighting, angle grinders, etc... When the shop is running we drop to about 90 volts from the 120 at the breaker box . 

 

I am fixing all of this by running a four conductor 8 gauge wire out there so I can have 240v for the welders, and good 120v.

 

My previous home has you beat. Knob and tube wiring. Everywhere. No ground.