Do you think hardware manufacturers are pushing the standard price llimit up to another level as performance in technology progress?

[SteveGrabowski0]

17 hours ago, No said:

I've only noticed Nvidia doing this 

You forgot the $500 HD 7970? That's how we got into this huge price inflation. AMD put out a so-so card and charged flagship prices for something that Nvidia was then able to beat with its 560 Ti successor (the GTX 680). And so Nvidia could overcharge $500 for that level of performance too. HD 7970 and GTX 680 basically doubled gpu prices.

[Prysin]

15 minutes ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

You forgot the $500 HD 7970? That's how we got into this huge price inflation. AMD put out a so-so card and charged flagship prices for something that Nvidia was then able to beat with its 560 Ti successor (the GTX 680). And so Nvidia could overcharge $500 for that level of performance too. HD 7970 and GTX 680 basically doubled gpu prices.

that being said. Using a inflation calculator. 300 USD in 1999 = 430 USD today....

So inflation has played a crucial role.

 

Also, 7970 released in 2012? That was right before the near second financial crisis took place in mid 2013. People were bracing themselves as the aftershock after the "cleanup" from the 2008 crisis was starting to show up. I bet shipping costs and a few other expenses shot up.

[Bhav]

I paid £350 back in the day for an Athlon 4400+

 

So no AMDs prices weren't better when they were ahead. Same back when ATI were separate, those Radeon 9700 and 9800 pros weren't cheap.

 

However yes 1080s seem crazy expensive, especially considering that lower nm processes are meant to cost less to manufacture.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Prysin said:

that being said. Using a inflation calculator. 300 USD in 1999 = 430 USD today....

So inflation has played a crucial role.

 

Also, 7970 released in 2012? That was right before the near second financial crisis took place in mid 2013. People were bracing themselves as the aftershock after the "cleanup" from the 2008 crisis was starting to show up. I bet shipping costs and a few other expenses shot up.

300 dollars in 1999 is completely irrelevant to what the person you quoted said.

 

Like I said earlier, AMD has increased the price of their fastest single GPU card by 117%, and inflation only accounts for 13% of that price increase.

The 7970 was released in late 2011, not mid 2013. Even if you blame the economy, the price of high end cards have just kept increasing since then, despite the economy getting better.

 

If the highest end card in 1999 actually was 300 dollars, then that means prices were going down (when you take inflation into account) for a very long time (since the 4870 was also 300 USD), and then after that AMD and other manufacturers started increasing prices at a very high rate.

[Mira Yurizaki]

5 hours ago, Bhav said:

However yes 1080s seem crazy expensive, especially considering that lower nm processes are meant to cost less to manufacture.

That probably would've been the case if everything went smoothly and we weren't stuck on 28nm for three generations. Also, smaller nodes may also introduce more defects because the tolerance is tighter. 

[Prysin]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

300 dollars in 1999 is completely irrelevant to what the person you quoted said.

 

Like I said earlier, AMD has increased the price of their fastest single GPU card by 117%, and inflation only accounts for 13% of that price increase.

The 7970 was released in late 2011, not mid 2013. Even if you blame the economy, the price of high end cards have just kept increasing since then, despite the economy getting better.

 

If the highest end card in 1999 actually was 300 dollars, then that means prices were going down (when you take inflation into account) for a very long time (since the 4870 was also 300 USD), and then after that AMD and other manufacturers started increasing prices at a very high rate.

before claiming wild price increases, you must also compare the price then, and now, with consumer purchasing power relative to the price of the product and how much of a % increase that is.

I dont have the data, nor can i be arsed to run the numbers for you. But long story short. Yes prices did rise, but peoples ability to afford these products may not have changed all that much.

 

Its like comparing gas prices from the 1970s to today.... Gas was like what? 1 NOK/L or so back then? now its 13-15 NOK/L, then again, the pay you get per hour has increased from around 7-10 NOK, to 200+ NOK

[BrightCandle]

Inflation would matter a whole lot more if we were talking about periods of 10 years where the price will genuinely have doubled, but we aren't we are talking 1-2 years where the impact really is much smaller as inflation is just a few percent.

[LAwLz]

5 hours ago, Prysin said:

before claiming wild price increases, you must also compare the price then, and now, with consumer purchasing power relative to the price of the product and how much of a % increase that is.

I dont have the data, nor can i be arsed to run the numbers for you. But long story short. Yes prices did rise, but peoples ability to afford these products may not have changed all that much.

 

Its like comparing gas prices from the 1970s to today.... Gas was like what? 1 NOK/L or so back then? now its 13-15 NOK/L, then again, the pay you get per hour has increased from around 7-10 NOK, to 200+ NOK

You can defend AMD all you want, but I really doubt the CPI has DOUBLED since 2009.

 

Oh wouldn't you know it, it's only a 12% difference from 2009 to 2016, and yet we have seen prices more than double.

You can't argue against math. Graphics cards have gotten more expensive. A lot more expensive.

 

We are not talking about a period of 50 years here. We are talking about a period of 7 years, and prices more than doubled during that period. A "mid-range" card today costs as much as the highest end one did 7 years ago. This price increase is way too fast to blame it on something like CPI, and it is also more-or-less isolated to the consumer electronics market. It's not like the price of food and clothes rose more than 100% as well, right?

[Prysin]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

You can defend AMD all you want, but I really doubt the CPI has DOUBLED since 2009.

 

Oh wouldn't you know it, it's only a 12% difference from 2009 to 2016, and yet we have seen prices more than double.

You can't argue against math. Graphics cards have gotten more expensive. A lot more expensive.

 

We are not talking about a period of 50 years here. We are talking about a period of 7 years, and prices more than doubled during that period. A "mid-range" card today costs as much as the highest end one did 7 years ago. This price increase is way too fast to blame it on something like CPI, and it is also more-or-less isolated to the consumer electronics market. It's not like the price of food and clothes rose more than 100% as well, right?

i am not claiming AMD, Nvidia or Intel hasnt increased prices just because they can. I have simply stated that BEFORE accusations is made, and wild numbers are being thrown around. One must account for Inflation and CPI.... and there is probably some taxes/VAT playing part too. Especially here in EU.

[Ryoutarou97]

On 6/4/2016 at 9:38 PM, Sky Daddy said:

RX 480 ~980 performance  for $200

Profile picture checks out.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Prysin said:

i am not claiming AMD, Nvidia or Intel hasnt increased prices just because they can. I have simply stated that BEFORE accusations is made, and wild numbers are being thrown around. One must account for Inflation and CPI.... and there is probably some taxes/VAT playing part too. Especially here in EU.

I am not throwing around "wild" numbers. I have done the math. I have accounted for inflation and CPI. I have taken taxes into consideration (all my numbers are without any taxes applied).

Prices have gone up a lot. It's that simple. It's across the board as well. AMD, Nvidia and Intel are all guilty of it, as well as Samsung and other consumer electronics manufacturers. I don't know why it is happening, but we have been seeing the price of consumer electronics go up each generation.

[Prysin]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

I am not throwing around "wild" numbers. I have done the math. I have accounted for inflation and CPI. I have taken taxes into consideration (all my numbers are without any taxes applied).

Prices have gone up a lot. It's that simple. It's across the board as well. AMD, Nvidia and Intel are all guilty of it, as well as Samsung and other consumer electronics manufacturers. I don't know why it is happening, but we have been seeing the price of consumer electronics go up each generation.

it wouldnt surprise me if it has to do with increased shipping prices due to uncertainty about piracy. Most of the big fabs are in southeast asia. Some of the big assembly plants are in Canada, Germany and the US. This means that stuff have to travel past the pirate infested waters of north-east africa.

 

Also, wouldnt surprise me if the rampant money sink that is the new UV light system we need for 10nm is also part of this. Atleast for Samsung and Intel which has been dumping billions of dollars into this venture alongside TSMC.

 

And then, there is "pollution taxes". Lately, the Chinese gov has started to crack insanely hard down on emissions. Fines and taxes are devastating if you do not meet the criterias. So i can imagine whatever comes from that part will drive costs up too.

 

 

[LAwLz]

25 minutes ago, Prysin said:

it wouldnt surprise me if it has to do with increased shipping prices due to uncertainty about piracy. Most of the big fabs are in southeast asia. Some of the big assembly plants are in Canada, Germany and the US. This means that stuff have to travel past the pirate infested waters of north-east africa.

 

Also, wouldnt surprise me if the rampant money sink that is the new UV light system we need for 10nm is also part of this. Atleast for Samsung and Intel which has been dumping billions of dollars into this venture alongside TSMC.

 

And then, there is "pollution taxes". Lately, the Chinese gov has started to crack insanely hard down on emissions. Fines and taxes are devastating if you do not meet the criterias. So i can imagine whatever comes from that part will drive costs up too.

That sounds VERY unlikely since we have not seen the same kind of price increase in other markets which also ship from Asia. If it was because of shipments being robbed then we should have seen the price in gold (China and Australia is by far the biggest producers of gold in the world). Besides, those shipments usually go over the pacific Ocean, not down and around Africa.

 

The price increase came before the new UV light system. It started in 2012. That was when we moved from 40nm to 28nm. Higher R&D seems like a pretty likely cause though.

 

The pollution tax is not the cause, because the pollution tax did not exist in 2012.  I really doubt that tax would cause prices to double even if it was around back then.

 

On top of all that, we have not seen a price increase for things like NAND and RAM. Those two in particular have dropped like a rock in terms of price.

 

[Yoinkerman]

Yes of course they are

 

Think about it.  Most of these companies are making continually more revenue and profit year after year.  Where does that come from?

[Rodinski]

If you have been a PC gamer as long as I have, there was only one time when PC's were dirt cheap. The price, for the most part, has actually gone down (since their introduction) . You can get a rig that can play all modern games for around 800 dollars no problem. Laptop prices have gotten relatively cheaper as well (but much more locked down). 

 

It may seem more expensive as, right now, there is a large push towards VR and 4K displays. A 200 dollar gpu can easily handle 1080p while a 1000 gpu may struggle at 4K. 

 

We used to play at 1024x768. It would cost us nearly 2 grand to play the modern games at those relations. Now, an IGPU is all you need for that. 

[Yoinkerman]

Dude I played games at 1600x1200x75/90 where were you in the crt age?

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

I've been noticing that too. When I bought my 550ti, it was around $140 new. Now the similarly classed 950 starts at $180 at least.