New Chinese Super-Computer is the fastest in the world - 93 Petaflops - made without US chips

[patrickjp93]

2 hours ago, Citadelen said:

You know AMD can and has recently started licencing their designs to a Chinese Consortium that designed their chips off of AMD's technology.

Not to this one, and it's way to soon for that sort of venture tech to show up.

 

And this is nothing. Oak Ridge will have a 400 Petaflops Super Computer built exclusively by Intel and Cray before the close of the year.

[vanished]

1 hour ago, RagnarokDel said:

Inb4 it's used to mine bitcoin

They already have one for that:

 

[Bouzoo]

4 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

And this is nothing. Oak Ridge will have a 400 Petaflops Super Computer built exclusively by Intel and Cray before the close of the year.

Someone builds the fastest supercomputer ever but no, it's NOTHING because Intel and Cray will build an even more powerful one. Wow. Almost 3 time faster than anything else before it with custom chinese chips and it's nothing. Because Intel will do something better. 

[SLAYR]

Using "unusually power efficient" to descine a 2MW drop from 17MW to 15MW, that is still a lot of power needed to run the machine, and it could power a few thousand houses with the power needed to use it.

[Bouzoo]

3 minutes ago, SLAYR said:

Using "unusually power efficient" to descine a 2MW drop from 17MW to 15MW, that is still a lot of power needed to run the machine, and it could power a few thousand houses with the power needed to use it.

Ture, but it uses 2MW while being almost 3 times faster than the one that uses 17MW. Surely there are some big differences except the lower power consumption, but I'll let someone else with more knowledge in that area explain it.  

[vanished]

2 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

Ture, but it uses 2MW while being almost 3 times faster than the one that uses 17MW. Surely there are some big differences except the lower power consumption, but I'll let someone else with more knowledge in that area explain it.  

Let's just say that if a new video card came out that dropped the TDP from 340 W to 300 W while getting 3x more fps, we'd call it "unusually efficient" too

[Bouzoo]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Let's just say that if a new video card came out that dropped the TDP from 340 W to 300 W while getting 3x more fps, we'd call it "unusually efficient" too

No RX480, um sorry, pun intended right? 

[vanished]

2 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

No RX480, um sorry, pun intended right? 

I wasn't referencing anything in particular or trying to make a pun...

[Lethal Seraph]

Well, they obviously had to create their own chips. Not only cause of the contraband, but mainly for state-sponsored backdoor. 

[Sparviero]

I doubt it is home grown Chinese. It is a western chip which they hope they found and removed all the back doors. Since the Chinese steal all of our IP here's hoping they missed a couple. 

[Citadelen]

11 hours ago, brune67 said:

@Citadelen @Nena360 @spartaman64 According to PC world: 

 ShenWei is owned by  Jiāngnán Computing Lab  . AMD licensed to  Tianjin Haiguang Advanced Technology Investment Co . 2 separate companies.

I never claimed it was made from AMD's technology, only that they are licencing it to Tianjin.

[patrickjp93]

7 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

Someone builds the fastest supercomputer ever but no, it's NOTHING because Intel and Cray will build an even more powerful one. Wow. Almost 3 time faster than anything else before it with custom chinese chips and it's nothing. Because Intel will do something better. 

It's nothing because it has only 76% efficiency w.r.t. it's theoretical peak performance, and look at the power draw vs. the performance. All it is, is epeen that's not particularly useful. Who cares if you have the biggest anything in the world if it's not useful?

 

It's nearly as much of an eyesore as the Tianhe-II which was built from weaker Intel chips due to the embargo.

[VerticalDiscussions]

So im wondering, if each one of these "custom" cpus has 260 cores, how would they fare against something like the Intel® Xeon® Processor E7-8890 v4 (60M Cache, 2.20 GHz), which should be theyr fastest skylake xeon cpu?

[Briggsy]

13 hours ago, Yog said:

From what I've heard supercomputers are losing usefulness and being replaced with distributed computing. I don't know how true that is since I'm not in a field that would utilize them but if it is true china building the biggest supercomputer is like Ford building the Excursion (the biggest SUV that was discontinued only after a few years), a bit late to the game and now you'll just have people complaining about your carbon footprint. Which isn't to say supercomputers would become useless, just the usefulness of continuously building the biggest and best is diminished.

Given it uses less power than their previous supercomputer, but is 300% faster, that could be an argument that they are working towards greener solutions. I doubt distributed computing at 93 Petaflops would use less energy, at this point in time at least.

[Bouzoo]

4 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

It's nothing because it has only 76% efficiency w.r.t. it's theoretical peak performance, and look at the power draw vs. the performance. All it is, is epeen that's not particularly useful. Who cares if you have the biggest anything in the world if it's not useful?

 

It's nearly as much of an eyesore as the Tianhe-II which was built from weaker Intel chips due to the embargo.

As long as it's been used for something it's been designed for it's everything except "not particularly useful".

Draw power vs performance? Please do explain, since in that regard it's better than many supercomputers to date. It's only natural that something even more efficient will come, but this is not a small feat. But to be fair, it only has 74% efficiency, not 76% (according to TOP500, which is interesting math). It's no Riken, but it's still much better than 65% Titan or 61% Tianhe-2 have. So yeah, it's also more efficient that the current Oak Ridge, albeit the new supercomputers will demolish it. But those are not coming that soon.

The 400 Petaflops will be combined, there will be no 400 petaflops in a single supercomputer, especially not by Cray (from what I got it could be 400-500 petaflops from all 3, depending on your sources). However Summit and Sierra will be 150 petaflops each and ~180 petaflops for Aurora. Summit in Oak Ridge will be build by IBM (not Cray, you can check their official site), Sierra in Lawrence Livermore also by IBM and Aurora in Argonne by Intel/Cray.

To quote:

Quote

The fastest supercomputers in the world is the aim of the Department of Energy's Coral (Collaboration of Oak Ridge, Argonne, and Livermore) program. Coral aims to supersede its current cluster supercomputers, Titan, Mira, and Sequoia, respectively, with 100+ petaflop supercomputers using pre-exascale architectures, which will maintain the US leadership position with smarter supercomputer architectures one-step beyond today's "clusters."

The DoE announced today it has chosen IBM's "data centric" architecture for Oak Ridge National Lab's new "Summit" and Lawrence Livermore National Lab's new "Sierra," both to be completed by 2017. Argonne National Labs will choose a different architecture (yet to be announced) for its pre-exascale supercomputer. Altogether the Coral program should add up to 400 petaflops to the US supercomputer arsenal.

 

Oak Ridge National Labs, Argonne National Labs and Lawrence Livermore National Labs will install three new supercomputers with a combined speed of 400 petaflops by 2017.
(SOURCE: Livermore National Labs)

 

This is an older article but it gives you a general insight.

Also Summit is coming in 2018, Sierra in 2017-2018 and Aurora won't start before 2019. So please state your sources.

[brune67]

8 hours ago, Sparviero said:

I doubt it is home grown Chinese. It is a western chip which they hope they found and removed all the back doors. Since the Chinese steal all of our IP here's hoping they missed a couple. 

Why is it that every time the Chinese do something fantastic, everyone claims they stole someone's idea, like c'mon, they are people, they can have good ideas too. Now that's not to say that they haven't stolen people's idea's in the past, but at least give them some credit. That's also not to say they aren't stealing ideas this time, but to me, it would appear that this is THEIR OWN technology.

[ZestyJalapeno]

34 minutes ago, brune67 said:

Why is it that every time the Chinese do something fantastic, everyone claims they stole someone's idea, like c'mon, they are people, they can have good ideas too. Now that's not to say that they haven't stolen people's idea's in the past, but at least give them some credit. That's also not to say they aren't stealing ideas this time, but to me, it would appear that this is THEIR OWN technology.

The Chinese government especially encourages plagiarising from top to bottom. In school they do not teach their children how to be creative...they teach them by making them copy everything on the board for hours which the teacher has written down for them, then they're told to do the same at home. Assignments all the way up to uni age are graded on how similar it is to the teacher's own work. The people are indoctrinated to be cheaters. Have a look at all the things they manufacture like phones, cars, jets...everything is copied. The state sponsors cyber-crime on a massive scale. I have no doubt this is infringing on at least one Western patent.

[SurvivorNVL]

Just imagine all the encryption and spying they're going to do with this.  No matter what they say on the surface, the innards are what matter.

[brune67]

1 hour ago, Dogeystyle said:

I have no doubt this is infringing on at least one Western patent.

 

1 hour ago, SurvivorNVL said:

Just imagine all the encryption and spying they're going to do with this.  No matter what they say on the surface, the innards are what matter.

This is true, but you can't just assume they are infringing or stealing without proof, innocent until proven guilty right?

 

 

[Trixanity]

42 minutes ago, brune67 said:

Why is it that every time the Chinese do something fantastic, everyone claims they stole someone's idea, like c'mon, they are people, they can have good ideas too. Now that's not to say that they haven't stolen people's idea's in the past, but at least give them some credit. That's also not to say they aren't stealing ideas this time, but to me, it would appear that this is THEIR OWN technology.

 

3 minutes ago, Dogeystyle said:

The Chinese government especially encourages plagiarising from top to bottom. In school they do not teach their children how to be creative...they teach them by making them copy everything on the board for hours which the teacher has written down for them, then they're told to do the same at home. Assignments all the way up to uni age are graded on how similar it is to the teacher's own work. The people are indoctrinated to be cheaters. Have a look at all the things they manufacture like phones, cars, jets...everything is copied. The state sponsors cyber-crime on a massive scale. I have no doubt this is infringing on at least one Western patent.

 

China steals. That's a known fact. They steal a lot. 

 

However, historically speaking: everyone steals.

The US has stolen a lot, the UK has stolen a lot etc etc.

 

It's not a new thing. It's just (in most ways) easier to do today and also much more noticeable. So we notice China steals pretty much everything there is and has turned it into an art form.

[ZestyJalapeno]

2 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

 

 

However, historically speaking: everyone steals.

The US has stolen a lot, the UK has stolen a lot etc etc.

 

Care to provide some examples? 

[Trixanity]

35 minutes ago, Dogeystyle said:

Care to provide some examples? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/François_Xavier_d'Entrecolles

Guy stole from the Chinese: How to make porcelain.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/6-things-us-stole-from-germans-during-wwii-2015-5?r=US&IR=T&IR=T

World War 2 is a prime example on all sides. As noted in the article: both the Allies and the Soviets stole rocket technology from Germany. And that's just the most well-known example.

 

Post-Independence the US did all they could to steal all of Great Britain's shit:

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-02-18/us-complains-other-nations-are-stealing-us-technology-america-has-history

 

X steals from Y who steals from Z who steals from...

http://www.allaboutlean.com/industrial-espionage-and-revolution/

 

There are many examples but funnily enough they've become hard to find on Google because searching for espionage and similar keywords mostly brings up how China steals from the US. One has to be very precise and very specific to find other results than that.

[SurvivorNVL]

1 hour ago, brune67 said:

 

This is true, but you can't just assume they are infringing or stealing without proof, innocent until proven guilty right?

 

 

Innocence until proven guilty often applies to countries that apply and abide by those rules.  China isn't one such country, especially when they often encourage mass cyber surveillance, espionage of companies outside and inside China.  I expect them to make use of their supercomputers to target any and all foreign companies, European, and especially American as well as governments.  It's what they do.  Copying is an art of perfection for them.

[Linus_torvalds]

Today we have better/faster phones then supercomputers from the past like 80s, imagine in the future we will have phones (or something like them  ) with this kind of performance and hardware.

 

P.S. I won't ask because i know that it runs crysis

[laminutederire]

20 hours ago, DXMember said:

but, why did they make the AMD deal then??

and either way this is way too fast for AMD to be involved with that deal they made just a month ago

For all we know amd is capable of making super Uber powerful chips, they just can't make one cheaply for customers