Gun Tragedy in Detroit.

[SebastianThorn]

About a week ago, a young girl from Detroit found a gun under her grandmother's bed. She ended up killing herself when investigating the gun.

 

What is everyone's opinion on the gun laws in USA? Are they too loose in comparison to other countries? 

 

The reason I'm creating this thread is because I'm having a discussion in school soon, and would like to hear some different opinions.

 

Original article: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michigan-girl-finds-gun-grandma-pillow-detroit-dies-shooting/

[laminutederire]

20 minutes ago, SebastianThorn said:

About a week ago, a young girl from Detroit found a gun under her grandmother's bed. She ended up killing herself when investigating the gun.

 

What is everyone's opinion on the gun laws in USA? Are they too loose in comparison to other countries? 

 

The reason I'm creating this thread is because I'm having a discussion in school soon, and would like to hear some different opinions.

 

Original article: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michigan-girl-finds-gun-grandma-pillow-detroit-dies-shooting/

There was a thread on that recently.

Mostly opinions were that some americans were arguing that guns are a necessary right, for self defense purposes and because "the founding fathers said so".

Non american people and the other american were arguing that banning gins would reduce the mortality rate drastically.

We ended up at a stalemate, because it all came down to opinions on how you see life. Pro guns were thinking that the global order depend on everyone to protect themselves and that gun accident were caused by idiots and that education would be the key. Those against were thinking that there should be an authority beyond one person to ensure the order, and also that guns deaths were a feat of idiocy as well but that this idiocy was implied by education.

[Sauron]

That situation could have happened regardless of regulation really, most countries don't straight up ban firearms in general but rather have strict rules on who can purchase them, when, and what calibers and weapon types are allowed. This tragedy was caused by negligence on the part of the owner of the gun, who could have obtained one legally even if it had been regulated more strictly.

 

As for US gun regulation in general, I think it's ridiculous how easy it is for anyone to get their hands on a firearm and even pretty heavy duty ones. In my opinion, only small caliber, non-automatic weapons should be sold for self-defence and potentially hunting rifles (as much as I'm not a fan of hunting as a sport). Anything else should perhaps be available for use inside firing ranges (with proper security) but not purchaseable otherwise. Anyone wanting to buy a gun should have a specific license and training to make sure all legally sold weapons are easily trackable and cannot be stockpiled. Of course a handgun is still dangerous, but it has a much lower mass murder potential than an assault rifle.

[Bhav]

What if everyone had the right to bear bombs? Would all the accidental bomb explosions be blamed on human stupidity rather than the fact that everyone is allowed to have bombs?

[Praesi]

The USA should take care of its Warcontroll first.

[xentropa]

I dont want to outright ban guns, but I support strict criminal, psychological background checks, mandatory training, and insurance for firearms.

 

At this rate, we'll kill ourselves before we overthrow a tyrannical gubermint.

[SebastianThorn]

Thanks for all the answers!

 

[v-raze]

2 hours ago, Bhav said:

What if everyone had the right to bear bombs? Would all the accidental bomb explosions be blamed on human stupidity rather than the fact that everyone is allowed to have bombs?

We kind of already do have the right to own explosives... we all certainly have the means to produce them. They are just not made easy to purchase, and laws restricting them vary based on the state and county. So most people are not inclined to purchase explosives unless they require them as a tool for doing work, or it's the 4th of July. Guns, on the other hand, are easily available for purchase and made to look like something everyone should own. It's got less to do with what we're allowed to own than what is marketed to us as something we need and made readily available for purchase.

[Sauron]

3 hours ago, Bhav said:

What if everyone had the right to bear bombs? Would all the accidental bomb explosions be blamed on human stupidity rather than the fact that everyone is allowed to have bombs?

You KNOW it would

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, v-raze said:

We kind of already do have the right to own explosives... we all certainly have the means to produce them. They are just not made easy to purchase, and laws restricting them vary based on the state and county. So most people are not inclined to purchase explosives unless they require them as a tool for doing work, or it's the 4th of July. Guns, on the other hand, are easily available for purchase and made to look like something everyone should own. It's got less to do with what we're allowed to own than what is marketed to us as something we need and made readily available for purchase.

well technically you can make a pretty decent bomb from a laptop battery

[v-raze]

Just now, Sauron said:

well technically you can make a pretty decent bomb from a laptop battery

Or from bleach and potassium chloride.

 

Or from common fertilizer.

 

Or from any number of other household chemicals... you get the point.

[Quinnbeast]

/ edit - Minor correction based on Mug's info below...

 

No discussion on US gun law is even remotely worthwhile if you don't first acknowledge the basic statistics. Between 2001 and 2011, there was average of 11,385 gun-related deaths firearm homicides. If you look specifically at terrorism related deaths over the same period, you get an average of 517 including 2001, and an average of 31 if you don't. Compare the same murder/homicide stats to any other western country (regardless of using a gun or not), and you've basically summarized the opinion of the average external viewpoint without having to argue anything. If the argument is that - well - US citizens are just straight-up determined to kill each other and that they would simply pick another weapon, why waste money on guns and ammo? Just use a hammer.

 

The oft-quoted right to bear arms seems to largely ignore the context that is was forged from: the need for armed militia groups to provide support to local law enforcement, resistance to oppression and defense of the state. The notion of self-defense in the 1700s bares little resemblance to what we know today, which is typically a personal concern, and not one of your land and wider community. So it begs the question: which forces are being repelled? Whose land is being ransacked by 'invaders'? When was the last time you saw a redcoat?

 

The notion of owning a weapon - which is designed purely to kill or maim another person or creature - for "self-defense" purposes, is exactly the same kind of mentality as classing a first-strike nuclear weapon system as "a deterrent". The latter is a phrase that most (if not all) nuclear-capable countries like to throw about in order to make the most deadly weapon mankind has created sound, more, y'know... cozy. In both cases, it's a concept determined by the state in order to make a weapon sound less harmful. Most importantly of all - there's nothing like a mass shooting to keep profits up in relevant circles. Manufacture and sale of firearms is a 15 billion dollar-a-year business; I wonder how many high level pro-gun campaigners just so happen to have shares in some of these firms?

 

http://www.newsmax.com/Finance/StreetTalk/gun-stocks-shooting-profits/2015/12/03/id/704450/

[Mug]

9 hours ago, Quinnbeast said:

11,385 gun-related deaths

That low? In 2013 there were 33,636 gun-related deaths.

 

Quote

Firearm—In 2013, 33,636 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States (Tables 18 and 19), accounting for 17.4% of all injury deaths in that year.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm (P10)

[PlayStation 2]

And this is why you get something called a safe, so shit like this doesn't happen.

[Mug]

1 minute ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

And this is why you get something called a safe, so shit like this doesn't happen.

Then why aren't there laws mandating that people with guns store them in safes?

imo it's all fair enough to say "well, that's why you educate these people" or "why do we give guns to the crazies" but unless you make laws to combat this, you'll be in exactly the same place 10 years from now.

[PlayStation 2]

Just now, Mug said:

Then why aren't there laws mandating that people with guns store them in safes?

imo it's all fair enough to say "well, that's why you educate these people" or "why do we give guns to the crazies" but unless you make laws to combat this, you'll be in exactly the same place 10 years from now.

I dunno, maybe it's because we're too busy letting the media place the blame on stupid shit?

[Quinnbeast]

20 minutes ago, Mug said:

That low? In 2013 there were 33,636 gun-related deaths.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm (P10)

 

From your own link - 

Firearm homicides

• Number of deaths: 11,208

[Mug]

15 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

I dunno, maybe it's because we're too busy letting the media place the blame on stupid shit?

That's just homicides though - not gun-related deaths, which is what you quoted for in your post.

[Quinnbeast]

24 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

And this is why you get something called a safe, so shit like this doesn't happen.

 

Or, don't own a gun. That's surely at least as effective, if not considerably more so.

[BuckGup]

Nah feller we need them guns in merica so we can over run da government with more guns!! No really if we wanted to stop all this ISP, NSA, FBI stupidity we could easily over throw the government and implement a better one. But at that point anarchy might form and dictatorships so maybe not but if we had a good leader

[Mug]

1 minute ago, SamStrecker said:

Nah feller we need them guns in merica so we can over run da government with more guns!! No really if we wanted to stop all this ISP, NSA, FBI stupidity we could easily over throw the government and implement a better one. But at that point anarchy might form and dictatorships so maybe not but if we had a good leader

Yes - the collective bargaining power of labour is much stronger than weaponry

[handymanshandle]

I'm more so on the libertarian side of things if there was like a democratic socialist party with libertarian leanings (the closest thing that I could get to that is probably the Green Party)...

 

I don't care if people want to have guns. You know, like shit just be sure you're not going to be a dipshit with them.

More guns won't solve the issue of gun violence I think it'd make it worse. But hey if that's your thing go right at it. 
 

Seriously gun theft is something that needs to be a big deal because that's what most violent crimes are committed with is stolen guns. Sometimes you might have straw-man purchases or a purchase of gun from a private seller who didn't do a background check. I don't think those kinds of sales/purchases make up the majority of where criminals get their weapons. Usually it's from theft of guns from people who didn't keep their gun safely stored away from any possible intruder. 

 

Of course you'll have plenty of people who say that it's just fine to keep your guns out in the open or at least in less secured places. 

 

[Quinnbeast]

15 minutes ago, Mug said:

That's just homicides though - not gun-related deaths, which is what you quoted for in your post.

Ah, gotcha. You're right then, the 11,000 per-year average must in fact be limited to homicides, and not all gun related deaths. So... considerably worse than I thought. Thanks for pointing that out.

[plsno]

16 hours ago, SebastianThorn said:

What is everyone's opinion on the gun laws in USA? Are they too loose in comparison to other countries? 

I'm mostly fine with our current laws. I don't see any reason to care much about the 20th something cause of death in the US.

 

[CrackheadKyle]

18 hours ago, SebastianThorn said:

About a week ago, a young girl from Detroit found a gun under her grandmother's bed. She ended up killing herself when investigating the gun.

 

What is everyone's opinion on the gun laws in USA? Are they too loose in comparison to other countries? 

 

The reason I'm creating this thread is because I'm having a discussion in school soon, and would like to hear some different opinions.

 

Original article: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michigan-girl-finds-gun-grandma-pillow-detroit-dies-shooting/

I think perhaps safety laws are a little stricter and it's harder to accidentally blow your brains out but also I think Gun Safety should be thought more and that accident of children playing with guns are a much more serious crime but don't take away guns tho because that will just make the average citizen less likely to be protected and it will increase organized crime and people just importing guns and shooting up innocent people. Think about it in Texas Gun accidents and shooting actually aren't very common and that is because in order to get a gun license you must pass a strict gun safety test