John Carmack believes that Microsoft and Sony will be hostile towards Mantle due to it's implications for Steam Boxes.

[Vitalius]

I found this tweet utterly bizarre. 



... I don't understand this. I figured Mantle meant even better optimizations for consoles. Or at least much more efficient optimizations (they can be done faster and save developers time and money). 

Mantle only applies to GCN based GPU's. Kaveri, which is the next generation of AMD APU's, and (IIRC) the APU in the consoles, would fall under that listing.

Though, I suppose it's possible this means that PC's will have Console optimizations, but Consoles will not change much, if at all, in regards to that. Then I can understand the hostility. However, considering AMD had to be working pretty closely with M$ and Sony to produce the consoles, you would think the Console makers would know about Mantle ahead of time. Strange. 

I don't know. I suppose I could be reading far too much into this, but what do you guys think?

If this is under the wrong Forum section, feel free to move it. I just felt it was news worthy. 

This image was pulled from this article [www.seekingalpha.com]. 

That article basically outlines how AMD has positioned itself in the gaming industry in regards to M$, Sony, Intel, and Nvidia. 

I found it pretty interesting. I found it especially interesting that the Xbox 360 has UMA (Unified Memory Architecture). I mean, come on. That was pretty innovative considering the direction the industry is going in now. 

[Poohy14]

very interesting indeed

 

makes me wonder now

[LonliestofAll]

Since when was Mantle bad for Microsoft? Did Carmack forget that Microsoft owns Windows the #1 OS for gamers?

[beebskadoo]

The new consoles say they support HUMA (heterogeneous unified memory architecture) But APU's they are based on don't support HUMA...So someone is lying about that at MS/Sony

When John Carmack speaks, the industry listens, and now that he has his hands on the Oculus, Big things are coming. 

Depending on how much market share the Steam Box/OS has we may never see any mudslinging across the aisle.

To my understanding, the XboxOne used a lower level form of DirectX...Not sure what PS4 uses though.

[beebskadoo]

Since when was Mantle bad for Microsoft? Did Carmack forget that Microsoft owns Windows the #1 OS for gamers?

You dare defy the words of the almighty Carmack? *Gasp

[Xorbot]

Since when was Mantle bad for Microsoft? Did Carmack forget that Microsoft owns Windows the #1 OS for gamers?

 

...And DirectX, which has Mantle as an incredible threat?

[Vitalius]

Since when was Mantle bad for Microsoft? Did Carmack forget that Microsoft owns Windows the #1 OS for gamers?

 

This-V

...And DirectX, which has Mantle as an incredible threat?

DirectX is the only reason Gamers use Windows as their OS. I would be using Linux if games worked on it like they do on Windows. And with Mantle & SteamOS coming, they will. 

[MbV93]

Carmack said this because Mantle replaces Direct3D (owned by microsoft) and since the Steam Machines are going to use Linux, He is speculating that Mantle could be used in Linux for great performance in games easily and then we wouldn't need to pay for Windows...

[LonliestofAll]

You dare defy the words of the almighty Carmack? *Gasp

I speculate that since Steam OS is still going to need a server computer running Windows to be able to play your Windows based games, so in a way Windows is still being used. Wouldn't Mantle still work on Windows?

[Mooshi]

If there is rustling over this, I'd laugh so hard that I'd probably choke, get a glass of water and laugh some more. I couldn't care less if the Xbox One and PS4 end up bombing over something so petty like this. All it'd mean is more exclusives coming PC side and better graphics to go along with it.

 

Keep making your Marios and your Zeldas and your Pokemons, Nintendo.

[LinusTech]

Great thread so far. Tweeted.

[JDGaulin]

DirectX is a poor graphics API. Mantle isn't any better as it is limited to AMD GPUs. So OpenGL is the future.

Mantle is open... AMD is just the only one using it currently. 

 

correction: It is not. I was basing this on a shitty article. GCN cores only. 

[Matsy]

We are only still using Windows because we are forced too, since linux is bad for gaming right now (support wise)

With mantle, that will shift and we will have a choice, and with SteamOS coming, oh boy, things could get rather exciting.

Microsoft better be crapping its pants atm.

[beebskadoo]

I speculate that since Steam OS is still going to need a server computer running Windows to be able to play your Windows based games, so in a way Windows is still being used. Wouldn't Mantle still work on Windows?

Yeah I see no reason why it wouldn't, I mean there's always WINE for Linux...

[beebskadoo]

Great thread so far. Tweeted.

Will this be on the WAN show?

[LonliestofAll]

This-V

DirectX is the only reason Gamers use Windows as their OS. I would be using Linux if games worked on it like they do on Windows. And with Mantle & SteamOS coming, they will. 

Then, Microsoft let Mantle take over unless you can make an open API that has the same levels of acsess. Also don't force it onto gamers.

[beebskadoo]

Then, Microsoft let Mantle take over unless you can make an open API that has the same levels of acsess. Also don't force it onto gamers.

Mantle has nothing to do with Microsoft, It is up to the developers to implement it in their games and I can tell you right now, we won't be seeing any Mantle specific games for quite a while.

[beebskadoo]

We are only still using Windows because we are forced too, since linux is bad for gaming right now.

With mantle, that will shift and we will have a choice, and with SteamOS coming, oh boy, things could get rather exciting.

Microsoft better be crapping its pants atm.

Linux isn't bad for gaming at all, what it lacks though is triple A titles and Driver support (though AMD and Nvidia have stepped up their game) 

[Dravic]

 

If "next-gen" weakling consoles would have an AMD kavieri APU inside they wouldnt be able to play even 720p at 30fps so...  nope, they dont have a Kavieri APU inside. They have a dedicated GPU and 8 weak jaguar mobile-processor cores linked together on a special PCB and use HSA/hUMA. So a bit like APU but it is not a simple iGPU of a size of normal CPU, it's a regular GPU afaik.

[Vitalius]

Wouldn't Mantle still work on Windows?

Yes, it would, but why buy Windows when games work in Linux just fine? (In the future when Mantle is prevalent in gaming) Enthusiasts like us would prefer to save money and use the superior platform. Which would be Linux in this case now that gaming is much more viable on it (again, when Mantle is prevalent).

 

Mantle is open... AMD is just the only one using it currently.

Really? Awesome . Didn't know that. Link to source please?

Mantle has nothing to do with Microsoft, It is up to the developers to implement it in their games and I can tell you right now, we won't be seeing any Mantle specific games for quite a while.

I doubt that personally. AMD's whole point in this is that it will be easy and prevalent. Games are already optimized for specific GPU's (all the AMD Never Settle ones for example), so I don't know what would stop newer games from being Mantle specific if AMD can get them to be AMD specific already.

If "next-gen" weakling consoles would have an AMD kavieri APU inside they wouldnt be able to play even 720p at 30fps so...  nope, they dont have a Kavieri APU inside. They have a dedicated GPU and 8 weak jaguar mobile-processor cores linked together on a special PCB and use HSA/hUMA. So a bit like APU but it is not a simple iGPU of a size of normal CPU, it's a regular GPU afaik.

Your hate on AMD ever clear, I still take nothing you say about them seriously.

[rashdanml]

I speculate that since Steam OS is still going to need a server computer running Windows to be able to play your Windows based games, so in a way Windows is still being used. Wouldn't Mantle still work on Windows?

Only for games that don't get ported. 300+ have already been ported, with more constantly on its way. Only time will tell which games will run natively on Linux.

[Matsy]

Linux isn't bad for gaming at all, what it lacks though is triple A titles and Driver support (though AMD and Nvidia have stepped up their game) 

 

Yeh well that is what I meant , its not really an option due to the lack of support.

If mantle is what they say it is, then linux is going to be the top dog.  Or OpenGL....

[LonliestofAll]

Yeah I see no reason why it wouldn't, I mean there's always WINE for Linux...

I've used Wine, and It works for very few applications of mine. I am looking forward to Linux, I just see no reason for Microsoft to worry right now. Linux isn't quite ready for the spotlight, but it soon will be.

 

Edit: I do more than just game on my PC, I am currently working on learning programming and Game Development. I can't use Linux until there is a good game engine on it that I can use for my games. I am a fan of Linux stuff, but I just can;'t use it for everything, and I only like to have one OS on a machine.

[ToToRoTY]

M$ -> Supports DirectX.

AMD Mantle -/-> By passes DirectX. What happens now? Linux might pop up and support AAA titles, and it's free! Incentive, incentive, incentive. If only some developers were to develop a Linux variant with lower technical ceiling, something your grandma can use. Cough* Ubuntu Cough*, isn't that far from it, and within a few generations, it's good bye M$ and hello Linux.

 

For those compatibility softwares, Window is still needed, but the market share will definitely fall.

As for Sony, how could they justify their pricing plan when everything is going cheaper?

 

Then there is virtualization, Linux might or might be able to emulate a Windows OS efficient enough to run all those scientific softwares and what not. Then.......

[beebskadoo]

If "next-gen" weakling consoles would have an AMD kavieri APU inside they wouldnt be able to play even 720p at 30fps so...  nope, they dont have a Kavieri APU inside. They have a dedicated GPU and 8 weak jaguar mobile-processor cores linked together on a special PCB and use HSA/hUMA. So a bit like APU but it is not a simple iGPU of a size of normal CPU, it's a regular GPU afaik.

They have a custom APU made by AMD that uses the Kaveri architecture. The Graphics portion is significantly beefed up in comparison to Mobile/Desktop APU's and the CPU portion uses 8 jaguar cores. It is entirely custom for both consoles. Kaveri doesn't support HUMA either. It supports technology similar to huma but not true huma.